When will Pentax add eye-focus to their cameras ?

redcat · 03-07-2017, 12:10 AM

If you shoot portrait or wildlife or idk any subject having eyes, it'd be a must to have the eye in focus. Many cmeras already have this (and track for the eye as subject moves), for many years, when will Pentax add this feature to their bodies ? Am I the only one asking for this ?

Sandy Hancock · 03-07-2017, 12:24 AM - **1 Like**

Call me a control freak, but I must confess I'm pretty happy moving my focal point around to suit the shot.

redcat · 03-07-2017, 12:42 AM

but it's for still portrait, imagine your model just move a little and you have to acquire focus again, or a moving baby, or a flying bird, or an action shoot... eye focus in these situations is extremely useful. I see Sony has it, Fuji has it, Olympus has it and still waiting for Pentax to add this feature. Live view already has face detection, just a little bit more and the eye will be in focus all the time ! how cool is that

Sandy Hancock · 03-07-2017, 12:47 AM - **2 Likes**

But Nikon and Canon, whose users own the professional portrait market (at least in 35mm land), do not.
Does that tell you anything?

**BigMackCam** · 03-07-2017, 01:27 AM

Like a lot of features, it's great in theory, but in practice can produce very mixed results - certainly on Sony, depending on which model you go for (it's the much more expensive models that have continuous eye AF - eg. A7RII), and how fast the lens is. Also, it's far more suited to cameras with a *lot* of focus points, and the AF matrix in our Pentax DSLRs isn't currently granular enough to support even single eye AF, IMHO.

Steve.Ledger · 03-07-2017, 01:59 AM - **2 Likes**

Just how much do you want the camera to do?
I generally turn all that tracking rubbish off.

HopelessTogger · 03-07-2017, 02:45 AM

I have this feature on the A7r, possibly that cameras' only redeeming feature, but for some reason you have to push a prescribed button to go from face detection to eye detection which seems daft really considering that if you want a face in focus you definitely want the eye(s) in focus. Not sure in the A7RII now finds the eyes automatically?

Unlikely we'll see this from Pentax especially in OVF. Too few AF points clustered across a small area of the frame. Might see it in live view at some point but AF tracking and scene recognition is still Pentax achilles heel.

Na Horuk · 03-07-2017, 03:22 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

and the AF matrix in our Pentax DSLRs isn't currently granular enough to support even single eye AF, IMHO.

I think this is the main reason. An eye is pretty small in the frame, and tracking its movement would need a lot of small AF poins.
Live view could be done more easily, like face detection, but it would still have possible failures when it would detect other random spots as eyes. The face detection is not that great right now, and I imagine finding eyes is even more difficult

Still, it is a feature that Pentax should add eventually. Even if only in live view

**ffking** · 03-07-2017, 04:32 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

Call me a control freak, but I must confess I'm pretty happy moving my focal point around to suit the shot.

control freak

f22 · 03-07-2017, 04:39 AM

Changing to Center Spot type of AF permits putting the red dot directly on the subject pupil. I usually have it on Multi segment AF, except if I am setting up for portrait use. The KP, makes it easy to use the dial to switch quickly between all 3 AF settings. So I don't feel its as critical since you can handle it this way.

Sandy Hancock · 03-07-2017, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by ffking

control freak

Guilty as charged

phoebus · 03-07-2017, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by redcat

I see Sony has it, Fuji has it, Olympus has it

There's a clue in the list of cameras that do have the feature: they are mirrorless. Using the whole sensor, there is enough resolution (data) to resolve, detect and CDAF focus on the eyes . Using PDAF, the ability to focus anywhere in the vewfinder is lacking and the metering matrix too low resolution to reliably detect the eyes. In liveview, it could happen, but not using the OVF. (It seems Nikon D750 has that capability in liveview already)

**THoog** · 03-07-2017, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by redcat

I see Sony has it, Fuji has it, Olympus has it

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

But Nikon and Canon, whose users own the professional portrait market (at least in 35mm land), do not.
Does that tell you anything?

It tells me that it's easier to implement in a contrast-detect AF system than a phase-detect AF system, which I guess is rather obvious, as the eyeball is a rather distinctive high-contrast target. Face detection is yet another feature that comes built-in with the PRIME (Milbeaut) image processor, so I wouldn't expect to see Pentax doing anything to improve it unless SocioNext does it for them.

BrianR · 03-07-2017, 07:53 AM - **3 Likes**

This would be an awesome feature. I predict hours of fun trying to confuse it.

leekil · 03-07-2017, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by phoebus

There's a clue in the list of cameras that do have the feature: they are mirrorless. Using the whole sensor, there is enough resolution (data) to resolve, detect and CDAF focus on the eyes . Using PDAF, the ability to focus anywhere in the vewfinder is lacking and the metering matrix too low resolution to reliably detect the eyes. In liveview, it could happen, but not using the OVF. (It seems Nikon D750 has that capability in liveview already)

The Nikon cameras have had OVF face-detection for a while now (maybe since the D800?), since they have had a high-resolution metering sensor. Now that the K-1 has an 86,000 pixel metering sensor, it seems like they could do it as well. If the PRIME chip can do it, that seems more encouraging that they could implement that feature, as I had assumed perhaps Nikon had a patent on it.

03-07-2017, 12:10 AM	#1
redcat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Paris Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,939	When will Pentax add eye-focus to their cameras ? If you shoot portrait or wildlife or idk any subject having eyes, it'd be a must to have the eye in focus. Many cmeras already have this (and track for the eye as subject moves), for many years, when will Pentax add this feature to their bodies ? Am I the only one asking for this ?

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03-07-2017, 12:24 AM - 1 Like	#2
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	Call me a control freak, but I must confess I'm pretty happy moving my focal point around to suit the shot.

03-07-2017, 12:42 AM	#3
redcat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Paris Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,939 Original Poster	but it's for still portrait, imagine your model just move a little and you have to acquire focus again, or a moving baby, or a flying bird, or an action shoot... eye focus in these situations is extremely useful. I see Sony has it, Fuji has it, Olympus has it and still waiting for Pentax to add this feature. Live view already has face detection, just a little bit more and the eye will be in focus all the time ! how cool is that

03-07-2017, 12:47 AM - 2 Likes	#4
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	But Nikon and Canon, whose users own the professional portrait market (at least in 35mm land), do not. Does that tell you anything?

03-07-2017, 01:27 AM	#5
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	Like a lot of features, it's great in theory, but in practice can produce very mixed results - certainly on Sony, depending on which model you go for (it's the much more expensive models that have continuous eye AF - eg. A7RII), and how fast the lens is. Also, it's far more suited to cameras with a lot of focus points, and the AF matrix in our Pentax DSLRs isn't currently granular enough to support even single eye AF, IMHO.

03-07-2017, 01:59 AM - 2 Likes	#6
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Just how much do you want the camera to do? I generally turn all that tracking rubbish off.

03-07-2017, 02:45 AM	#7
HopelessTogger Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Roi-et, Thailand Posts: 773	I have this feature on the A7r, possibly that cameras' only redeeming feature, but for some reason you have to push a prescribed button to go from face detection to eye detection which seems daft really considering that if you want a face in focus you definitely want the eye(s) in focus. Not sure in the A7RII now finds the eyes automatically? Unlikely we'll see this from Pentax especially in OVF. Too few AF points clustered across a small area of the frame. Might see it in live view at some point but AF tracking and scene recognition is still Pentax achilles heel.

03-07-2017, 03:22 AM - 1 Like	#8
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by BigMackCam and the AF matrix in our Pentax DSLRs isn't currently granular enough to support even single eye AF, IMHO. I think this is the main reason. An eye is pretty small in the frame, and tracking its movement would need a lot of small AF poins. Live view could be done more easily, like face detection, but it would still have possible failures when it would detect other random spots as eyes. The face detection is not that great right now, and I imagine finding eyes is even more difficult Still, it is a feature that Pentax should add eventually. Even if only in live view

03-07-2017, 04:32 AM - 2 Likes	#9
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock Call me a control freak, but I must confess I'm pretty happy moving my focal point around to suit the shot. control freak

03-07-2017, 04:39 AM	#10
f22 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 117	Changing to Center Spot type of AF permits putting the red dot directly on the subject pupil. I usually have it on Multi segment AF, except if I am setting up for portrait use. The KP, makes it easy to use the dial to switch quickly between all 3 AF settings. So I don't feel its as critical since you can handle it this way.

03-07-2017, 04:54 AM	#11
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	Originally posted by ffking control freak Guilty as charged

03-07-2017, 05:25 AM	#12
phoebus Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Buckinghamshire (UK) / Morbihan (FR) Photos: Gallery Posts: 470	Originally posted by redcat I see Sony has it, Fuji has it, Olympus has it There's a clue in the list of cameras that do have the feature: they are mirrorless. Using the whole sensor, there is enough resolution (data) to resolve, detect and CDAF focus on the eyes . Using PDAF, the ability to focus anywhere in the vewfinder is lacking and the metering matrix too low resolution to reliably detect the eyes. In liveview, it could happen, but not using the OVF. (It seems Nikon D750 has that capability in liveview already)

03-07-2017, 05:38 AM	#13
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by redcat I see Sony has it, Fuji has it, Olympus has it Originally posted by Sandy Hancock But Nikon and Canon, whose users own the professional portrait market (at least in 35mm land), do not. Does that tell you anything? It tells me that it's easier to implement in a contrast-detect AF system than a phase-detect AF system, which I guess is rather obvious, as the eyeball is a rather distinctive high-contrast target. Face detection is yet another feature that comes built-in with the PRIME (Milbeaut) image processor, so I wouldn't expect to see Pentax doing anything to improve it unless SocioNext does it for them.

03-07-2017, 07:53 AM - 3 Likes	#14
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	This would be an awesome feature. I predict hours of fun trying to confuse it.

03-07-2017, 10:19 AM	#15
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Originally posted by phoebus There's a clue in the list of cameras that do have the feature: they are mirrorless. Using the whole sensor, there is enough resolution (data) to resolve, detect and CDAF focus on the eyes . Using PDAF, the ability to focus anywhere in the vewfinder is lacking and the metering matrix too low resolution to reliably detect the eyes. In liveview, it could happen, but not using the OVF. (It seems Nikon D750 has that capability in liveview already) The Nikon cameras have had OVF face-detection for a while now (maybe since the D800?), since they have had a high-resolution metering sensor. Now that the K-1 has an 86,000 pixel metering sensor, it seems like they could do it as well. If the PRIME chip can do it, that seems more encouraging that they could implement that feature, as I had assumed perhaps Nikon had a patent on it.