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08-01-2008, 12:20 AM   #16
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Hi Karn,

Add one more vote for the 18-250 - Pentax or Tamron = same lens (though Pentax version may have better coatings?). I've got the Pentax and it has been nearly perma-bonded to my K10D since the day I bought it.
I have the K20D and Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 mated together as well. And that combo is as Forrest Gump would say "like peas and carrots".

Might I also suggest some reading material to help you wrap your brain around things...
First, get the Magic Lantern Guide for whichever body you buy. It's basically a detailed operators manual for your camera that actually makes sense of all the buttons and dials and menus.
Then, buy both Understanding Exposure and Understanding Shutter Speed by Bryan Peterson - and read them and do the exercises. You'll come away knowing what your camera can do and what you can accomplish as a photographer so much better as a result.

08-01-2008, 04:23 AM   #17
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I would go for the K20D if you are decided on Pentax and the first twin lens kit is a no-braner IMO amongst the 3 setups you stated.
08-01-2008, 06:46 AM   #18
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After alot of reading these past hours and looking at samples of what some different lenses can perform I'm pretty sure I'll go with the
Tamron Macro SP AF28-75mm F/2.8 XR Di LD, it looks like a very nice allaround lens for the things I enjoy taking shots of(atleast from what I've seen).

As wideangel and for alot of landscape photography and such I will then get myself a , I will later this week order a Sigma EX 10-20/4,0-5,6 DC in the near future, together with somekind of cheap telezoom just becuse I want to try it out.

Anyone got some input if this could be a pritty good way to start? I'm mostly making my decision based on what I've seen them done, and I've really liked the results. The 28-75 tamron looks to fill my needs as a everyday lins with good portrait capabilites, decent for everything else and a macro function just to play around with.

/ From a VERY-soon-to-be K20D user!

Last edited by Karn; 08-01-2008 at 07:23 AM.
08-01-2008, 07:19 AM   #19
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It's not want you want to hear, but, you mentioned that weather sealing was very important to you. All the lens options given have no weather sealing on them, so you really need to look at the DA* 16-50.

I know you don't have the budget now, but try your best to stretch it. Makes no sense having a weather sealed body without the weather sealed lens to go with it!

08-01-2008, 08:09 AM   #20
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Hi Karn

I totally agree with Unlocker on this point:

QuoteQuote:
Makes no sense having a weather sealed body without the weather sealed lens to go with it!
Bearing in mind the range of extreme weather environments that I imagine you might invariably encounter outdoors during a typically severe Swedish winter, it surely seems pretty unrealistic and also a false economy to purchase a weather-sealed K20D body and then expect non-weather sealed 3rd party lenses to perform to the same standard ?

When you said:

QuoteQuote:
What made me look into Pentax in the first place was the weather sealing, I plan to use my camera and everything that helps to protect it when doing so is in my opinion a great thing to have. I DO plan to bring the k20d on every ski-trip and mountain hike, so I do rate weather-sealing very highly in that regard.
Naturally this issue would not be such a problem if you were using conventional lenses indoors or outdoors during dry weather conditions, but torrential downpours or freezing sleet are another prospect entirely !

Although I own the Tamron 18-250mm & Sigma 10-20mm lenses and they are indeed excellent products in their own right, I would NEVER DREAM of using either of them in heavy rain or freezing sleet, without adequately protecting them somehow !

Best regards
Richard

Last edited by Confused; 08-01-2008 at 08:17 AM.
08-01-2008, 09:28 AM   #21
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Yeah, it's a good point indeed, I will also invest in a DA* lens probably before the winter hits, I cant do that now tho, so guess I'll have to settle with not beeing able to take it on EVERY trip, just yet ;D
08-01-2008, 11:35 AM   #22
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Just an FYI...

If you go "off-brand" with your lenses and for some odd reason you turn up an IQ (or other) question, "official" Pentax will not be able to help you troubleshoot the issue. They can only help if you have Pentax gear.

Also, I'm quite happy with my 'go to' lens selection. I have other lenses that can be considered exotic and are neat to use, but when it's time to get serious, it's 'go to...' .

Best of success...
08-01-2008, 02:02 PM   #23
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K10D, plus 16-50 and with the money you save, 50-135 as well (lovely lens :-) ) Or if no new K10D's are left, K20D plus 16-50.

The K10D is still great and better than the K200D

08-01-2008, 02:24 PM   #24
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Haha, you guys sure isn't making this easier on me. What a jungle, a fun one none the less.

I will anyway try my best to stretch the budget to a K20D + DA* 16-50 as the first lens for me, if that's just not possible I'll settle with something like the
Tamron 28-75, Sigma 17-70(Starting to become a favorite here) or DA 16-45 or one of the many other lenses that makes for a good starting lens. Chances are I'm gonna be amazed by the quality of the shots anyway, the kitlens would be more than enough for that, but now when I have abit more money to spend I might aswell try to make a step up to something abit better if possible.

Like someone said, you buy a dSLR for having the ability to change lenses anyway. This is just my Starting kit, which is somewhat on a budget I can't really overextend.

Last edited by Karn; 08-01-2008 at 03:16 PM.
08-01-2008, 03:27 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Karn Quote
Haha, you guys sure isn't making this easier on me. What a jungle, a fun one none the less.

I will anyway try my best to stretch the budget to a K20D + DA* 16-50 as the first lens for me, if that's just not possible I'll settle with something like the
Tamron 28-75, Sigma 17-70(Starting to become a favorite here) or DA 16-45 or one of the many other lenses that makes for a good starting lens.
Nothing against the DA* 16-50, but the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 is $300 less and a great lens. So unless you *need* SDM and you *need* a weather sealed lens body why not use that extra $300 for the FA 50 f/1.4 and either the battery grip or a modest flash or extra batteries or memory cards... ?

... and you'll need a gear bag, and should have a decent tripod ...

Last edited by Venturi; 08-01-2008 at 03:30 PM. Reason: MORE STUFF!!
08-01-2008, 05:05 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Venturi Quote
Nothing against the DA* 16-50, but the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 is $300 less and a great lens. So unless you *need* SDM and you *need* a weather sealed lens body why not use that extra $300 for the FA 50 f/1.4 and either the battery grip or a modest flash or extra batteries or memory cards... ?

... and you'll need a gear bag, and should have a decent tripod ...
Yeah, and seems like no matter how I try to squeeze it in it's way too expensive.

I've looked some at the Tamron 17-50 which seems to be a great lens, I've also looked some on both Sigma EX 18-50/2,8 DC Macro and the Sigma 17-70(which seem to be a really nice all-around lens) and I think it's really nice to have a macro function also even if not true macro, just a fun thing to play around with. If I want more zoom I can always buy a cheap tele to give it a try to see how I like that part. I will probably do that anyway.

I'm gonna order it on Monday anyway, all help until then is appreciated. As of now I feel it stands between the following:

Tamron 17-50
Sigma 18-50
Sigma 17-70
SMC-DA 16-45
(Can give the full name of them, but I think you know which lenses I'm talking about)

But it's still anyones game, I've read alot of good things about all four though and is quite certain I'll be a very happy k20d owner no matter which of them I pick.
There is, also, ofc. a pricedifference. If I would to order the Sigma 17-70(cheapest) I could also squeeze in a Tamron AF 70-300/4-5,6 Di or Sigma AF 70-300/4-5.6 DG APO Zoom Macro for example and even if not a super lens it could be a fun thing to have when learning my camera.

Last edited by Karn; 08-01-2008 at 06:21 PM.
08-01-2008, 07:41 PM   #27
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All the advice I have seen so far looks good to me but I am going to go out on a limb and recommend something 180 out.

I think you should go with the K20D and the DA 18-55 II.

Here is my thinking. If you are going to get something like a K20D you are going to get into this in a big way for the long haul. There is always some part of the system that is the weakest part. Yes the K20D can way out resolve the DA 18-55 II but this lens has some things going for it. It is very inexpensive and relatively small. As kit lenses go it is pretty good. Kit lenses are made just for someone starting to use a DSLR. If you get the kit lens you can get some of the other startup things you are going to want to get.

Jumping into a camera like the K20D is a big step and can take some time to get up to speed on. As you do this you can save up for a lens like a DA* 50-135. When you get more money you can then upgrade the DA 18-55 II for a DA* 17-50. The DA 18-55 II is inexpensive enough that you may not mind keeping it as a backup or for when you want a small lens for light traveling. This will give you your weatherproof kit and you will have a good idea the kinds of photos you like so you can get your specialized lenses next.

This syndrome is referred to as LBA and is usually contracted by close contact with a camera like the K20D.

DAZ
08-01-2008, 07:57 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by DAZ Quote
All the advice I have seen so far looks good to me but I am going to go out on a limb and recommend something 180 out.

I think you should go with the K20D and the DA 18-55 II.

Here is my thinking. If you are going to get something like a K20D you are going to get into this in a big way for the long haul. There is always some part of the system that is the weakest part. Yes the K20D can way out resolve the DA 18-55 II but this lens has some things going for it. It is very inexpensive and relatively small. As kit lenses go it is pretty good. Kit lenses are made just for someone starting to use a DSLR. If you get the kit lens you can get some of the other startup things you are going to want to get.

Jumping into a camera like the K20D is a big step and can take some time to get up to speed on. As you do this you can save up for a lens like a DA* 50-135. When you get more money you can then upgrade the DA 18-55 II for a DA* 17-50. The DA 18-55 II is inexpensive enough that you may not mind keeping it as a backup or for when you want a small lens for light traveling. This will give you your weatherproof kit and you will have a good idea the kinds of photos you like so you can get your specialized lenses next.

This syndrome is referred to as LBA and is usually contracted by close contact with a camera like the K20D.

DAZ
Yeah, this new found LBA(without even owning a camera) worries me. I dont even know what LBA means, but I have the feeling it could result in me selling my laptop for a DA* 50-135 or similar.


Anyway, I've pretty much made my mind up, I am not paying for the camera, more getting it as a present. I got a budget and within that budget a K20d + Sigma 17-70 + Tamron 70 - 300 + bag/tripod/uv-lenses etc. is well fitted.
Even if(like I said) I'm 150% sure the kit lens would have made me as happy. This really seems like a very solid package for the type of photography I want to start with. (Which is bassicly abit of everything)

I hope this package will serve me well for starting out. Thanks for all the help
08-01-2008, 08:40 PM   #29
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I canít come up with an argument that trumps OPM (Other Peoples Money). OPM pretty much trumps everything. As to LBA, maybe there are some things better learned when we get older.

DAZ
08-02-2008, 05:07 AM   #30
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Excuse me...

Karn: "Anyway, I've pretty much made my mind up, ... a K20D + Sigma 17-70 + Tamron 70 - 300 + bag/tripod/uv-lenses etc. is well fitted. "

...may I be so presumptuous to offer an alternative opinion?

IMHO: What you are doing is setting yourself up for disappointment and a bad case of LBA (lens buying addiction). The K20D is so good that the subtle flaws of each lens will be highlighted. Initially, you will tell yourself that you are pleased, but as your flaw correcting work arounds fail, doubt will set in. It begins with the wish that the image could be just a little sharper (like Daniel Tong's birds, or Ben's models, or...). You'll tell yourself not to worry... you can use post processing to save it. Nah... that didn't work. And so on... until you cave and get a "Limited" lens.

Want in on a secret? (Pssst... it's all in the glass.) Camera bodies are obsolete the day they hit the market. Good glass, like my M42 1:1.8 55 (1962), is forever.

You picked the K20D because you feel it is the best fit for your purposes. Don't think for a minute you can quench that desire for the 'best' by doing a glass 'cheap out.' A bare bones K110D paired with a DA 40 Ltd or FA 31 Ltd (and good pho-tog's eye) will beat your bag of goodies almost every time.

Anyway... my .02 cent$ is to pair the K20D with a single lens. I suggest the DA 40 Limited which can be acquired for about $275. The DA 40 Ltd is an optical marvel and an expression of technology at its best. Work the lens hard. Learn it to death. Trust me... your results will be dazzling from day one (as opposed to "good").

While you may want it all now, do you really need it now? If you take my suggestion, you will save a ton of money and learn a lot. Over time, as better lens choices emerge, you eye and use habits will tell you when to consider adding to your lens portfolio. LP-A (learn, plan, then act...) beats LBA, every time.

Good luck & shooting...
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