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08-02-2008, 07:11 AM   #31
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Do you have any good gallery with different type of pictures taken with that lens?
Like with all, since I have a hard time understanding all the mumbo jumbo I go with what I've seen the lens preform, if I like that then it's a alternative.

Nothing is dead set, I'm still looking around alot trying to make a decision as good as possible with my very(well..been reading about it for 3-4 days in total, with no past experience) limited lens knowledge.

It's not that I'm worried, I just thought 17-70 + 70-300 was a good choice since it covers alot of ground, and then if I for example find myself using a certain MM more than anything else I could buy a fixed supersharp lens in that area, or something like that. It's hard for me to know how a certain mm like 40mm compares to a only 50mm lens etc. since I've never really used a slr. I don't really know what the good and the bad sides are.

Can't wait for the camera anyhow (especially beeing in one of swedens more beautiful cities at the moment and for about 1-2 more months Några bilder från Visby got some pictures)

Hint: I can afford a kitlens, kitzoom + DA40 Ltd/DA 50 1.4 ;D


Last edited by Karn; 08-02-2008 at 07:57 AM.
08-02-2008, 07:36 AM   #32
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Ever thought about getting one good lens and getting a teleconverter to extend it's range? It's a good cheap way to get some more distance without draining the bank.

I bought a Sigma 1.4 TC about 6 years ago and it sat in my closet for years. I thought about selling it many times. Glad I didn't becuase I just got a Sigma APO 100-300 f/4 and I throw the TC on it and I can really, really reach out there.

Just thought I'd throw the teleconvertor idea out there. I don't know what lens would be best to serve with it, but I'm sure we'll have suggestions here soon.
08-04-2008, 07:50 AM   #33
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Karn, I think I've finally gotten it right and you should copy my kit.

Pentax DA 16-45mm - You will have trouble finding anyone who owns one and doesn't love it. Extra wide and low distortion at 16mm make this a great lens for architectural photos. And the price is amazing right now ($309 at Adorama).

Pentax FA 50mm F/1.4 - Classic photo length, faster than the fastest zoom, better IQ than any zoom. A wonder at the price.

Pentax DA 55-300mm - Better IQ and longer than DA 50-200mm, for not much more money. Better IQ than comparable Sigma and Tamron telezooms, especially wide open. Wider angle and Quick-Shift focus are really nice to have in a telezoom.

This kit should kill your LBA for a very long time.
08-04-2008, 07:58 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by CaymanImaging Quote
Just thought I'd throw the teleconvertor idea out there. I don't know what lens would be best to serve with it, but I'm sure we'll have suggestions here soon.
The test photos I've seen with a TC and Sigma and Tamron 70-300mm and Pentax 55-300mm telezooms were disappointing, i.e. inferior results to no TC and cropped.

08-04-2008, 08:12 AM   #35
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I want to agree in part and disagree in part with audiobomber's post.

I think audiobomber's lens recommendations are pretty good. The 16-45 in particular is one of my favorite lenses. Perhaps it is my very favorite, I'm not sure what I like better. I have the 50 f/1.4 too but the truth is that I don't use it that much, because, well, because I usually prefer to use zooms for what I believe are good reasons. The majority of my shooting does not allow me to zoom with my feet.

Here's the part with which I must respectfully disagree:

QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
This kit should kill your LBA for a very long time.
Not true, I'm afraid. LBA has nothing to do with what you've spent or what you've got. That's why the "A" in LBA is there. This is like saying to an alcoholic that getting really plastered is going to help him stay sober afterwards. :-)

I joke, but actually this is semi-serious. We live in a consumerist culture and camera equipment is hot stuff with a powerful appeal to those of us who are into it. It's important to realize this, because photography can be an expensive hobby - and the urge (the compulsion, if you will) to buy new stuff can actually make you nervous, unhappy, usually because you know you're being tempted to spend money that perhaps should be spent on something else (like, say, food or rent or clothing for your children).

It is not at all a bad idea to spread out your purchases. Buy the body + the 16-45 lens and live with that for a month or two. THEN get the 50 f/1.4 and work with it for a while. THEN get the 55-300 or whatever you want next. This will give you a bit of a release from time to time and will manage LBA more responsibly - which is about all you can do with LBA.

But spreading your purchases out like this actually has another good benefit. As you work with a lens - any lens at all - you learn things that will help you with your next lens purchase. If you buy three lenses all at once, before you've become really knowledgeable about this stuff, then you're making three purchases without really knowing what you want. If you spread your purchases out, on the other hand, your second purchase will be made a bit more knowledgeably than your first, and the third will be even smarter. There's a lot to learn, not just about lenses but about what kind of photography you're going to do, so you aren't going to achieve "expert" status by your third purchase or even your tenth, but you'll know a bit more each time.

Will
08-04-2008, 08:37 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
The test photos I've seen with a TC and Sigma and Tamron 70-300mm and Pentax 55-300mm telezooms were disappointing, i.e. inferior results to no TC and cropped.
I can only speak about the Tamron 1.4x teleconverter and the Tamron 70-300 LD Di. With that combination, results depend on variables that I have never really nailed down. Basically, though, I think if the light's good and I can get a good exposure with a fast shutter and without having to open the lens up all the way, TC + lens is an improvement over lens alone with cropping in post. Or if it's not an "improvement" in image quality, at least, under good conditions, it's not noticeably worse. The TC of course costs me a stop. But I've taken a ton of photos with the converter on and with it off, and I know I've taken photos I was pretty happy with both ways. Unfortunately, the EXIF info doesn't tell me if the teleconverter was used or not. (One of my biggest gripes about using the TC.) The lack of EXIF info makes it hard for me to compare photos in retrospect and I don't have time to do any tests right now. On the other hand, I can tell you that when I review my photos, I can't tell from image quality alone if the TC was used or not, which I guess is worth something.

Will
08-04-2008, 09:50 AM   #37
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My thoughts regarding teleconverters in general based solely on personal observations and some edumicated guestimation. Comments below stated declaratively done so for simplicity, not necessarily on empirical knowledge ...

TC's are akin to adding a filter to the lens. Any time you place additional glass in front or behind the lens you are going to have a decrease in IQ. The absolute best image you can get is with the bare lens. Adding a teleconverter to the back of the lens will amplify any imperfections, softness, etc. inherent in the lens itself proportionately with the TC's multiplier.
Teleconverters steal light, robbing you of 1 or more aperture stops. Focusing becomes more difficult, and image stabilization becomes an issue.
And like filters, the quality of the optics can play a big role in how cleanly the 'finished' image strikes the sensor/film.

I have the Kenko 1.5x TC and I use it very sparingly now. For one, I *rarely* need to reach out past 300mm for a shot. But most importantly I realized after the "wheee factor" wore off a bit that I'm not printing my shots as posters and in most cases I can take a 200mm to 300mm shot, crop it and still get a very good image and/or print.

Again, I'm no expert and at most as far as photographic skill I would call myself a "cerebral novice" - though I have aspirations for greatness.
08-04-2008, 10:10 AM   #38
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The K20D, 16-45mm and 50-135mm would set you up nicely for about $2k

08-04-2008, 10:20 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
I want to agree in part and disagree in part with audiobomber's post.
Here's the part with which I must respectfully disagree:


QuoteQuote:
Originally Posted by audiobomber
This kit should kill your LBA for a very long time.
I meant a year.
In the meanitme he can buy a flash, a tripod, a grip, a Rayonx, some memory cards and god knows what else.

Last edited by audiobomber; 08-04-2008 at 10:31 AM.
08-04-2008, 10:39 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I meant a year.
In the meanitme he can buy a flash, a tripod, a grip, a Rayonx, some memory cards and god knows what else.

Ah, I see!

I've often thought that LBA is just a subform of some other neurosis that could be called "camera gear buying addiction" (CGBA). When I'm not thinking about buying lenses I'm thinking about buying bodies or tripods or brackets or upgrading my software or upgrading my computer to run new software or buying new flash units or getting some more reflectors and umbrellas and light modifiers or wireless triggers or new batteries or new lens caps or revisiting the question of whether I need filters for all my lenses or perhaps acquiring a new focusing screen or....

It's a very dangerous hobby.

Will
08-04-2008, 11:54 AM   #41
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I won't even get into what this LBA has made me do, so we'll skip that part.
Hint: Might have something about buying lenses before even owning a camera.


The good news is that I've learned alot about lenses in the past few days, and tbh the only choice I find hard to make now is what kitlens replacement (or just the kitlens) to go for.

Haven't ordered the camera yet, still very undecided if I should just stick with the kitlens and explore more of what I need. It's hard for me, who never held a dSLR in my life bassicly to know how 45mm compares to 70mm etc. even when looking at shots from it.

I'm also abit scared about buying some Tamron(like the 17-50 2.8 that I've seen some amazing results by) or Sigma since it can be quite hard for a complete novice to figure out what's wrong if I would get a bad lens. I guess this could also happen with pentax, but it still feels more safe in a way. One poster also mentioned that if I would get a 3rd part lens Pentax wouldn't help me if I found something to be wrong with the camera and couldn't figure it out on my own.

If that wouldn't have been the case, I think I would pick a Tamron 17-50 2.8 or Sigma 17-70 over the kitlens or 16-45 any day. I've heard alot of mixed reviews about the 16-45. Some really like it, some find it so-so and some says it's not much of an upgrade over the kitlens.

I'm still 100% confident I'm gonna get a FA 50 1.4, and I might just stick with the kitlens since it's such a steal when comming in a bundle with the camera anyway, and instead in the future when I really know what I want, and know more about testing lenses I might upgrade it to something better. Can always be good having the kitlens laying around anyway if you're going on some dangerous journey to a kids birthday party or something.

Thanks for all the help, I'll let you know what I decided when I've made the order. Like I said in the start, chances are I'm gonna be amazed anyway.
08-04-2008, 12:10 PM   #42
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Don't beat yourself up. Get the kit and play with it then find out from doing that what you really want. Then just keep it as a backup, sell it for 50%-90% of what you paid for it, or keep it on the off chance you upgrade bodies later and sell this one, which is now more attractive to a noob as it comes with a lens.
08-04-2008, 01:32 PM   #43
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Another killer kit would be the pentax/tamron 18-250mm and the DA 35mm limited. Do yourself a favor and don't leave the 18-250 out of your research. You'll find eye-popping sample images all over the web. I opted for the Pentax version based on rumors that the Tamron would have reverse engineered electronics.

And adding a "normal" prime that has macro capability, mmmmmm. Hm, alternatively to the prime, a flash unit may be even more useful. The onboard, in my limted experience, has been useful only in emergencies.

Unless you already know you're not interested in wide angle, I'd try to have at least 18mm on the wide end on the first lens.

And consider a used K10d! What would be more fun, a K20d with one top quality lens, or a K10d with two top lenses?
08-04-2008, 01:57 PM   #44
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Hi again Karn

Re your present indecision:

QuoteQuote:
Haven't ordered the camera yet, still very undecided if I should just stick with the kitlens and explore more of what I need.
It's probably a moot point, but why don't you just purchase the K20D body WITHOUT the kit lens and then put the savings you've made towards buying some better lenses. The underlying logic behind this idea is that the sensor in the K20D is reputedly pretty merciless in revealing and exacerbating the slightest flaw in an average lens.
This wasn't so much of an issue last year when I bought my K10D body complete with Tamron 18-250mm & Sigma 10-20mm wide-zoom, but the K20D is a slightly different proposition. Therefore I suspect you may well be letting yourself in for future disappointment by attaching mediocre lenses to your K20D body at such an early stage in these proceedings ????

Best regards
Richard
08-04-2008, 02:35 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Karn Quote
If that wouldn't have been the case, I think I would pick a Tamron 17-50 2.8 or Sigma 17-70 over the kitlens or 16-45 any day. I've heard alot of mixed reviews about the 16-45. Some really like it, some find it so-so and some says it's not much of an upgrade over the kitlens.
Really? I just did a lot of research on the 16-45mm and that's not what I came away with. Some posts compared it directly with the Sigma and the 16-45 won out in sharpness and overall IQ. Are you sure you haven't confused it with the DA*16-50mm (great lens but a rocky start due to quality control issues). Whoever said the 16-45 is not much of an upgrade over the kit lens is wrong according to the professional reviews online.

Anyway, the 18-55mm is excellent value and a good start for anyone. The 50mm 1.4 is as close to a must-have as you'll find in the Pentax system.

Last edited by audiobomber; 08-04-2008 at 02:41 PM.
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