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11-05-2016, 12:53 AM   #1
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Live view - the next generation

With the K-1 and it's flippy screen, I use Live View much more than I used to, so I obviously think more about how it could be improved, for my photography at least.

There's a lot of debate about touch screens - some love them, some hate them - and a higher resolution would probably be a net improvement for critical focussing, but I can live with it the way it is.

One change I would welcome though, is a single button to toggle between all the information and no information. I find the histogram and focus point and electronic levels of the 'no information' display vital, as are focus peaking and over/under-exposure blinkies - ( the full information display isn't really needed if you operate, as I do, mostly in user modes where you know what you've got set up) - but even this reduced information can get in the way of composing the image - even things like focus peaking can look like there is stronger light than there is on the in-focus areas of the scene, and the levels and histogram can mask things on the edge of the frame that you'd not have included if you'd seen them - so wouldn't it be nice to be able to toggle everything (with the possible exception of the grid) on and off with a single button push?

If this IS possible, I'd be delighted to hear - otherwise I'd be interested in other people's thoughts on this. Apologies. as always, if it's been covered elsewhere - I do try to search, but you don't always get the right search terms to find find stuff.

11-05-2016, 01:09 AM   #2
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Good idea. I fully agree. I also use Live view mode of the K1 than before, especially because ES is only available in LV mode. However, LV mode is not so elaborate as with EVF cameras. One of the things that really bother me is that there is no way with switch display views without having this big mirror slap. For instance, I may want to use LV mode continuously because I want ES, but if I leave LV On, it stay On all the time and suck battery power, and if I switch LV Off manually, there is this mirror slap and so on... Why can't there be a power saving mode so that mirror stays as it is and LV switches On and Off electronically so that I have LV On instantly when I need to make the shot and Off otherwise. On EVF cameras, the sensor and viewfinder display goes off when not in use. I do bird photos with ES On to avoid long lens vibrations and I use IR remote at back of camera, so I have to leave LV On for 2 hours... everything gets hot (sensor, lcd display). I'd appreciate if LV had an electronic standby mode (user programmable) to avoid overheating and save battery power.
11-05-2016, 04:25 AM   #3
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A large chunk of the power being used is in keeping the mirror up. If the screen were off and you thought that it was in a minimum power state then you would be find your batteries flat in no time. Why is the mirror moving a problem in your eyes? It's part of the usual shutter release, so it's not harming the camera unduly. Holding it up for very long periods would do more damage, in fact...
11-05-2016, 04:36 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
A large chunk of the power being used is in keeping the mirror up. If the screen were off and you thought that it was in a minimum power state then you would be find your batteries flat in no time. Why is the mirror moving a problem in your eyes? It's part of the usual shutter release, so it's not harming the camera unduly. Holding it up for very long periods would do more damage, in fact...
back in the day, when Pentax brought out the the 67ii, there was a low power Mup mechanism - a mechanical lock of sorts, I think - I'd certainly welcome some sort of mechanical mirror up lock that didn't involve battery use - I don't see why (from the standpoint of ignorance) it would be difficult to implement

11-05-2016, 09:34 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
A large chunk of the power being used is in keeping the mirror up.
Sounds weird, do you have a source for that?
11-05-2016, 11:34 AM   #6
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so... back to the original question...
11-05-2016, 12:11 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
Why is the mirror moving a problem in your eyes?
I find it produces noise and it takes some time to switch from OVF to LV. For the noise, I'm afraid that it may be an issue when in a blind, but maybe it is only my perception because the noise isn't audible at a certain distance from the camera.

---------- Post added 05-11-16 at 20:12 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
If the screen were off and you thought that it was in a minimum power state then you would be find your batteries flat in no time.
Good point, of interest. I'd be curious how much power it takes.
11-06-2016, 03:53 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
Sounds weird, do you have a source for that?
Keeping a solenoid energised and held against a spring will be quite a high current drain...in the order of 100s of mA. Similar in magnitude to a backlit LCD and much larger than the rest of the electronics put together. Source? Knowledge...so I suppose books, teachers and stuff. Plus my second hobby after photography is electronics.

11-06-2016, 04:49 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
Keeping a solenoid energised and held against a spring will be quite a high current drain...in the order of 100s of mA. Similar in magnitude to a backlit LCD and much larger than the rest of the electronics put together. Source? Knowledge...so I suppose books, teachers and stuff. Plus my second hobby after photography is electronics.
Sounds resonable except that there are no springs to fight, and they probably don't use a solenoid either. My guess is that they use a "normal" electric motor that turn gears. The question is if they need to keep the motor energized to hold the mirror up, or if the mechanism is self locking which of course would be preferable..
11-06-2016, 07:21 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
Sounds resonable except that there are no springs to fight, and they probably don't use a solenoid either. My guess is that they use a "normal" electric motor that turn gears.
Source?
11-06-2016, 11:51 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
Source?
Well, they mention it at Challengers | PENTAX K-1 Special site | RICOH IMAGING

Here is a small qoute about the mirror mechanism:
"This action would be regulated by a mechanism consisting of a motor, cams and levers.
What makes this mechanism so special is its remarkable position control accuracy since the lever is used to support the pivot, and the lack of positioning errors since no spring is used."

They mention a motor, and no springs. Also if you google for dslr mirror mechanism you get a lot of pictures including gears, mirrors and motors. So my guess is that Pentax is using something similar.
11-06-2016, 12:13 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
Keeping a solenoid energised and held against a spring will be quite a high current drain...in the order of 100s of mA. Similar in magnitude to a backlit LCD and much larger than the rest of the electronics put together. Source? Knowledge...so I suppose books, teachers and stuff. Plus my second hobby after photography is electronics.
I don't how the mirror is kept up, but removing the battery and the mirror goes down, so, I think it correct that some power is consumed for keeping the mirror up. So, keeping the mirror up and switching the sensor Off and the LCD Off would not save all the power budget of liveview but it would save a portion of it.
11-10-2016, 08:18 AM   #13
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I guess its also the reason that we are warned so vigorously to have a well charged battery in place before attempting any sensor cleaning.
11-10-2016, 02:12 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
Sounds weird, do you have a source for that?
Conventional wisdom going back to the first electronically controlled SLRs in the late 1970s, I suspect. Holding the mirror up and shutter open for long time exposures was a sure recipe for short battery life on those cameras, something that has not changed today, at least for some cameras. That being said, the big power draw for live view is simply running the screen.


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