[Poit]

So, I've read here several times that Pentax / Ricoh read here and listen to suggestions.

Here's a video with some great ideas (skip the background and start at 15 minutes). I don't always agree with Tony Northrup, but his thinking here makes a lot of sense.

Imagine:

- A proper touch interface;
- USB charging;
- Proper cloud connectivity;
- Wireless firmware updates;
- OPEN APPS (imagine, imagine, imagine: people develop their OWN apps for the camera...Pentax cameras would FLY off the shelf);
- Direct app connections; AND
- INVEST IN SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT

Like I said, I don't always agree with Tony, but PENTAX / RICOH if you're scratching your heads, here's some great ideas to invest in for the future:

You Tube

You Tube

[Auzzie-Phoenix]

seriously? this again? someone just posted this video last month.

[Adam]

Lol. Start with the Theta- it has an open API and there was recently an app contest with lots of cool ideas soon to be announced!

[Poit]

seriously? this again? someone just posted this video last month.

Sorry, I didn't realise it had been posted before.

it can't hurt if Pentax gets some good ideas.

Someone get out of bed the wrong side today? lol

[jpzk]

So, I've read here several times that Pentax / Ricoh read here and listen to suggestions.

Here's a video with some great ideas (skip the background and start at 15 minutes). I don't always agree with Tony Northrup, but his thinking here makes a lot of sense.

Imagine:

- A proper touch interface;
- USB charging;
- Proper cloud connectivity;
- Wireless firmware updates;
- OPEN APPS (imagine, imagine, imagine: people develop their OWN apps for the camera...Pentax cameras would FLY off the shelf);
- Direct app connections; AND
- INVEST IN SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT

Like I said, I don't always agree with Tony, but PENTAX / RICOH if you're scratching your heads, here's some great ideas to invest in for the future:

The DEATH of the Consumer Camera - YouTube

Seems like one would be luckier with the latest smartphones!

[GUB]

Ummmm how does any of that make a better image?.
All just white noise.
Pentax - don't take your eye off the basics - optics - sensor / image processing and in body image stabilization and it's offshoots.

[Roadrunnerdeluxe]

Ummmm how does any of that make a better image?.
All just white noise.
Pentax - don't take your eye off the basics - optics - sensor / image processing and in body image stabilization and it's offshoots.

I fully agree! For gadget bloated cameras with mediocre imaging capabilities, Canon has you covered.

[RobA_Oz]

I fully agree! For gadget bloated cameras with mediocre imaging capabilities, Canon has you covered.

Except that they're finally catching up in the sensor department.

Ignoring the pros and cons of competing systems, Pentax sales have a long way to go before they have even 10% of the DSLR market. While they're clearly making money from the MF, APS-C and now the 35FF systems, larger scale gives you the ability to do more, and "more" doesn't just mean more gadgets, it means more and better lenses, flash guns, video and all the rest.

So, while only one or two of the things cited has appeal to me, the incremental costs of most of them are not great, and if there is a good business case for any of them, in terms of market share, then they should go for them. We still hear opposition to the inclusion of GPS and/or Wifi in the K-3ii and K-1, on the grounds that they're considered frivolous, which is really just saying "I don't use it so it shouldn't exist". Thank you, but I use both, especially the GPS, so how does that work? On the other hand, there is a good case for a future model having a built-in flashgun (as an aside, I say again: what's wrong with a couple of high-intensity LEDs?), and I say "go for it, Ricoh" even though I haven't used any of mine for years.

Enough of the reflexive nay-saying, folks. There's a big world wanting to buy things like the OP's suggestions, and fortunately, a dog-in-the-manger display here isn't going to make much of an impact with the decision-makers in Ricoh, whereas positive suggestions just might.

[automorphism]

Imagine:

- A proper touch interface;
- USB charging;
- Proper cloud connectivity;
- Wireless firmware updates;
- OPEN APPS (imagine, imagine, imagine: people develop their OWN apps for the camera...Pentax cameras would FLY off the shelf);
- Direct app connections; AND
- INVEST IN SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT

Personally I'm happy my camera doesn't have most of these features. Lots of them sound like they would drain the battery faster. Even if that were not the case, such as with the advent of new battery technology, a more complicated OS brings more complicated bugs, slower startup times, and a variety of gimmicks that probably won't improve your photography.

I can imagine searching "neutral gradient simulator" in a hypothetical app store: there'd be 20 different apps, half of them wouldn't work and crash the camera, and another half would display an advertisement for Hoya. No thanks.

[geomez]

- A proper touch interface;

Does little with my face pressed up against the camera.

- USB charging;

Theta. GR. Hell, I have an 8 year old Sanyo Xacti camera that charges via USB. Convenient, but won't "save" consumer photography.

- Proper cloud connectivity;

Requires mobile data via SIM, aka more monthly recurring costs. Or install Android on the camera. That's been done before and no games were changed.

- Wireless firmware updates;

Same as above and above that. Convenient but how often do you need to upgrade firmware? Three times if you're lucky during the life of your camera? That's not an appealing enough selling point.

- OPEN APPS (imagine, imagine, imagine: people develop their OWN apps for the camera...Pentax cameras would FLY off the shelf);

I'd love that but I'm not normal. Don't forget that people can develope their own apps for Android, iOS, Windows, OSX, Linux, etc. but less than 1% of consumers do. I imagine a similar number of photographers would do the same.

- Direct app connections;

More of the same.

- INVEST IN SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT

Ok. Always needed.



I think these things would be useful but I don't think these are the reasons people aren't buying cameras. They aren't buying cameras because they have phones. They don't need both. I need both. I'm willing to spend thousands of dollars to own both plus all the added baggage and weight of carrying both. But it's not worth it to them. I don't think that the level of investment required to develop these features would sway them. Their iPhone camera takes good enough pics for them today, and the iPhone that comes out next year will do it even better (with added digital bokeh! ).

[Poit]

Ignoring the pros and cons of competing systems, Pentax sales have a long way to go before they have even 10% of the DSLR market. While they're clearly making money from the MF, APS-C and now the 35FF systems, larger scale gives you the ability to do more, and "more" doesn't just mean more gadgets, it means more and better lenses, flash guns, video and all the rest.

So, while only one or two of the things cited has appeal to me, the incremental costs of most of them are not great, and if there is a good business case for any of them, in terms of market share, then they should go for them. We still hear opposition to the inclusion of GPS and/or Wifi in the K-3ii and K-1, on the grounds that they're considered frivolous, which is really just saying "I don't use it so it shouldn't exist". Thank you, but I use both, especially the GPS, so how does that work? On the other hand, there is a good case for a future model having a built-in flashgun (as an aside, I say again: what's wrong with a couple of high-intensity LEDs?), and I say "go for it, Ricoh" even though I haven't used any of mine for years.

Enough of the reflexive nay-saying, folks. There's a big world wanting to buy things like the OP's suggestions, and fortunately, a dog-in-the-manger display here isn't going to make much of an impact with the decision-makers in Ricoh, whereas positive suggestions just might.

Thanks Rob. One can only hope the folk over at Pentax are a little less defensive.

And they aren't MY suggestions guys, they're Northrup's (which Ii happen to agree with). His arguments that many of these things will appeal to the younger generation of new enthusiasts are totally correct.

Watch the bloody video before bashing me...

[Kunzite]

Just because it's a Youtube video doesn't make it correct; we should not abandon critical thinking.

First, what is the purpose of that video? To correctly identify why the camera sales declined so much and offer solutions? No; Tony Northrup doesn't even attempt to identify the reasons for that - which means, he cannot offer solutions (except maybe by sheer luck). What we have is a typical click gathering video: say something outrageous ("The DEATH of the consumer camera", lol), offer some opinions which would seems reasonable to most viewers. That's all.

Second... one point is obviously true: software matters; but that's so generic that it doesn't help at all. The other points, well, their effect is much overrated (considering that some are implemented on current cameras - where's the dramatic effect?), they're useless or even dangerous.

Third, the entire premise that cameras should become like smartphones is wrong. Smartphones are not cameras, but multi-purpose communication and entertainment devices. Cameras are cameras. You don't need another device to post nonsense on Facebook, because you already have one in your pocket. You don't need another device whose battery life might reach 2 days if you're doing nothing with it. The war (if there is one) should not be played on smartphone's strengths, but on cameras'.

By the way, Apple just announced it's new MacBook Pro without a SD card... people aren't happy. Would you be happy if Pentax does it? If you're forced to use Cloud Whatever to transfer images from the 20cm apart camera and PC?

[Rondec]

I would like to see Pentax continue to upgrade their firmwares to truly add features after cameras are released. Things like video improvements, other little tweaks that could be added. The only thing I can remember with the K-1 was the adding of the electronic shutter recently. That sort of thing is nice and particularly if a camera is going to sell for 2+ years, then it seems beneficial to update it periodically if there are things that can be added.

The whole wi fi thing and app thing just aren't game changers. With regard to apps, I can't think of any that I would want to run on my camera. If my K-1 had ios or droid software running on it, I guess I could put something like snapseed on it, but otherwise it feels like a bit of a waste. In general, I really don't want to be downloading a firmware that someone on the internet cobbled together. Current firmware from Pentax does what it is supposed to -- takes photos without freezing up. That's the important thing.

I have wi-fi that works decently on the K-1, but I don't honestly use it because (a) the files are too big to easily be sent by wifi (a USB 3 card reader is much faster) and (b) I don't shoot with my camera as a point and shoot. 99 percent of the images I shoot I will do some tweaking to -- a little contrast added, a slight crop, whatever -- and therefore uploading images directly from the camera to Flickr or Facebook is a no-go. Even if there were better editing tools in the camera, the idea of editing the images on a screen that is smaller than my smart phone is not an enjoyable thought.

If folks use their cameras as point and shoots with jpeg straight out of camera, than some of these things might be more useful. My guess is that would be true for more entry level cameras, but certainly upper end gear it won't be as useful for.

I still doubt that any of these things are game changers and would make Pentax cameras "fly off the shelf."

[Nicolas06]

I fully agree! For gadget bloated cameras with mediocre imaging capabilities, Canon has you covered.

Bahsing easy and after all Canon doesn't care: they have most of the pro market but how does that description is anywhere near accurate? The nearest to the OP description are some smartphone with bigger sensor (up to 1" ?) and some mirrorless. Surely not Canon DSLRs.

[Nicolas06]

I would like to see Pentax continue to upgrade their firmwares to truly add features after cameras are released. Things like video improvements, other little tweaks that could be added. The only thing I can remember with the K-1 was the adding of the electronic shutter recently. That sort of thing is nice and particularly if a camera is going to sell for 2+ years, then it seems beneficial to update it periodically if there are things that can be added.

Agreed but the Pentax position is that new features go to new camera, or eventually in case of an issue to the latest available. And yes electronic shutter is to fix an issue.

With regard to apps, I can't think of any that I would want to run on my camera. If my K-1 had ios or droid software running on it, I guess I could put something like snapseed on it, but otherwise it feels like a bit of a waste. In general, I really don't want to be downloading a firmware that someone on the internet cobbled together. Current firmware from Pentax does what it is supposed to -- takes photos without freezing up. That's the important thing.

While I don't care for firmware and that no game changer, honestly, I guess Pentax could sign firmware and the camera could check the signature before accepting it. That could go with a checksum to ensure nothing is correupted. I understand Pentax release firmware update only if there an issue really and they don't want people to update they firmware and brick their camera by error so I understand the by purpose complex flow to update it.

Some apps could certainly bring features the camera lacks and that some user care of:
- automatic focus stacking
- working in body panorama software
- widder HDR controls
- good video capabilities (SR back, AF in video on all cameras...)
- instant sharing over social networks
- improved pixel shift :why not 8 shots or 32 shots, why not improved/custom algorithms to resolve subject movement issues?
- better automated modes... I can't get why I can't say for example that keep 1/1000s at least except if you go past iso 1600, then ensure at least 1/500s and so on. The automatic modes are really dumber than they could be.. Even in sport mode, the camera will select slow shutter speed even if iso is not an issue.

The problem is how to get it done right? This isn't just putting android on the camera. It is managing it well, linking it to camera control, hardware devices and so on, having real software company making real software, testing it, and Pentax approving it before it can be release so their no terrible application that destroy the user experience.

I am not even sure that Canon could make a truely enjoyable echosystem. The only possibility, really, seems to be to develop/buy/adapt some key application yourself. There isn't simply the developpers echosystem to get quality apps for a camera company, even more for a niche player like Pentax.

I have wi-fi that works decently on the K-1, but I don't honestly use it because (a) the files are too big to easily be sent by wifi (a USB 3 card reader is much faster) and (b) I don't shoot with my camera as a point and shoot. 99 percent of the images I shoot I will do some tweaking to -- a little contrast added, a slight crop, whatever -- and therefore uploading images directly from the camera to Flickr or Facebook is a no-go. Even if there were better editing tools in the camera, the idea of editing the images on a screen that is smaller than my smart phone is not an enjoyable thought.

If folks use their cameras as point and shoots with jpeg straight out of camera, than some of these things might be more useful. My guess is that would be true for more entry level cameras, but certainly upper end gear it won't be as useful for.

I am like you exactly. But this isn't the case of all people, including pro. One of the feature of top of line pro camera is ethernet connection. So then you can have dozen photographers shooting the olympics or a football match and then a back office with a few person with big screen curating the photos they'll want to keep, instantly do some editing as necessary and send them over to the medias (newpapers, social media, TVs...).

Wifi is obvisouly slow, but more and more photographers work with a pro camera on one side and a tablet on the other side to show the picture to the clients, do some photo editng and send it to their agency. And the agency itself may decide what to do with the photo in term of editing/post processing.

I still doubt that any of these things are game changers and would make Pentax cameras "fly off the shelf."

They will not, except if Pentax invest to drastically improve their user interface on top of the matching hardware to allow advanced custom apps. But this may be a 100 million dollar project over the course of 3 years without clear return on investment.

Smartphones have good OS because apple and google, software experts are each spending billions each year on it and can leverage the cost over hundred millions of consumers.

Marketing and awareness as well as reputation of a good camera manufacturer for pro is lacking to Pentax theses days and that what they need the most if they want to sell more. Not better products.