[clackers]

Here you go. Total numbers are indeed down, but profit up (~9% operating margin) quote from imaging solutions (BIG pdf, p50-51):

Thanks, Clarkey.

It's as I thought.

Despite all the hype, they're not saving the industry, their sales are down too and like all the other brands they're going premium to cover it - charging their shrinking existing customer base more for new product upgrades.

Check out the price of an XT-2, which is not full frame!

---

Last edited by clackers; 12-22-2016 at 08:50 PM.

[lithedreamer]

This is a discussion forum

Well, alternatively we could say: Pentax - give me *an option* to what Fuji currently has in the APS-C space, and take my money.

Especially that 23mm WR F2. All 180g of it.

Look, you can't get this from Pentax for the same reasons you can get it from Fuji: their newer built-for-mirrorless mount helps keep registration distance down on wide-angle lenses, and because the lenses are not built to support in-body image stabilisation, they don't have to cover a space larger than the APS-C frame size, where as Pentax lenses need to cover that size to give us shake reduction, composition adjustment, the astrotracer, etc.

[surfar]

Check out the price of an XT-2, which is not full frame!

And check out the lens prices!...theres a few that are reasonable but plenty that costa a lot.


The cost of that body = a K70 and U$ 950 to spend on glass.....Fuji has 2 card slots and better video but the Pentax also has some nice features.

[Qwntm]

Do you have figures, Qwntm?

As far as I know Fuji sales are down like the rest of the industry, if not worse:

https://www.com-unik.info/2016/12/08/fujifilm-holdings-corp-fujiy-downgraded...-research.html

From the link you posted:


"Moreover, if the demand of certain specific products such as professional-use videotapes and full-color models as well as export shipments to Xerox Corporation continues to be weak, then Fujifim might report lower revenues in the quarters ahead."


and,


"FUJIFILM Holdings Corporation is engaged in the development, production, sales and service of imaging solutions, information solutions and document solutions. The Company’s segments include Imaging Solutions, Information Solutions, Document Solutions and, Corporate expenses and eliminations. The Imaging Solutions segment consists of photo imaging, and optical device and electronic imaging products."


So I'm not really sure your article relates to camera sales. I read it as the videotape and color copier sales are off, and that's dragging the profits of the entire company down.


As for figures, according to the 5 year anniversary and launch presentation of the XP2 in Jan 2016, Fuji (cameras and lenses) have seen a 300% increase in market share in the past 5 years. The full presentation is available on Youtube.


Anecdotally, anyone watching the availability or lack thereof, of certain hot Fuji products knows they are having trouble keeping up with demand. The 16mm, 23mm, 35mm and XT2 have been hard to come by these past few months, sporadically becoming available and then selling out quickly.

---------- Post added 12-23-16 at 12:26 AM ----------

Thanks, Clarkey.

It's as I thought.

Despite all the hype, they're not saving the industry, their sales are down too and like all the other brands they're going premium to cover it - charging their shrinking existing customer base more for new product upgrades.

Check out the price of an XT-2, which is not full frame!

"Sales of X Series were strong, reflecting such factors as new products launching sales expansion in Asian countries"


So how did you get that "the sales are down" from that sentence?

---

Last edited by Qwntm; 12-23-2016 at 12:28 AM.

[clackers]

F


So I'm not really sure your article relates to camera sales. I read it as the videotape and color copier sales are off, and that's dragging the profits of the entire company down.


As for figures, according to the 5 year anniversary and launch presentation of the XP2 in Jan 2016, Fuji (cameras and lenses) have seen a 300% increase in market share in the past 5 years. The full presentation is available on Youtube.

Qwntm, you seem to be unjournalistic in this matter as far as your references go.

You rely on a YouTube presentation, I go by the numbers presented to stockholders that would have been signed off by the board:

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/materials/ff_fy_2017q2_001.pdf

Even allowing for the corporate spin, it states:

"In the electronic imaging field, the sales of digital cameras decreased due to the negative impact of yen appreciation and other factors, while the sales of such flagship models such as FUJIFILM X-Pro2 and FUJIFILM XT-2, and interchangeable lenses increased steadily."

Of course, we are given no actual numbers for this increase, except that it has not arrested the decline of Fuji sales overall.

This is a common pattern in the industry.

[Kunzite]

As for figures, according to the 5 year anniversary and launch presentation of the XP2 in Jan 2016, Fuji (cameras and lenses) have seen a 300% increase in market share in the past 5 years.

No wonder; Fujifilm's X system was announced in 2012, less than 5 years ago. Start from almost nothing, and you'll post incredibly good looking growth.
Marketing's purpose is not to offer you accurate information, but to make the products and company appear much better than it actually is.

[Rondec]

Probably the smallest camera body/lens combo you will get from Pentax would be a K-S1 with the DA limiteds. That's actually pretty small, has a full coverage penta prism and is pretty close in size to a K-01 while actually being better ergonomically (I actually found it too small, but my daughter likes it).

I really doubt that Pentax is going to dump the k mount any time soon. They've worked really hard to develop a full lens line up and launching a new mirrorless camera with shorter registration distance just to emulate Sony and Fuji would put them back to square one. I have no idea how long it would take them to develop a full lens line up for a new lens mount. 10 years?

I hate to tell people to go else where, but I do think it is pretty clear that Pentax is going to stay with traditional SLRs and specifically with the k mount. If that doesn't work for an individual photographer then they need to look at other brands that do offer what they need/want. It would be like buying a Fuji and then constantly complaining about the lack of full frame cameras, when Fuji has indicated through their advertising that "full frame isn't necessary."

[Na Horuk]

Probably the smallest camera body/lens combo you will get from Pentax would be a K-S1 with the DA limiteds. That's actually pretty small, has a full coverage penta prism and is pretty close in size to a K-01 while actually being better ergonomically (I actually found it too small, but my daughter likes it).

Definitely, and that little camera a) looks cool b) has decent sensor c) has all kinds of features. Tiny, top notch camera and with the DA limiteds you get super compact package with top top photo quality. And it is much more affordable than a lot of other DSLR and even m43 mirrorless cameras.

[Clarkey]

Thanks, Clarkey.

It's as I thought.

Despite all the hype, they're not saving the industry, their sales are down too and like all the other brands they're going premium to cover it - charging their shrinking existing customer base more for new product upgrades.

Check out the price of an XT-2, which is not full frame!

Common theme now, sadly. We get gouged for questionable feature increases. I do think that the respective global currency changes in the last 12-18 months have a lot to do with it

The prices of the E-M1 II, and D500 make the XT-2 sound cheap!

---------- Post added 12-23-2016 at 07:55 AM ----------

Look, you can't get this from Pentax for the same reasons you can get it from Fuji: their newer built-for-mirrorless mount helps keep registration distance down on wide-angle lenses, and because the lenses are not built to support in-body image stabilisation, they don't have to cover a space larger than the APS-C frame size, where as Pentax lenses need to cover that size to give us shake reduction, composition adjustment, the astrotracer, etc.

Sure, I get the mirrorless thing, which is a double-edged sword.

Well, all I would like is a WR F2 21mm replacement to go with my Weather-sealed K-70 (if I pick one up in the new year). One of the reasons I originally went with Pentax was WR. At present, IMO, Fuji is eating Pentax's lunch.

Rant
Also, IMO, the "change the coatings and the ring colour" limited re-brand would have been much better spent on getting a new lens design to market (in the highly competitive core enthusiast space, which Fuji seems to get).

Also (since I seem to be feeling fairly holiday inclined this morning), the weight of the Pentax bodies seems to be going up and up - excepting the K-70 (a welcome return to form, BTW), is much more than the original *IST and MZ bodies I started with (with pentaprisms). Hell, even baby Nikons are now back to 450g (admittedly no SR, no WR) to counter lack of mirrorless size and bulk.

/Rant

[Imp]

So that makes 2.

make me 3

I don't have any fancy gear, but throwing on my A 20 2.8 or M 50 1.7 for a day is much nicer than even my Tamron 17-50 2.8...

[Qwntm]

Qwntm, you seem to be unjournalistic in this matter as far as your references go.

You rely on a YouTube presentation, I go by the numbers presented to stockholders that would have been signed off by the board:

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/materials/ff_fy_2017q2_001.pdf

Even allowing for the corporate spin, it states:

"In the electronic imaging field, the sales of digital cameras decreased due to the negative impact of yen appreciation and other factors, while the sales of such flagship models such as FUJIFILM X-Pro2 and FUJIFILM XT-2, and interchangeable lenses increased steadily."

Of course, we are given no actual numbers for this increase, except that it has not arrested the decline of Fuji sales overall.

This is a common pattern in the industry.

Not sure what my Youtube presentations have to do with any of this either?

At the end of the day, it's not a race. I hope all camera manufacturers do great and are able to continue making new and interesting products for us as photographers to use.

---------- Post added 12-23-16 at 03:47 PM ----------

make me 3

I don't have any fancy gear, but throwing on my A 20 2.8 or M 50 1.7 for a day is much nicer than even my Tamron 17-50 2.8...

LOL, I'm leaving the house more and more with just a K3II and 21 LTD. Loving it!

[monochrome]

My local full-service B&M dealer (8 stores and making money) has a full, 8-shelf section of Fuji (a wall of Canon, a wall of Nikon and a full section of Sony), compared to one shelf of Pentax amongst the Panny and Oly.

Say what you will about sales reports. Retail display space in a professional / prosumer flagship store tells the story better.

AFA small cameras are concerned, a K-S1 and DA40 Ltd. is very competitive and with any APSc mirrorless out there. Throw a DA70 in a pocket and I'm covered for general walking around.

[clackers]

Not sure what my Youtube presentations have to do with any of this either?

Because when I asked you for actual numbers, in post 109, you said of the source for your 'selling very well' claim, "The full presentation is available on Youtube."

At the end of the day, it's not a race. I hope all camera manufacturers do great and are able to continue making new and interesting products for us as photographers to use.

Amen.

I use cameras from four different manufacturers.

[peterh337]

"Also (since I seem to be feeling fairly holiday inclined this morning), the weight of the Pentax bodies seems to be going up and up - excepting the K-70 (a welcome return to form, BTW), is much more than the original *IST and MZ bodies I started with (with pentaprisms). Hell, even baby Nikons are now back to 450g (admittedly no SR, no WR) to counter lack of mirrorless size and bulk."

I couldn't agree more. I have gone IST-DL, K100, K5, K3, K1 and each time it got bulkier and heavier. The K1 is right at the very end of what I would want to carry around at all.

This just drives people towards mirrorless. My son has just bought the Sony A7...

[Jonathan Mac]

Common theme now, sadly. We get gouged for questionable feature increases. I do think that the respective global currency changes in the last 12-18 months have a lot to do with it

The prices of the E-M1 II, and D500 make the XT-2 sound cheap!

---------- Post added 12-23-2016 at 07:55 AM ----------



Sure, I get the mirrorless thing, which is a double-edged sword.

Well, all I would like is a WR F2 21mm replacement to go with my Weather-sealed K-70 (if I pick one up in the new year). One of the reasons I originally went with Pentax was WR. At present, IMO, Fuji is eating Pentax's lunch.

Rant
Also, IMO, the "change the coatings and the ring colour" limited re-brand would have been much better spent on getting a new lens design to market (in the highly competitive core enthusiast space, which Fuji seems to get).

Also (since I seem to be feeling fairly holiday inclined this morning), the weight of the Pentax bodies seems to be going up and up - excepting the K-70 (a welcome return to form, BTW), is much more than the original *IST and MZ bodies I started with (with pentaprisms). Hell, even baby Nikons are now back to 450g (admittedly no SR, no WR) to counter lack of mirrorless size and bulk.

/Rant

I agree with you on all points but I am happy to carry a heavier DSLR rather than have one with build quality akin to that of the lower Nikon bodies or, much worse, the MZ film bodies.

I'm pretty happy with my solution of a K3 and then a little Fuji with a fast prime (and a K-mount adapter) for times when I need to travel light. As I've already stated though, a DA WR PLM 35mm f/1.4 would be what I need to go with the Fuji only when size and weight are most important, rather than size and weight and having a very fast standard prime.