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11-22-2016, 07:43 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by MBT74 Quote
Hahaha! Yeah you're right. Small kids would be right up there for tracking difficulty. I've done some sports shooting. Mainly cricket and tennis. I didn't mean that Pentax couldn't do it.
Most people are quite close to small kids. The difficulty is keeping them stable in the frame so AF can work at all and pressing the shutter release without moving the camera too much. I'm convinced a lot of folks blame AF because they aren' skilled at doing these two things. It's not really an AF problem, it's an operator error problem. Just because your kid is running around does' mean you don't have to do triangle bracing with your elbow and control your body movements. Also many people are trying to get kid images in very poor right.

It's just so sad seeing people blame their camera when their lack of success has nothing to do with the camera.

K-3
FA 50 ƒ2, 800 ISO 1/50 in the middle of a cartwheel... terrible basement lighting.. any softness is motion blur so what kind of movement do you need a Canon for again?


Anyone who says they can't get images of their kids because of Pentax AF, I'm not believing them until they show me they know the difference between bad AF and motion blur. Especially those using non SR cameras.

There are four possible issues.
1. Subject motion blur. (The cameras AF system cannot help if your shutter speed is too slow.)
2. Camera motion Blur. (AF cannot help if the camera is moving more than SR can correct.)
3. Poor tracking technique, focus on something other than subject. (NO tracking system in the world will know exactly what you are trying to focus on. You have to get it locked in the right place,)
4. Camera AF can't keep up. (Often this has to do with 3, your tracking motion didn't keep the subject in the frame, and the camera had to re-aquire the subject.)

For people having trouble tracking their kid, there's at least a 75% chance they are confusing camera error with operator error.
The fact that you have a kid and own a camera doesn't make you an expert at figuring out what went wrong when you don't get the image you wanted.


Last edited by normhead; 11-22-2016 at 07:59 AM.
11-22-2016, 03:52 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Look at minute 22:45
Thanks, Biz-engineer, I'm bookmarking this for the future whenever someone raves on about how if they swap brands they'll suddenly be better at AF! :-D
11-22-2016, 10:40 PM   #18
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Am I the only one that wants to know why TO is playing football with women?

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Doesn't sound like you've done much sports photography, MBT.


Here's Terrell Owens ducking and weaving through a defence, with the K-30 and Tammy 70-200.


As I said in another thread:


"My right thumb is constantly pressed down, the index finger is free to click, click, click, as needed. If I need to pan across an obstacle, the thumb comes up, and comes down again when out the other side and AF has not locked onto the tree or sign or whatever in between. If I press the AF button when the selected point is over the background or a spectator instead of the subject, that's *my* fault, not the camera's.

I'd love to be actually beside someone claiming to have trouble with action photography.

Settings and technique and practice are paramount for anyone who thinks it would be easy to shoot for Sports Illustrated. And those three things don't cost a cent."


11-23-2016, 12:28 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by svassh Quote
Am I the only one that wants to know why TO is playing football with women?
For the sweet, sweet coin, Svassh! Is there ever any other reason? :-)

It was a charity event. Touch rules, so he couldn't power through defenders, he put on an incredible display of evasion that afternoon. Lots of side steps and doubling back - a treat to watch, but a bitch to keep a focus point on.

And to top it off, he had a stint at quarterback and *threw * a long touchdown pass. 😀

11-23-2016, 01:17 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by aaacb Quote
There are at least two very long threads with sports shots showing many sports played at various levels. I am only an amateur but I also post every now and then.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/172-pentax-k-3/242969-sports-images-k-3-a.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/275291-sports-p...le-images.html

Either way, I think you are overlooking the problem of photographing small children when you say that football or hockey are some of the toughest subjects to track
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/115-pentax-k-5/115277-k-5-sports-photography.html

My showcase set
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjUSxg4F

So yes it can be done. It is simply mostly easier with a D5 or 1Dx ii, but not cheaper.
11-23-2016, 01:43 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by aaacb Quote
Either way, I think you are overlooking the problem of photographing small children when you say that football or hockey are some of the toughest subjects to track
You manage shooting sports, and you manage shooting small kids. Now, try shooting small kids doing sports!
11-23-2016, 02:36 AM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by deus ursus Quote
You manage shooting sports, and you manage shooting small kids. Now, try shooting small kids doing sports!
(Laughs).

I know you're joking, but of course adults move much faster.

Part of it is about skills they've yet to acquire, too.

Little kids' football games here in Australia can look like a giant rugby scrum that doesn't go anywhere.

Umpires award a free kick constantly just to get the game moving!

11-24-2016, 10:41 AM   #23
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I was at the river shooting eagles yesterday for seven hours and the guy next to me for the last couple was shooting the Canon 1D X with the 800mm lens. I asked him about his auto focus and keeper rate when shooting eagles and the K-1 and DA560 I was shooting with was doing just as good.

He was a semi pro shooter, he shoots NY Giant football games for news papers in the area so I would think he knew what he was doing and I am just a beginner so I felt pretty good with the performance I was getting.

Watching little kids play sports is like watching a school of fish, I can't imagine what it's like trying to shoot that.

11-24-2016, 11:14 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
I was at the river shooting eagles yesterday for seven hours and the guy next to me for the last couple was shooting the Canon 1D X with the 800mm lens. I asked him about his auto focus and keeper rate when shooting eagles and the K-1 and DA560 I was shooting with was doing just as good.

He was a semi pro shooter, he shoots NY Giant football games for news papers in the area so I would think he knew what he was doing and I am just a beginner so I felt pretty good with the performance I was getting.

Watching little kids play sports is like watching a school of fish, I can't imagine what it's like trying to shoot that.
For the most part, most of us who shoot beside those guys find the same thing. Sometimes I get the best shot, sometimes they do. I seriously have issues with folks going on about "you have to have this AF or that lens" or whatever. What you have to be able to do is use what you have. 8 years ago I was using a Sigma 70-300. I stopped using it when I realized I was being limited by the limitations of the lens. It took me about 5 years to out grow that lens. I began taking pictures where the resolution of the lens was affecting my IQ.SO many folks think they need to start with the latest and greatest. I'm kind of the opposite, learn to make the most of cheaper glass, and when you get better at shooting, you'll know how to use it when you buy better. And the most expensive glass and AF, IMHO it's not even worth owning unless someone is paying you. Better to start low and understand what you have before you move on, than to buy top of the line and never really learn to use it.
11-24-2016, 11:29 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
Watching little kids play sports is like watching a school of fish, I can't imagine what it's like trying to shoot that.
I took lots of pictures of little kids back when my daughters {now both twenty-somethings} were little. I was using MF much of that time. I have never been a fan of "subject isolation", so my method was very basic - instead of my then-usual dependance on Kodachrome 25, I got a reasonably high-speed film, set shutter speed at something like 1/250 {my experience was that this speed was enough to "stop" virtually all relevant activity from the film pov}, and let DOF encompass as much of the likely field-of-activity as possible.

added: this mindset is why I believe the K-70 is a step in exactly the right direction for parents who want to capture indoor sports but blanch at the $$$$ cost of a constant f/2.8 lens they may never use after this season.

Last edited by reh321; 11-24-2016 at 11:32 AM. Reason: added thought.
11-24-2016, 10:05 PM - 1 Like   #26
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My brother works for a TV station that sponsors a local road race every Thanksgiving in Manchester CT. He has decent access but is there mostly to get the TV coverage out and shoot some video for the web site. These shots were taken in between those "real" jobs, with his bright red K-r and a cheap Tamron 70-300, cloudy day.

Pictures: The 80th running of the Manchester Road Race | FOX 61
11-25-2016, 01:05 AM - 1 Like   #27
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I think what is really interesting is if you go into the member galleries you can actually see the type of images people are getting. One man named Franc has some amazing shots of birds in flight with incredible, Incredible sharp detail that he shot with the 50-300 zoom!!!


In a way, the K1 is very complex with all it choices and settings. It takes practice shooting in different situations to see how to get the best from the camera. Even just knowing when to change selections from face detect, to spot, to sel. And if you're on continuous, whether to hold low, med, or high? People don't have any experience using the camera, and then they slam it out of ignorance.


When I learned 40 years ago, we didn't have any of this. The first thing I had to do when I got the camera was to learn how do I shut everything off. I can work a manual camera, and read a light meter. Then I learned the features on it. But my god, the people today want a high priced instamatic, with a beep that will tell them when the composition is balanced... If any of them had to pay for film and development and enlargements, they wouldn't be shooting so hap hazardly. I also had a speed winder, but you learned to do small bursts, when it was necessary or you would be out of film in no time. Oh yeah, and I had to focus the camera while I was using the auto winder at the same time, that would probably give them a nervous breakdown LOL.
11-25-2016, 03:22 AM - 1 Like   #28
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Kid photography is almost impossible with the latest equipment.

(who can afford the latest equipment if you've got kids?)
11-25-2016, 05:55 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
My brother works for a TV station that sponsors a local road race every Thanksgiving in Manchester CT. He has decent access but is there mostly to get the TV coverage out and shoot some video for the web site. These shots were taken in between those "real" jobs, with his bright red K-r and a cheap Tamron 70-300, cloudy day.

Pictures: The 80th running of the Manchester Road Race | FOX 61
That looks like a hoot, where do we sign up?
11-25-2016, 07:51 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Most people are quite close to small kids. The difficulty is keeping them stable in the frame so AF can work at all and pressing the shutter release without moving the camera too much. I'm convinced a lot of folks blame AF because they aren' skilled at doing these two things. It's not really an AF problem, it's an operator error problem. Just because your kid is running around does' mean you don't have to do triangle bracing with your elbow and control your body movements. Also many people are trying to get kid images in very poor right.
You did a good job indeed. Kids' action shoots are tricky.
I believe shooting BIF is just as demanding ( if not more so ) as taking images of kids doing spot.
My fast actions shots are all done with either DA200mm or A*300mm

AF with DA*200mm
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/6-pentax-dslr-discussion/328184-bif-da200...-cropping.html

MF with A*300mmF4
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/12-post-your-photos/58761-heron-behaviour...300mmf4-2.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/109519-shor...00m-prime.html

Over all I am more comfortable with my MF than with AF

Last edited by danielchtong; 11-25-2016 at 08:52 PM.
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