RAW and Noise

shiner · 02-28-2017, 05:26 PM

On another forum, there is a discussion about Pentax RAW mode. Someone says that in RAW mode, noise reduction functions when activated in camera. While I've never thought to try this, for testing purposes... does it?

Adam · 02-28-2017, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by shiner

On another forum, there is a discussion about Pentax RAW mode. Someone says that in RAW mode, noise reduction functions when activated in camera. While I've never thought to try this, for testing purposes... does it?

Generally, no. Most in-camera processing only applies to JPEG files.

**jlstrawman** · 02-28-2017, 06:01 PM

You CAN change the settings from page 2 of the Rec. Mode menu, but I don't know if they will apply to RAW.

rawr · 02-28-2017, 06:27 PM

It depends on the model. DxOMark.com testing showed that they suspected that some Pentaxes (eg the K-5 or K-x) had noise reduction active in RAW - in the case of the K-x and K-5, for ISO's above 1600.

But DxOMark testing no longer detects this in K-3 onwards, K-1 etc. This might change again when the KP is measured.

shiner · 02-28-2017, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by rawr

It depends on the model. DxOMark.com testing showed that they suspected that some Pentaxes (eg the K-5 or K-x) had noise reduction active in RAW - in the case of the K-x and K-5, for ISO's above 1600.

But DxOMark testing no longer detects this in K-3 onwards, K-1 etc. This might change again when the KP is measured.

Hmm. This question came up in regards to the KP. An unknown then.

---------- Post added 02-28-17 at 08:38 PM ----------

Originally posted by Adam

Generally, no. Most in-camera processing only applies to JPEG files.

This is what I had assumed to be the case. I expect my RAW files to be... RAW files...

photoptimist · 02-28-2017, 06:40 PM - **1 Like**

Long shutter time NR certainly does affect the RAW image. It collects a second RAW image with the shutter closed and subtracts it from the first RAW image of the subject to remove dark current and white-pixel noise.

I don't know if the high ISO NR affects the RAW, though.

The Squirrel Mafia · 02-28-2017, 09:10 PM

Prior to getting my K-50 a while ago, I had downloaded some DNG files from Imaging-Resource to play with. I got all their ISO 6400 studio shots with different NR. The only thing I noticed was that the color shifted slightly towards the red/magenta side when NR was being used. It had more of a green/yellow tint without NR. I was using RawTherapee. Fine detail was about the same. I do suspect that RAW files still get some NR even when its off.

Nicolas06 · 02-28-2017, 11:41 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by shiner

This is what I had assumed to be the case. I expect my RAW files to be... RAW files...

For Pentax that the case, more or less. I believe it is the same for Canikon. For Sony, Panasonic or Olympus, I think the raws are cooked.

The most important thing of raws vs jpeg is the dynamic range (12 or 14 bits vs 8) but it's true that if you applies things in camera and that you do it badly, that you may destroy some usefull information that a raw processing software with much more CPU, time and memory or more advanced algorithms could use for better results. So in a sense, it is better to not cook raws as then you have choice.

For example, take an old camera raw, use latest greatest lightroom/Dxo and compare what you got back in time to what you get today, and you'd find quite improved results. Easily 2EV gain.

starbase218 · 03-01-2017, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by rawr

It depends on the model. DxOMark.com testing showed that they suspected that some Pentaxes (eg the K-5 or K-x) had noise reduction active in RAW - in the case of the K-x and K-5, for ISO's above 1600.

But DxOMark testing no longer detects this in K-3 onwards

Yup, which is probably why some people say the K-3 is noisier than the K-5. It's really not, but the K-5 processing already does a bit of work for you in cleaning up the noise.

ekip · 03-02-2017, 06:06 AM

Some older Nikon DSLRs with CCD sensors were called "star eaters" because they performed some kind of NR the RAW files. I think there is a suspicion that more modern Nikons also filter out noise in RAWs but I've never heard of any other cameras doing it though

Sagala · 03-02-2017, 03:26 PM

Pentax KP 1600 vs 100 iso raw files (files opened in Photo Ninja whitout noise reduction) : Fine details lost at 1600 iso.

02-28-2017, 05:26 PM	#1
shiner Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N GA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,127	RAW and Noise On another forum, there is a discussion about Pentax RAW mode. Someone says that in RAW mode, noise reduction functions when activated in camera. While I've never thought to try this, for testing purposes... does it?

02-28-2017, 05:59 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by shiner On another forum, there is a discussion about Pentax RAW mode. Someone says that in RAW mode, noise reduction functions when activated in camera. While I've never thought to try this, for testing purposes... does it? Generally, no. Most in-camera processing only applies to JPEG files. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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02-28-2017, 06:01 PM	#3
jlstrawman Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Midwest US Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,058	You CAN change the settings from page 2 of the Rec. Mode menu, but I don't know if they will apply to RAW.

02-28-2017, 06:27 PM	#4
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	It depends on the model. DxOMark.com testing showed that they suspected that some Pentaxes (eg the K-5 or K-x) had noise reduction active in RAW - in the case of the K-x and K-5, for ISO's above 1600. But DxOMark testing no longer detects this in K-3 onwards, K-1 etc. This might change again when the KP is measured.

02-28-2017, 06:36 PM	#5
shiner Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N GA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,127 Original Poster	Originally posted by rawr It depends on the model. DxOMark.com testing showed that they suspected that some Pentaxes (eg the K-5 or K-x) had noise reduction active in RAW - in the case of the K-x and K-5, for ISO's above 1600. But DxOMark testing no longer detects this in K-3 onwards, K-1 etc. This might change again when the KP is measured. Hmm. This question came up in regards to the KP. An unknown then. ---------- Post added 02-28-17 at 08:38 PM ---------- Originally posted by Adam Generally, no. Most in-camera processing only applies to JPEG files. This is what I had assumed to be the case. I expect my RAW files to be... RAW files...

02-28-2017, 06:40 PM - 1 Like	#6
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,126	Long shutter time NR certainly does affect the RAW image. It collects a second RAW image with the shutter closed and subtracts it from the first RAW image of the subject to remove dark current and white-pixel noise. I don't know if the high ISO NR affects the RAW, though.

02-28-2017, 09:10 PM	#7
The Squirrel Mafia Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3,054	Prior to getting my K-50 a while ago, I had downloaded some DNG files from Imaging-Resource to play with. I got all their ISO 6400 studio shots with different NR. The only thing I noticed was that the color shifted slightly towards the red/magenta side when NR was being used. It had more of a green/yellow tint without NR. I was using RawTherapee. Fine detail was about the same. I do suspect that RAW files still get some NR even when its off.

02-28-2017, 11:41 PM - 2 Likes	#8
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by shiner This is what I had assumed to be the case. I expect my RAW files to be... RAW files... For Pentax that the case, more or less. I believe it is the same for Canikon. For Sony, Panasonic or Olympus, I think the raws are cooked. The most important thing of raws vs jpeg is the dynamic range (12 or 14 bits vs 8) but it's true that if you applies things in camera and that you do it badly, that you may destroy some usefull information that a raw processing software with much more CPU, time and memory or more advanced algorithms could use for better results. So in a sense, it is better to not cook raws as then you have choice. For example, take an old camera raw, use latest greatest lightroom/Dxo and compare what you got back in time to what you get today, and you'd find quite improved results. Easily 2EV gain.

03-01-2017, 03:02 AM	#9
starbase218 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy, Universe Posts: 1,119	Originally posted by rawr It depends on the model. DxOMark.com testing showed that they suspected that some Pentaxes (eg the K-5 or K-x) had noise reduction active in RAW - in the case of the K-x and K-5, for ISO's above 1600. But DxOMark testing no longer detects this in K-3 onwards Yup, which is probably why some people say the K-3 is noisier than the K-5. It's really not, but the K-5 processing already does a bit of work for you in cleaning up the noise.

03-02-2017, 06:06 AM	#10
ekip Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 68	Some older Nikon DSLRs with CCD sensors were called "star eaters" because they performed some kind of NR the RAW files. I think there is a suspicion that more modern Nikons also filter out noise in RAWs but I've never heard of any other cameras doing it though

03-02-2017, 03:26 PM	#11
Sagala Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Montréal Photos: Gallery Posts: 101	Pentax KP 1600 vs 100 iso raw files (files opened in Photo Ninja whitout noise reduction) : Fine details lost at 1600 iso.