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02-12-2017, 05:40 AM   #1
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Help me think this through... K-70 vs K-S2 vs K-5ii (s)?

Hi - I am a big fan of this forum, especially the lens and camera reviews, but until now not much of a poster...

I came into the Pentax world from M42 lenses and cameras, and worked my way into K mount film cameras. Having a bunch of nice lenses hanging around, I decided to give DSLRs a try with a like new *ist DL I purchased last year for about $50 on eBay.

I was really surprised by how much I enjoyed the *ist DL and how great the IQ is with my vintage manual focus lenses. So inspired that it helped me take the plunge on buying a Nikon Df for use with my (ever increasing) collection of vintage manual focus Nikon lenses... but that's another story.

I really love the *ist for its small footprint, especially with smaller lenses, length of use with AA rechargeable batteries, great IQ and reliability, and I have found the P and Av great with Pentax-A lenses.

I shoot only at base ISO (200) and raw format, which basically makes this a daytime camera. I don't care about action shots at multiple shots per second , autofocus (I basically have no AF lenses), silly program modes, jpeg quality or video.

What I miss and would appreciate would be an *ist camera that had:
* high ISO / low light performance
* a better viewfinder, and
* weather resistance would be nice (but I don't have WR lenses)
BUT without investing more money in a digital camera than makes sense (FOR ME).

I have been pretty good about resisting the urge to buy modern, Limited or other lenses without aperture rings and/or that would only be usable on cropped sensors. The pentax is not and will not be my one and only system, not my first, as I also have nice Nikon and Leica film and digital collections...I see this a being part of a small travel kit that would allow me to take great pictures in all light conditions, without lugging too heavy and expensive equipment, and being able to share 2-3 lenses between one film (say a super program or ZX-5n) and one digital camera.

I have bought all my cameras second hand, seeking out the "old lady from pasadena" low use examples when I can. So, assuming a budget of let's say $500 for a camera in good shape, what would you recommend? The K-70's high ISO performance and portability is what piqued my interest. Should I wait until prices come down a bit or there is more of a used market for it, or is the K-SI or II basically the same (how much noticeably better is low light/ HI ISO) ? Or should I set my sights higher at a K-5iis with low mileage? Or...?

Appreciate your thoughts in thinking this through with me... and I welcome other suggestions too...


Last edited by jamin-b; 02-12-2017 at 06:09 AM.
02-12-2017, 05:49 AM   #2
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The K-70 high iso is noticeably better than the K-s1/II
02-12-2017, 06:40 AM - 1 Like   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamin-b Quote
I see this a being part of a small travel kit that would allow me to take great pictures in all light conditions, without lugging too heavy and expensive equipment, and being able to share 2-3 lenses between one film (say a super program or ZX-5n) and one digital camera.
I have a ZX-5n, which I got for peanuts off eBay, and it's an under-recognized hero among 35mm SLRs. However. . . I've never been completely happy with using vintage, manual-focus lenses on DSLRs. Manual focusing was never quick-and-confident enough for me. I did get a Katz Eye focusing screen for my K100D, but its penta-mirror viewfinder wasn't ideal for that. It fell short of what I knew years ago with my old Sears KS-2 (i.e. Ricoh XR7).

I got a used Sony A7 and adapters for K-mount and M42 thread mount lenses, and I've collected a nice set of M42 lenses. The electronic viewfinder with focus peaking and magnification make it the quickest and easiest focusing camera that I've found yet. I can also switch freely between the Sony and my Voigtländer Bessaflex when using M42 lenses. And the Takumars are lovely, although my most-used lens is a Voigtländer Ultron 40mm F2.

However, as I am reading the words "small travel kit", I should also mention this... My other digital camera that gets a lot of use is my Pentax Q7. I can carry the camera body and five lenses in a very small bag that weighs almost nothing. . .
  • 01 Normal Prime (about 40mm equiv.)
  • 02 Standard Zoom
  • 03 Fisheye
  • 06 Telephoto Zoom
  • 08 Wide Zoom

The operation and shooting experience is completely different from the Sony. There's no EVF, so I've had to learn some tactics to deal with glare on the LCD panel. Manual focus is fairly hopeless, but it has the most dependable autofocus I've seen. It's a ninja camera that few notice and even fewer feel any concern about. (When I'm at events with the Sony, someone usually approaches me to ask if I'm shooting for a newspaper or magazine. Nobody has ever asked this when I am using the Q7.)

I did a series of comparison shots to try and quantify the difference of image quality between the A7 and the Q7, and... Well, obviously the A7 won, but not by the wide margin that you might imagine. When shooting normal-to-wide in daylight, it was often difficult to distinguish the two without careful pixel-peeping.

Last edited by Tony Belding; 02-12-2017 at 06:46 AM.
02-12-2017, 07:23 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
I did a series of comparison shots to try and quantify the difference of image quality between the A7 and the Q7, and... Well, obviously the A7 won, but not by the wide margin that you might imagine. When shooting normal-to-wide in daylight, it was often difficult to distinguish the two without careful pixel-peeping.
A pro (wedding and portrait) guy shooting a Canon 5D (original) told me years ago he was comfortable shooting 12 MP and saw no reason to change. I met him selling cameras in a store that was selling the D800, so don't try and pretend he hadn't had a chance to mess around with the competition. Our best selling print was 12 MP. And we just got a Q-S1. We are actually quite impressed by the little camera. I also recently bought a K-1 which is the obvious choice for the OP if you don't consider cost, and I like the K-1 , but it's not mind blowing. The Q-S1 however, is totally mind blowing. But I digress.

02-12-2017, 07:50 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamin-b Quote
Or should I set my sights higher at a K-5iis with low mileage?

Yes! Yes! Yes!
Before my K5iis fell off a shelf and was badly damaged, it was my favorite Pentax camera ever. From the DS forward I have owned some nice Pentax cameras, but none of them equaled the K5iis in IQ or low light shooting. After it was broken I got the K1, a fantastic camera, but in many ways I still miss my K5iis.....it was so wonderful!
I can't imagine that you would not be fully satisfied and amazed.
I loved this thread, and being in it....and now miss being there....go take a look around.
Post Your K5IIs Pictures Here! - PentaxForums.com

Regards!
02-12-2017, 07:55 AM   #6
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I currently have a K-5 IIs and still enjoying it tremendously. Both the K-S2 as well as the K-70 would fit your bill perfectly IMHO but the K-5 IIs is still great value for money. Assuming you can pick up an (almost) new K-S2 for about the same price as a heavily used K-5 IIs, I'd go for the K-S2 but IQ-wise they shouldn't be far apart if you shoot raw.
02-12-2017, 09:00 AM   #7
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To me the size differential would lead me to the KS-1 based on your criteria. Alternatively the k70.

02-12-2017, 09:12 AM - 1 Like   #8
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All would serve you well, so there is no wrong choice.
Since the KS-2 and K-70 are newer, I imagine they have better high ISO performance than the K-5 II(s).
As much as I love my K-5 IIs, my suggestion is to go with the KS-2 if you want something now. If you can wait 6 months to a year, go for the K-70.
If an absolute killer deal on a low mileage K-5 II(s) comes your way, then consider that option.
02-12-2017, 09:57 AM   #9
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I started my Digital life with an istDL as well. I then moved up to a K-30. Which I truly love. Till it committed suicide by jumping off the tripod. I then looked for a replacement I considered the same ones you are looking at.The difference between the K-70 and K-S2 weren't enough for me to spend the extra $. The price between a used K-5iis was about the same as a newer K-S2. I ended up with a slightly used K-S2. oI am extremely happy with it so far. I only wish it had the same grip that my K-30 had. But that is a personal issue and I am getting used to it The AF button ( I use back button focus) for me is a little out of place but I am getting used to that as well. It appears the K-70 and the K-S2 have the same body from the photo's I looked at so My issues would not be different by the extra $ spent for a K-70. I do like the screen being able to move away from the body. It gives my nose more room. I am a left eye shooter. I just connected my phone to the wifi on the K-S2. it sends all the info on the back screen to my phone along with a shutter button . Gives me the control of the camera from my phone . I think I am going to like that feature as well.
I have shot at 12800 iso with really good results. I haven't really spent much time higher than that yet. The results there were roughly the same as the K-30 at iso 3200 a bit of noise but not awful.

I also have a Nikon system , Film as well as digital. My Pentax system is my main system.
02-12-2017, 11:50 AM   #10
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All the cameras mentioned thus far are great.

One thing I would say though is that as you get to 16Mb/20Mb/24Mb cameras with no AA filters on them you may find that your old glass is just not up to to the task and cannot match the resolution of the sensors.
It may not be an issue but something to think about.

Given your requirements I would either go:
- $599 New K-70: Best bang for buck right now in my opinion. This camera would meet you needs for a very long time.
- $529 New K-S2 with 18-50 WR lens: Gives you nice compact WR lens for a complete WR kit. Great value. Or sell the lens for $100 and get the camera for $429!

K5iis is an awesome camera. But it is a little weightier than the others carrying it around all day may be noticeable.
Take a strong look at the Q cameras. These pack a lot of punch for their size and weight. It could complement your K-mount film kit quite nicely.
02-12-2017, 12:04 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by caliscouser Quote
One thing I would say though is that as you get to 16Mb/20Mb/24Mb cameras with no AA filters on them you may find that your old glass is just not up to to the task and cannot match the resolution of the sensors.
It may not be an issue but something to think about.
I own 17 old lenses, a few of them old, the ones that don't do well on digital would be my Viitar M 135, my FAJ 18-35, and my Sigma 70-300, and they were never good lenses on anything, My FA 35-80 ( a cheap kit lens) works just fine. You have to have really cheap stuff for it not to work on aa K-3

I just bought a Q and it's wonderful for morning dog walks etc. so I'm with you on that one.

Let's share shots with Q! - Page 357 - PentaxForums.com
02-12-2017, 12:51 PM - 1 Like   #12
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At current pricing the K-70 is the best value and would be my first choice with the K-S2 as a close second. Considerations from my point of view are that once the target for bulk/weight are met as far as travel cam goes, the rest comes down to practical considerations and features. Some bullet points for distinguishing characteristics for the three cameras, biased for travel cam usage:

Important for quality/practical reasons:
  • Warranty and option for extended warranty/service contract
  • Resolution, not as critical for a travel camera, but nice to have if you need to crop
  • Low light noise characteristics...yes it is there even at low ISO and night shooting is fairly common when traveling.
  • 14-bit color depth...this is one of the things that make the K-70 stand out in its class. It does make a difference.
  • Articulating screen. Nice for low/high level work (allows for shorter tripod). Camera may be configured to allow shooting with screen facing in.
  • Support for wired remote...lacking on the K-S2
Nice to have:
  • Astrotracer
  • GPS
  • WiFi
  • Sensor-shift resolution
  • Night mode rear LCD
  • Focus peaking
  • In-camera HDR...not high on the list for me, but I am not everybody
Strong points of the K-5IIs
  • Equivalent for most features with the other two choices
  • Metal build
  • Top LCD. If you have been shooting with one, not having it is one of the first things you notice.
  • Better battery
  • Some claim better video implementation
  • On-board flash can serve as master/controller for wireless P-TTL
Things to not worry about:
  • Sensor out-resolving your lens. Put it this way, your lenses will perform as well on the K-70 as on the K-5IIs and probably better.
Valid concerns:
  • Higher resolution requires attention to technique. Plan on having a couple of weeks with the camera before going on your first trip.
  • Articulating screen is a potential point of failure.
All three cameras on your list are great tools. I might add that a K-3 is closer all-round in regards to bulk/weight to the K-5IIs than either of the two smaller cameras. This is not obvious until you've handled all four. A good deal on a K-3 should not be ignored.

Steve
02-12-2017, 01:31 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamin-b Quote
Hi - I am a big fan of this forum, especially the lens and camera reviews, but until now not much of a poster...

I came into the Pentax world from M42 lenses and cameras, and worked my way into K mount film cameras. Having a bunch of nice lenses hanging around, I decided to give DSLRs a try with a like new *ist DL I purchased last year for about $50 on eBay.

I was really surprised by how much I enjoyed the *ist DL and how great the IQ is with my vintage manual focus lenses. So inspired that it helped me take the plunge on buying a Nikon Df for use with my (ever increasing) collection of vintage manual focus Nikon lenses... but that's another story.

I really love the *ist for its small footprint, especially with smaller lenses, length of use with AA rechargeable batteries, great IQ and reliability, and I have found the P and Av great with Pentax-A lenses.

I shoot only at base ISO (200) and raw format, which basically makes this a daytime camera. I don't care about action shots at multiple shots per second , autofocus (I basically have no AF lenses), silly program modes, jpeg quality or video.

What I miss and would appreciate would be an *ist camera that had:
* high ISO / low light performance
* a better viewfinder, and
* weather resistance would be nice (but I don't have WR lenses)
BUT without investing more money in a digital camera than makes sense (FOR ME).

I have been pretty good about resisting the urge to buy modern, Limited or other lenses without aperture rings and/or that would only be usable on cropped sensors. The pentax is not and will not be my one and only system, not my first, as I also have nice Nikon and Leica film and digital collections...I see this a being part of a small travel kit that would allow me to take great pictures in all light conditions, without lugging too heavy and expensive equipment, and being able to share 2-3 lenses between one film (say a super program or ZX-5n) and one digital camera.

I have bought all my cameras second hand, seeking out the "old lady from pasadena" low use examples when I can. So, assuming a budget of let's say $500 for a camera in good shape, what would you recommend? The K-70's high ISO performance and portability is what piqued my interest. Should I wait until prices come down a bit or there is more of a used market for it, or is the K-SI or II basically the same (how much noticeably better is low light/ HI ISO) ? Or should I set my sights higher at a K-5iis with low mileage? Or...?

Appreciate your thoughts in thinking this through with me... and I welcome other suggestions too...
I think any k5 or k3 would fit your needs and would make you feel right at home with a solid, weather-sealed body. Not sure if you can get a k3 for your budget yet, but K5 for sure! Viewfinders will not be as good as your film cameras, but using live-view in back, and focus-peaking might make things better and easier for you for focusing and composition. K70 might also be worth it, but not sure price and performance measure up for you? Lastly, I have both k5II and K5IIs and even with my sharpest lenses cannot really seem to discern differences in images between them! Lastly, if you will never need a grip and can do with lighter weight and less durable construction, do not dismiss the K30 and K50 models. I am very fond of my k30 that has been through hell and back, but keeps right on clicking...
02-12-2017, 02:15 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamin-b Quote
So, assuming a budget of let's say $500 for a camera in good shape, what would you recommend?
Second-hand K-3. (The K-5iis would be a candidate too but the lack of focus peaking is a limitation for MF.)

The flagship models have more robust construction than the intermediate models like K-S2 or K-70, use larger batteries that run for longer, and have a host of little things that make for a much better user experience (e.g. quiet shutter, dedicated ISO button, top LCD screen, better dust removal, etc etc).

Of course the K-3 is bigger and heavier than the K-S2/K-70, so if weight and bulk are critical go for one of those. (I have a K-S2 as my second camera, and tend to carry it on walks, rather than the K-3.) The flippy screen on those cameras is surprisingly handy too. But all other things equal, I much prefer to use the K-3.
02-12-2017, 02:19 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamin-b Quote
is the K-SI or II basically the same?
The unique feature of the K-S2 is the fully articulated rear screen.

As @stevebrot noted, it is a potential source of failure
(I had one die on an old Canon P&S).

But if, like me, you find yourself shooting at odd angles
where a flat or less-than-fully articulated screen won't cut it,
then I'd certainly recommend the K-S2.
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