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08-08-2008, 08:03 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
How can an effectively smaller viewfinder of the K10D be better for MF than that of 5D? Also, how can a smaller mirror (of the K10D) which collects less light but with a relatively larger magnifcation produce a "brighter" viewfinder image??

It just puzzles me much for your claimed statements.. In fact, everyone knows that 5D has a larger and brighter viewfinder than *any* APS-C DSLR, *physically*. Can anything on this planet be against the law of Physics? ;-)
well --- I can only give you my experiences ---- and just so you know I am not everybody ( whoever everybody is ) --- so if everybody knows that the 5d is a better viewfinder -- logic says that I am not everybody

regarding my claims ---- ( don't you just love having to defend yourself on the internet ??? ) maybe, just maybe the pentax k10d has a much better focusing screen than my canon 5d

just so you know ---- my background in photography the last 10 years has involved shooting 10's of thousands of product in the studio, which when the project started was with film and then scanning. I then moved to digital in the late 90's and then I bought a canon 30d, then 60d, then 1D, then 10d, then 20d,
then 5d ( alot these cams were owned at the same time ) --- so I do think I know my way around a viewfinder --- thank you very much!!! after all critical focus was what that project was all about ( autofocus with manual touch-up -- if you know what I mean.

now - to the present --- that project dried up with the economy ( they moved the photos in house ) and I was left with alot of Canon equipment and a Leaf / Mamiya digital back --- alot of the stuff including the Leaf back, I have sold off

I still have my Canon 5d and the 24-105 L and 80-200 IS L zooms left --- however
I am now contemplating selling that off to buy more Pentax stuff

you see --- I am now back to shooting for myself and can shoot whatever I want
with whatever I want to. And I really like the pentax glass ---- so there you go

as a side note ---- my regular job is in the commercial printing industry --- and not to sound too condesending --- but I do know a little bit about color and sharpness in images and on the printing press --- that is all we do all day

kman

08-08-2008, 08:05 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Maybe since he's actually shot pictures with both cameras he can make a better judgement.

Kmankaer, RH is our resident troll. There's no banning on these forums and we all do our best to humour him depending on the comments and time of day.

I kind of guessed that ---- it is what makes the world around

Just ignore him like the rest of us do.
I tried -- but I am weak ( too many beers last nite )


kman
08-08-2008, 08:09 AM   #18
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Wow, kman... it is great to have someone with your massive experience join us and say you prefer the K10D. Just imagine if you had the K20D!! (Which I think you soon might after selling more Canon gear.)
08-08-2008, 08:15 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Maybe since he's actually shot pictures with both cameras he can make a better judgement.

Kmankaer, RH is our resident troll. There's no banning on these forums and we all do our best to humour him depending on the comments and time of day.

Just ignore him like the rest of us do.
Very well said Peter,

I don't mind Rice, and I do think that he makes the odd good point.
However he can't be looked at as the gospel of cameras.

08-08-2008, 08:29 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Wow, kman... it is great to have someone with your massive experience join us and say you prefer the K10D. Just imagine if you had the K20D!! (Which I think you soon might after selling more Canon gear.)
thank you very much for the compliment
do I see more limited lens in my future???? or a k20d ????

kman
08-08-2008, 08:36 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by kmanlaker Quote
well --- I can only give you my experiences ---- and just so you know I am not everybody ( whoever everybody is ) --- so if everybody knows that the 5d is a better viewfinder -- logic says that I am not everybody

regarding my claims ---- ( don't you just love having to defend yourself on the internet ??? ) maybe, just maybe the pentax k10d has a much better focusing screen than my canon 5d

just so you know ---- my background in photography the last 10 years has involved shooting 10's of thousands of product in the studio, which when the project started was with film and then scanning. I then moved to digital in the late 90's and then I bought a canon 30d, then 60d, then 1D, then 10d, then 20d,
then 5d ( alot these cams were owned at the same time ) --- so I do think I know my way around a viewfinder --- thank you very much!!! after all critical focus was what that project was all about ( autofocus with manual touch-up -- if you know what I mean.

now - to the present --- that project dried up with the economy ( they moved the photos in house ) and I was left with alot of Canon equipment and a Leaf / Mamiya digital back --- alot of the stuff including the Leaf back, I have sold off

I still have my Canon 5d and the 24-105 L and 80-200 IS L zooms left --- however
I am now contemplating selling that off to buy more Pentax stuff

you see --- I am now back to shooting for myself and can shoot whatever I want
with whatever I want to. And I really like the pentax glass ---- so there you go

as a side note ---- my regular job is in the commercial printing industry --- and not to sound too condesending --- but I do know a little bit about color and sharpness in images and on the printing press --- that is all we do all day

kman

Can you post some of your products shoots? Just curiosity from a product shoot lover.
08-08-2008, 09:06 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gruoso Quote
Can you post some of your products shoots? Just curiosity from a product shoot lover.
I can when I get to the workstation that has those on it --- which is the one of the computers at my home -- and I cannot find any here at the office --- they have been put onto back-up drives

to be honest with you guys these product shots are not that exicting --- it was not like I was doing cool stuff like Budwieser Beer campaigns or anything like that
it was mainly automobile engine and chassis parts --- you know the pain the butt
ones with lots of highly polished metal --- I learned a whole about spectoral hightlights and how to minimize them ( double diffusion )

kman
08-08-2008, 09:33 AM   #23
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Welcome!

We have a multitude of folks here from all walks of life. I see you've seen a gamut of gear. Besides, more than a few (actually many) folks have proven, time and time again, it's the photographer, not the gear. I'm still learning, and the best part is that I have the rest of my life to keep learning - what a journey!

Thanks for sharing some of your life experiences and I look forward to your contributions...

Regards,
Marc

08-08-2008, 09:34 AM   #24
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In fact, everyone knows that 5D has a larger and brighter viewfinder than *any* APS-C DSLR, *physically*. Can anything on this planet be against the law of Physics? ;-)[/QUOTE]

I find K20D viewfinder with standard screen amazingly easy to MF, even with my 64 year old peepers. Evidently that's due to the excellence of Pentax's screen.

K20D seems easier to manually focus than my old, superb Canon F1 35mms with several top-dollar screens...F1s were becoming a little difficult for me...I've used them since they were new, making my living with them in ancient times.

I've seen a bunch of 5D/L in print exchanges: despite theories about "Physics" they don't beat K20D. Maybe this would be different at mural size?

Perhaps Pentax 14.6 sensor and/or primes are simply better than 5D "full format" with L lenses .. many demanding Canon-shooters do adapt Leica lenses when they want top optics...I wouldn't be surprised if Pentax pancakes approached Leica quality.
08-08-2008, 11:17 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Wow, kman... it is great to have someone with your massive experience join us and say you prefer the K10D. Just imagine if you had the K20D!! (Which I think you soon might after selling more Canon gear.)
I'll stand in line as well. Very much interested in hearing more of your impressions and sharing your images here. Great to have someone with this experience joining the crowd.
08-08-2008, 11:24 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
I'll stand in line as well. Very much interested in hearing more of your impressions and sharing your images here. Great to have someone with this experience joining the crowd.

wow --- thank you so much for the kind words
know if I can only remember things, I maybe able to contribute to this fine forum

( hey did anybody see my car keys ??? )
just joking

kman
08-08-2008, 02:24 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
How can an effectively smaller viewfinder of the K10D be better for MF than that of 5D? Also, how can a smaller mirror (of the K10D) which collects less light but with a relatively larger magnifcation produce a "brighter" viewfinder image??

It just puzzles me much for your claimed statements.. In fact, everyone knows that 5D has a larger and brighter viewfinder than *any* APS-C DSLR, *physically*. Can anything on this planet be against the law of Physics? ;-)
It appears you are basing your statement on one thing - the mirror, and ignoring many other factors such as the amount of light that passes through the lens, the focusing screen and the pentaprism. Even so, don't forget that not all mirrors will reflect the same amount of light. It is entirely possible the smaller Pentax mirror reflects more light than the Cannon. You should really think about what you are saying before posting. As Mark Twain, an American author once said, "It is better to be quite and be mistaken for a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

BTW, you count me out of the "everyone knows" too.
08-08-2008, 02:32 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by kmanlaker Quote
wow --- thank you so much for the kind words
know if I can only remember things, I maybe able to contribute to this fine forum

( hey did anybody see my car keys ??? )
just joking

kman
"chuckling" welcome kman, good to see you have met some of the 'locals'... that was fun.

Look forward to your contributions.

Cheers
oh yeah... your car keys are where you left them.
08-08-2008, 04:19 PM   #29
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maybe the lenses are that much better? imagine average C users reaction: "look at me! i have a full frame camera, but i don't have any lenses that are good enough for it! maybe i will convert some old pentax lenses to use with my expensive full frame camera?"
08-08-2008, 04:29 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shashinki Quote
maybe the lenses are that much better? imagine average C users reaction: "look at me! i have a full frame camera, but i don't have any lenses that are good enough for it! maybe i will convert some old pentax lenses to use with my expensive full frame camera?"
Based on taste:

Pentax, (M42, K, KA)
Olympus, (OM)
Leica, (R)
Nikon, (F)
Contax Zeiss, (C/Y)
Carl Zeiss Jena DDR (M42) (you know Flektogons and the like)
Feels like i'm forgetting something.....
Right, i did: Minolta Rokkor 58/1.2 as the most loved, most mount converted lens of them all, despite the tricky yet simple mount conversion, people are still doing it.
And no, (hardly?) noone uses the great Canon FD lenses, since they need an optical adapter.
All other use a plain mechanical adapter/spacer.

All this adapting is what made me look at the K20D at the first place.
I no longer have the Takumars that drove me here. But i am still a very happy camper. (Sorry i like the cameras functions with KA a whole lot more than with M42/K)

The above are liked on the 5D (some with mirror clearance issues, for which mirrors often lose a few thousands to grinding)
But imagine those canon crop slr owners cutting the best of those out of the middle of their image circles.
I said i like KA better than M42, but i have a M42 to K ring, and man if i find another flektogon, i don't care, i'll have it. But a Pentax film body to go with my KA Lenses should come first.

Last edited by morfic; 08-08-2008 at 04:35 PM.
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