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09-29-2016, 12:29 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It's about that post's (#17) last word; but let's not write it again!
Ahh, I see. OK.

09-29-2016, 01:18 PM - 1 Like   #32
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There has been a lot of good answers in this thread. One thing that hasn't been mentioned (or I have missed it), but several have touched on it; the smaller size. Yes, the body of the mirrorless is smaller, but the lenses are often not. For APS-C, that is. Going to FF you can even find that some of the zooms for mirrorless are bigger than their DSLR counterparts. A big lens on a small body sounds unbalanced to me... On the other hand, going to m43 you'll see that the lenses shrink quite considerably. There mirrorless makes sense IMO.

Why I prefer DSLRs are primarily the optical viewfinder and the better battery life. Until they can squeeze a lot more clicks out of their batteries I don't care how good the EVFs have become (or not).

And if I should ever go mirrorless it would probably be a m43 system for travelling. At home I don't care that much about size and weight. And I always have a Ricoh GR in my pocket anyway
09-29-2016, 01:28 PM - 1 Like   #33
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The k01 is designed for live view full time and uses the larger k3ii/645z/k-1 battery which may make up for the extra current draw vs trying to use live view full time on a ks2 for example.

As far as apsc mirrorless I have a Samsung (in the marketplace) and the 20-50 lens on it is quite small. They also make some relatively fast and compact primes. Faster zooms are closer in size to DA lenses but pretty light nevertheless. Adapting manual or f/FA lenses is also fun. I've never owned the k-01, but I think of the Samsung as an updated manual focus version for k mount lenses (20mp vs 16, lighter, tilting screen, etc. ). But my favorite mirrorless to date is the Panasonic GX7. It is now my dads camera. I got his k3 and three lenses, he got my gx7 and five lenses.
09-29-2016, 02:21 PM - 1 Like   #34
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For me, as someone who needs reading glasses, it's all about the viewfinder.

Once the diopter adjustment is set, I can forget the glasses (which I do more often than I care to admit).

09-29-2016, 02:39 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by savoche Quote
There has been a lot of good answers in this thread. One thing that hasn't been mentioned (or I have missed it), but several have touched on it; the smaller size. Yes, the body of the mirrorless is smaller, but the lenses are often not. For APS-C, that is. Going to FF you can even find that some of the zooms for mirrorless are bigger than their DSLR counterparts. A big lens on a small body sounds unbalanced to me... On the other hand, going to m43 you'll see that the lenses shrink quite considerably. There mirrorless makes sense IMO.
Yes, several people have touched on smaller size, and that is where these conversations tend to bog down. I believe discussion of viewfinder is much more important. I am willing to believe that there are people who cannot handle an EVF - I am not like that. I chose my K-30 instead of the K-01 specifically because of the viewfinder, or the latter's lack thereof to be more specific - I would have had to attach a Hoodman over its LCD, and that would have made it even more bulky. However, partly as a result of my experience with my Q-7, and partly as a result of my limited experience with LV on my K-30, a K-02 with an EVF would be very attractive to me, because an EVF essentially adjusts lighting to what the image will capture instead of having the lighting actually there, so you have a much better understanding of what the final image will actually look like {I understand that you get some info from a histogram, and as a math major I understand histograms as well as the next dude, but I still get better info quicker from an actual picture - which is said to be worth a thousand words}
09-29-2016, 03:21 PM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by madison_wi_gal Quote
I looked for a sticky thread but did not find one, so I hope this question is not out of place.

What is advantage, if any, of mirrored vs mirrorless? It look like the Flagship cameras have mirrors so maybe "better" but the mirrorless ones exist for some reason. Why? e.g. If I can find a great deal on a K-01 body should I snap it up?
The "flagship" cameras from Fujifilm, Olympus and Sony don't have mirrors. Mirrors aren't better, just older. The companies that had big success in years past with DSLR technology (Canon, Nikon, Pentax) are continuing to flog what made them successful, and the rest are going mirrorless.

In general, the advantages of a mirrorless system are: less size and weight, lower cost to produce, no mirror slap, exposure preview in the EVF, light gain-up in the EVF, and information overlays in the EVF, and manual focusing aids (magnification, peaking, etc.) in the EVF.

In general, the advantages of a DSLR system are: It's well known and established, and many people learned photography on it. Also, the optical viewfinder is still the best if you do much shooting out in the sun.

As for the K-01: I owned one of those, and in some ways I liked it. It's capable of good image quality. Unfortunately, it has no EVF, and the LCD on the back was problematic, for me, when shooting outdoors in bright sunlight. It's also not as small as some other mirrorless cameras, since it has room in the body for a mirror box, even though it doesn't actually contain one. The K-01 does continue to have some fans, and there's nothing wrong with picking one up at bargain price, but IMHO it doesn't show off the major advantages of a mirrorless system.

I eventually sold the K-01. My Pentax Q7 is a keeper, though!
09-29-2016, 05:12 PM - 1 Like   #37
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I looked at the K-01 but the lack of view finder is no buy for me. A K-S1 cheap would be a better deal.
I have a full Q7 kit and its a great camera, no EVF but its the size and fun factor that make it a keeper for me. For travel I now use a Olympus E-M10 m43 kit on my trail bike.
When in my car I take my K5 and around town the Q7, so many choices.
09-29-2016, 07:03 PM - 1 Like   #38
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Talking of cost, maybe mirrorless cost less to manufacture but when looking at the price in stores, the savings don't go in our pockets... In many cases, mirrorless cost significantly more to buy than a DSLR of similar capabilities.

09-29-2016, 07:28 PM - 1 Like   #39
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EVF does not always mirror exposure. That depends on the camera. The LAG and the lack of dynamic range in the EVF vs. an OVF makes the EVF less appealing to me but the size benefit is compelling on m43 at least.
09-29-2016, 07:28 PM - 1 Like   #40
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After thinking about this and FINALLY looking at several pictures of an K-01 from many angles, it finally dawned on me (yes, I apparently am very slow sometimes) that not only does it not have an EVF but it doesn't even have any optical viewfinder at all, it looks like a gigantic yellow version of my Sony Cybershot DSC-S750. Not to slam the Sony, it is a fine P&S and I think if I give it to my tech-challenged sister she will think it is just dandy (assuming we figure out a way to get the images off the Memory Stick Pro Duo in there onto her iPad or into the Cloooooud) but I like to look through the OV (and I guess I could live with an EVF). So I am really glad that I lost my eBay snipe of the K-01/40mm XS kit because I would have felt really stupid looking at the back of the camera and wondering what was missing. That said, I would have kept the 40 and gotten rid of the K-01, so maybe it would not have been a complete wash. I have a line on a 40 on Craigslist, so not all is lost.
09-29-2016, 07:30 PM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by madison_wi_gal Quote
After thinking about this and FINALLY looking at several pictures of an K-01 from many angles, it finally dawned on me (yes, I apparently am very slow sometimes) that not only does it not have an EVF but it doesn't even have any optical viewfinder at all, it looks like a gigantic yellow version of my Sony Cybershot DSC-S750. Not to slam the Sony, it is a fine P&S and I think if I give it to my tech-challenged sister she will think it is just dandy (assuming we figure out a way to get the images off the Memory Stick Pro Duo in there onto her iPad or into the Cloooooud) but I like to look through the OV (and I guess I could live with an EVF). So I am really glad that I lost my eBay snipe of the K-01/40mm XS kit because I would have felt really stupid looking at the back of the camera and wondering what was missing. That said, I would have kept the 40 and gotten rid of the K-01, so maybe it would not have been a complete wash. I have a line on a 40 on Craigslist, so not all is lost.
OK this made me nearly do a spit take. Good luck on the 40, glad it worked out so far.
09-29-2016, 07:37 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
OK this made me nearly do a spit take. Good luck on the 40, glad it worked out so far.
Hopefully the guy will answer my last email about a meeting place. He is selling a K5 body (<8000 SC), 2 50's and the 40. He says there is nothing wrong, just doesn't use them. $115 for the 40 so that's pretty good assuming it's in good shape. With my luck lately it'll be missing the lens cap.
09-29-2016, 07:41 PM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by madison_wi_gal Quote
Hopefully the guy will answer my last email about a meeting place. He is selling a K5 body (<8000 SC), 2 50's and the 40. He says there is nothing wrong, just doesn't use them. $115 for the 40 so that's pretty good assuming it's in good shape. With my luck lately it'll be missing the lens cap.
My DA 40 was purchased sans cap. I found one on B&H or Adorama for $15 the next day. It's normally more but just watch prices. Some fuji film canister caps are supposed to fit as an alternative. Personally I need to just order a plastic pinch cap the right size and be done with it. My DA 15 never travels with the metal cap anymore why should my DA 40 be different!
09-29-2016, 07:46 PM - 1 Like   #44
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My eBay 10-17 arrived today sans cap. Just as pictured. I never asked the guy so sucks to be me. $49 to put a real Pentax cap on it. Uh, no. Bought $5 push-on 60mm cap from B&H and a few other things to make shipping free. The Tam 18-250 also no cap. As pictured. 62mm Tam cap from Amazon fixed that right up. I need to look at the darn pictures more carefully, or at least not binge shop at 3 am.
09-29-2016, 10:03 PM - 1 Like   #45
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There is a very valid reason for Pentax Nikon and Canon to continue to develop their DSLR product lines: decades of existing lenses that can still be used on them. For many longtime photogs, the ability to keep using the same lenses that they have owned for ten, twenty, thirty years or more on a modern digital camera can be an incredibly important factor in their choice of a camera system.

However, I personally feel that by keeping a foot in the past, the major manufacturers can be hesitant to adopt some of the newer technologies and further develop their product lines into new directions - leaving the door open for other manufacturers like Sony, Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic to do so. Are Pentax, Nikon and Canon wrong in continuing DSLR products? Of course not. There will likely always be customers who value DSLR products.

Now, the K-01 was a great idea that bridged both worlds, in that it was mirrorless but was designed to accept DSLR lenses. Pentax could have made the K-01 slimmer, sure, but that would necessitate that they produce an entirely new line of lenses to work with the shorter flange distance - which may have not been feasible financially for the company, or not necessary strategically. Its use of DSLR lenses was integral to the success of the K-01 as a Pentax product - it gave it the highest chance of acceptance by the customer base. I enjoyed my K-01 for a time, but I admit sold it. I would have liked to see Pentax continue development along the K-01 lines, but honestly it was a niche product that was unlikely to sway the traditional DSLR photographer, and the priority of the company had to be their full frame camera.

As has been stated here already, mirrorless users are usually interested in smaller cameras that do not skimp on image quality. Cameras such as the Olympus OMD-EM1 or the Sony a7 series are closer in size to our old film SLRs, which is great. I am more swayed by size and ergonomics, all other things being equal with respect to performance. Also, I personally have not had issues with battery life in my EM1, despite what others have said here about the extra battery power needed for the EVF (however, I do have the battery grip attached). I'm not sure that purchasing a K-01 would really provide you with the typical advantages of a mirrorless system, since it really isn't much smaller than your existing camera. But it is fun, and it has a great look, and that counts for something, too.
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