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11-27-2016, 05:59 AM   #31

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QuoteOriginally posted by JimBrennan Quote
When I learned 40 years ago, we didn't have any of this. The first thing I had to do when I got the camera was to learn how do I shut everything off. I can work a manual camera, and read a light meter. Then I learned the features on it. But my god, the people today want a high priced instamatic, with a beep that will tell them when the composition is balanced... If any of them had to pay for film and development and enlargements, they wouldn't be shooting so hap hazardly. I also had a speed winder, but you learned to do small bursts, when it was necessary or you would be out of film in no time. Oh yeah, and I had to focus the camera while I was using the auto winder at the same time, that would probably give them a nervous breakdown LOL.
There 2-3 main difference to me between that era and now:

- Most people knowing nothing about photography can get sharp image without much effort. they fail when this is a difficult scene but people failed before too. Much more in fact.
- People are not afraid anymore to shoot many time because photos are virtually free. Before you'd be quite limited by the price, so you couldn't train that much and you wouldn't try nearly as much.
- Gear performance is now much better. With latest sensor performance, you can typically get with consumer grade gear today what was difficult to get with top of the line very expensive pro gear back in time. I can get with K3 and 55-300 what required a 600 f/4 before.

As for photographers, you assume they want to have the difficulty, they want to fail, they want it to be hard, to be part of an elite. What many want is a great result, not just spend hours struggling to improve technique. Many people have buzy life and pro need to always deliver. The more the gear can do you don't have to do, the better. That allow you to concentrate on other things.

11-27-2016, 06:13 AM   #32

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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I'm still bemused by posts saying it can't be done.
I don't get it.
I'm an amateur casually pointing my handheld K-1 with a Tamron 70-200 (not some expensive sports lens) at a runner.
I guess people are thinking of subject moving more eratically, faster and of wider appertures.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
"My right thumb is constantly pressed down, the index finger is free to click, click, click, as needed. If I need to pan across an obstacle, the thumb comes up, and comes down again when out the other side and AF has not locked onto the tree or sign or whatever in between. If I press the AF button when the selected point is over the background or a spectator instead of the subject, that's *my* fault, not the camera's.
You are assuming your camera can accurately AF if you properly select the focus point and track for it. But you are still assuming the camera can properly AF. Why not ? And basically it mean that you don't trust the camera to change the AF point by itself as necessary.

Then try again with a manual focus, you'd also have to handle the focus yourself, of course. And this couldn't be the camera fault if that failed, isn't it? Still you are now using a camera that does it for you.

Tomorrow you may get a camera that would still get the right shoot even if you didn't perfectly follow the subject, if you didn't stop AF if there was an obstacle and so on. Once that day come, it will become the camera fault if the subject is not in focus, even if you didn't track it properly.

What I want to say, is all of this is relative. It is legitimate to want things that just works. Camera are more and more like that, and there nothing wrong with it.
11-27-2016, 04:23 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
You are assuming your camera can accurately AF if you properly select the focus point and track for it. But you are still assuming the camera can properly AF.

See for yourself in my photos, Nicolas, and in all the photos in the sports threads.

That's what we do.

If you don't, I assume you haven't shot much action in your life, so it's funny hearing you dispense advice to others.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Why not ? And basically it mean that you don't trust the camera to change the AF point by itself as necessary..

Perhaps you should stick with an iPhone for action, Nicolas, if you feel you can't do that.

No system will absolve you of what a wildlife or sports photographer has to do with a moving subject - pan.

Anyone who thinks they can become a wedding photographer without practice is wrong, anyone who thinks they can just do what David Bergmann does for Sports Illustrated is wrong.

The Nikon or Canon full frame systems only cover part of the APS-C viewfinder, just like Pentax - if you do not track, it cannot help you, and the more erratic the subject is moving, the worse it will be. See the diagram.

How do I shoot erratic subjects? By widening the focal length, sacrificing pixels for the ability to keep the AF point smoothly over the zig zagging subject (like Terrell Owens) with minor movement.

*We* control our camera focus settings and track the subject, and all brands work the same way.

This is from a book I own called 'The Nikon Autofocus System' by Mike Hagen.

Please tell me how its description of shooting action on Nikon is different from how I've advised you on Pentax?

Because you are shooting football players who are running, be sure to keep the focus servo set at AF-C in conjunction with a continuous high framerate. As the play unfolds, track the subject with AF by pressing the AF-ON button (or press the shutter release halfway) then fully press the shutter button release to take a burst of photographs at the peak of action ... if you want to photograph a specific player, maybe the quarterback, set Focus Tracking with lock-on [that's the K-3 or K-1's setting of Tracking] to Long.

... if you can shoot from a position where you don't have a lot of background interference, use a dynamic area AF field like d51 or d21 ... If you are shooting from a lower position at courtside, d51 could get you into trouble when the sensor field crosses past one of the line judges or ball boys.

... for jumping pits, if you can get down to the pit, try setting up your camera on a mini-pod low to the ground. Then prefocus your lens, set it to manual focus, and trigger the shutter with a remote or cable release.

... try to time the release of the shutter so it coincides with the peak of the action, such as the top of a jump when the dancer is still. This will help reduce the motion blur from longer shutter speeds.

Pan with the motion whenever possible. Roll your finger over the shutter button; don't stab at it, or you'll get motion blur from the camera movement. Also, hold your breath while you shoot for maximum stability. Take a burst of shots, and one of them will probably be sharp."

Last edited by clackers; 11-27-2016 at 04:44 PM.
11-28-2016, 03:59 PM - 2 Likes   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by MBT74 Quote
I think the true test would be team sports like football or hockey where you're trying to maintain and track focus on a subject that is quickly changing direction amongst many other objects. Not saying that it can't be done with Pentax, but subjects with an easily calculated tracking path certainly makes the task easier.

I've been using a K3 for low light concert photography for ages and it works very well.

I have been using My Pentax K-30 for youth Ice hockey for the last 3 years. I have a sigma 70-200 F2.8 and I get some keepers. This one is shot through the glass behind the goalie.

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11-28-2016, 05:33 PM - 1 Like   #35

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These are with my K3. Iuse it for everything and I win some and I lose some. I do get tempted to switch brands and then I see these old shots and and change my mind.

DA 18-250mm

NHRA Drags
by John Rudolph, on Flickr

NHRA Drags
by John Rudolph, on Flickr

DA* 50-135mm

Sprint Boat Racing
by John Rudolph, on Flickr
12-06-2016, 04:57 PM   #36

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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
No system will absolve you of what a wildlife or sports photographer has to do with a moving subject - pan.
You know that some camera have decent AF coverage at least:

And the feature to select the right AF point automatically isn't that new.

We now have drones that take photos all by themselves. Pro photographers already are in far far lower demand these day than 20-30 years ago despite the fact we use more and more images.

Reality is that in 10 years, a drone may get better shoot than a pro and that it will be 100% automated. The system will track, pan, select the subject all by itself... And the worse will be it will look much better than what a trained pro would achieve.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 12-06-2016 at 05:07 PM.
12-07-2016, 01:35 PM   #37

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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
it will look much better than what a trained pro would achieve.
I know some Pros, they are using drones as part of their tool collection....just stunning angles for stills as opposed to most drone footage is video, they are essential for real estate photography.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Reality is that in 10 years
If you look back at whats happened in the last ten years...the REALITY will be UNreal, if we all survive.
12-15-2016, 11:34 PM   #38

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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
You know that some camera have decent AF coverage at least:
Interesting frames. There are many points, covering almost the entire frame. A common issue that all camera struggle with is to distinguish the subject from the foreground. In this example (motorsport), the AF point cover the ground in front of the car. Focusing on the nearest area would focus on the ground in front of the car instead of focusing on the car itself, unless there is a priority give to AF point in the center of the frame. If the car should be focus on and locked on in the center of the frame, that would be achieved by photographer being able to pan and keep the car in the center of the frame for the time of first focus, we all have the same problem with AF when the AF points are all in the center area of the frame. I am much more interested to have optical stabilization to help keeping the subject in the center while panning , than to have 400+ AF point across the frame with sensor based stabilization, I believe this Sony AF is a essentially a marketing feature. I can only conclude that camera auto-focus is the difficult know-how that only mastered by two brands of cameras.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 12-16-2016 at 12:07 PM.
12-17-2016, 08:55 PM   #39
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My DA* 60-250 does pretty darn good on my K-3.

These were from my first full day out with this lens. I LOVE it!!!
12-17-2016, 09:44 PM   #40

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Nice shots. Looks like you used effective methods as I've seen other Pentax AF users do.
12-19-2016, 01:00 AM   #41
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The best I did in AF was a DA200

Majority of the time for BIF I use MF and a A*300mmF4

---------- Post added 12-19-2016 at 03:10 AM ----------

More recently AF exercise with DA200

Long shots from a DA200 mm - Pentax Forum
12-19-2016, 01:16 AM   #42
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I don't seem to be having too many issues shooting fast moving kids!
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