Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-09-2008, 02:46 PM   #16
Pentaxian
Clicker's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,241
Another solution for shooting "auto" would be to change to "spot" metering in your camera? Meter your main subject then while holding the shutter release down recompose, main drawback would be any washed out highlights.

08-09-2008, 02:46 PM   #17
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPZ Quote
Why can the fujifilm finepix range of cameras cope and pentax struggles?
Like I said, there is a tradeoff to be made. Some cameras try very hard to remove all color cast under colored lighting, and the penalty they may pay is poor color when shooting strongly colored objects in more balanced lighting. There is also an artistic tradeoff to make. Most painters work quite hard to make sure pictures painted under warm light *look* warm - a picture in which you can't tell what color the light is would be a complete failure. I rather like that the K200D preserves some of the color of the light - it makes for much more natural pictures than if everything looked the same regardless of the color of the light.

In any case, if you really *want* to remove the color cast caused by the light, the solutions are quite simple - either change WB to incandescent when shooting indoors, or shoot RAW and make things easier on yourself in virtually every way.

Back when I was still putting up with the hassle of shooting JPEG, I was in the habit of changing WB form auto to incandescent every time I bumped up the ISO to shoot indoors, and since both controls are on the same menu, that was convenient enough. But I no longer have the time nor the disk space to deal with the complications of processing JPEG, so I leave things on auto all the time and if I feel like changing WB after the fact, I can do so in seconds, and can easily fine tune how much color cast I want to leave in.
08-09-2008, 04:24 PM   #18
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 250
Original Poster
I have no idea how the EXIF data would be removed so therefore I have no idea how to put it back. I just uploaded the pics to Flickr and put them here. I had the camera set to autopict so if I don't think I dialed anything down. When I look at the pic with the Pentax software it says the WB was flash. I think I'm going to give up on worrying about these indoor pics and try again with some very unwilling subjects (my family is really sick of me taking pics of them indoors or out ). Unfortunately I'm not in Alabama anymore so I can't get more pics of mom with the great grandkids playing cards, but hopefully there will be another time. I haven't experimented much with raw and photo editing software, but I'll learn. Thanks so very much for your time. I really appreciate it.
08-09-2008, 05:07 PM   #19
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada
Posts: 2,014
If the menu on the K200D are similar to the one on the K20D, there should be a "line" somewhere in the "Custom Setting" that says something like: WB when using flash". If you set it to "flash", it will automatically change the white balance to the flash setting when the flash is ready to go. Otherwise, the white balance will stay pretty much where the camera "thinks" it should be.

08-09-2008, 05:12 PM   #20
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada
Posts: 2,014
To add to my previous post, when set to auto-everything indoor, the camera tends to use long shutter speed to preserve the ambiance, but that will let to much light in the camera for the flash to be really effective at removing color cast caused by incandescent light, so when using flash in dimly lit places, it might be worth setting the camera to "X" or "M" and having more control over shutter speed. "X" will always set the shutter to 1/180 sec. When on "M", you can use any speed that's 1/180 sec. or slower.
08-09-2008, 05:36 PM   #21
Veteran Member
sewebster's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 533
I guess if the exif says flash then it probably fired, but it almost looks to me like it didn't from the pics! One of the things I noticed when I first used my K200 was that I couldn't tell if the flash fired due to the mirror blackout
08-10-2008, 11:06 AM   #22
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
QuoteOriginally posted by TYOsborn Quote
I have no idea how the EXIF data would be removed so therefore I have no idea how to put it back. I just uploaded the pics to Flickr and put them here.
Whatever program you used to do the uploading must have removed it, as Flickr itself normally preserves it. Did you process the picture in any way before uploading (eg, resizing, converting from RAW to JPEG, etc)? What software are you using?

QuoteQuote:
I had the camera set to autopict so if I don't think I dialed anything down.
Even in autopict mode, some camera settings are honored, and flash compensation appears to be one of them. if you hit the Fn button then the down arrow, do you see 0.0 at the bottom left of the screen, or something else?

QuoteQuote:
I think I'm going to give up on worrying about these indoor pics and try again with some very unwilling subjects (my family is really sick of me taking pics of them indoors or out ). Unfortunately I'm not in Alabama anymore so I can't get more pics of mom with the great grandkids playing cards, but hopefully there will be another time.
FWIW, I don't know if you monitor is particularly poorly calibrated and is making these look different than they should. But my monitor is calibrated using the Spyder2Express - but these pictures don't look bad at all to me. The skin on forground subjects looks slightly bluish as would be expected from flash, the background looks somewhat orange, as would be expected from the lamps. I'm not sure what you were expecting. The pictures are a rather dim overall - probably because you included the lamp in the picture - but nothing not *easily* corrected in PP, even for JPEG. And the color is pretty much exactly what should be expected in a mixed-lighting situation like that.
08-10-2008, 08:03 PM   #23
Pentaxian
Clicker's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,241
Things you may need to change in your "auto pic" setting just press "menu"

*choose the first AFS (the one with all the dots)
*choose the first meter mode (evaluative, measures the overall lighting that you see in your eyepiece)

that should work out right and it should set the flash to output the necessary "fill" light but just remember the closer you are to the subject the more contrasting lighting you'll get.

08-10-2008, 08:50 PM   #24
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,791
I shoot with P&S Fuji too and I do agree your indoor shots verge to the yellow end of the spectrum.

Likely, Fuji has the AWB setting nearer to compensate for average incandescent tungsten, such as the light in the background of the photos you supplied.

The DSLR in AWB likely interprets tungsten with a warmer Kelvin setting, so everything will have that slight yellowish hue, especially

You can (and should) try the tungsten setting instead of AWB, though that setting is often set for use with halogen bulbs where the colour temperature is higher than an incandescent. The tungsten setting will "whiten up" your shots. However, the best advice given is to use RAW an change that all later.

The lash can make a world of difference for the built-in AWB.

I have a K200D and have tired this with my kit lens with indoor shots, using it in "P&S" mode, so to speak:

1) Up the DR using the Fn button. If you're photographing people indoors, ISO 200-800 is where you'll get your best shots.

2) Tone down the flash a couple of notches. That helps avoid the laserbeam on the forehead reflection. Don't shoot above ISO 400 with the flash.

3) Take the flash off auto and put it up manually, taking some shots with the flash, some without.

4) If using the kit lens, don't go below 25mm angle. Better to take a step back.

5) Take off the lens hood (again, vignetting and shadow).

6) Experiment with AWB vs. some of the presets for JPEG white balance, like the tungsten setting which works very well for me in a room with spot halogens.

Every room in my house has different settings based on the available light and I've gotten to know them quite well. I simply do not have the time to RAW process everything so I shoot JPEG 50% of the time and I need to dial in the WB in anticipation.



QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPZ Quote
Why can the fujifilm finepix range of cameras cope and pentax struggles?

Ok , in pentax's defence the fujis are fixed lense SRL and can do video too.
So I suspose the fuji sensor must get the colour right for video...
08-10-2008, 10:37 PM   #25
Site Supporter
vagrant10's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: portland
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,335
QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Whatever program you used to do the uploading must have removed it, as Flickr itself normally preserves it. Did you process the picture in any way before uploading (eg, resizing, converting from RAW to JPEG, etc)? What software are you using?
I find that when I post pics on this site that are hosted on flickr, the exif info is gone. now I know the exif info is on flickr because when I click on properties on the page in flickr, it lists the exif data.

take a look at this pic for example...


probably no exif... but when I click on the "more properties" link on this page:
Smithsonian Sackler/ Freer Gallery on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
I get the following exif:
Camera: Pentax K10D
Exposure: 0.033 sec (1/30)
Aperture: f/2.8
Focal Length: 17 mm
ISO Speed: 400
Exposure Bias: 0/10 EV
Flash: Flash did not fire

Orientation: Horizontal (normal)
X-Resolution: 72 dpi
Y-Resolution: 72 dpi
Software: K10D Ver 1.30
Date and Time: 2008:05:01 19:15:43
YCbCr Positioning: Co-Sited
Exposure Program: Normal
Date and Time (Original): 2008:04:17 09:46:15
Date and Time (Digitized): 2008:04:17 09:46:15
Metering Mode: Center Weighted Average
Color Space: sRGB
Sensing Method: One-chip colour area sensor
White Balance: Manual
Focal Length In 35mm Film: 25
Sharpness: Hard
Subject Distance Range: Close
Compression: JPEG
Image Width: 2720 pixels
Image Height: 2497 pixels


Hopefully, the op will be able to look back at their flickr page and post the exif info. Also, to the op, how far were you from your subjects when you took your pics? It does look like the flash had very little impact.... One thing I do when taking indoor pics is to use the manual white balance setting... I usually take a pic of a white wall or white piece of paper in the room where I will be taking pics and from there my white balance is usually pretty good. It gets tricky where there is mixed lighting though; for example if someone is under light from a window, but a another person is under a lamp, the white balance for both people will need to be different. Which is why I always will take pics in RAW as changing white balance seems to be easy.
08-11-2008, 06:01 AM   #26
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Outside of Philly
Posts: 1,564
Get out of AUTO!
Here is how to get good shots with the built-in flash (or external bounced flash)
-Camera in manual mode
-ISO400
-Shutter 1/180s
-Aperture f/5.6 (or f/6.3 if at the long end of your superzoom)
-White balance to FLASH

Note - The flash range is determined soley by the ISO and aperture, so upping the ISO or opening the aperture more gives you more flash range. The ambient exposure is determined by the ISO, shutter speed, and f-stop.

Without flash it will be next to impossible with that lens, but for future reference -
-Av mode
-Open up aperture as wide is it goes (hopefully something like f/1.4-f/2)
-ISO1600
-See what shutter speed you're getting, if it's fast enough (at least 1/100s) you can think about closing down the aperture or lowering the ISO.
-Set WB to match the room's lighting

If you don't want to worry about WB, shoot RAW (which gives you lots of other advantages as well) and mess with it later.
08-11-2008, 08:55 PM   #27
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 188
QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Now I don't usually like replies that start off "read the manual", but I have to say that in this cas it would help you both.

Pentax makes it quite clear that auto white balance works within a certain colour temperature range. Indoors under normal lighting is outside of that range.

Set the white balance for the scene, or shoot raw and adjust WB in processing. Or use flash.
the problem is... Pentax AWB is horrible under indoor tungsten lighting. you have to either 1) manual adjust the WB by shooting in anything but auto mode (P mode is fine), pressing the FN button then the left arrow, scroll to the little tungsten lightbulb. OR 2) manually set WB but taking a white or grey sheet of paper, shoot it with the camera under desired light and whala! you will have nice real colors rather than that yellowish look.
08-12-2008, 11:18 AM   #28
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
QuoteOriginally posted by laissezfaire Quote
the problem is... Pentax AWB is horrible under indoor tungsten lighting.
Actually, FWIW, the K200D and K20D are markedly "better" in this respect than previous models in this respect. My K200D yields pictures under AWB indoors that *for me* are just about the right balance between showing me the local colors of a scene versus showing me the color of the light. Objects look like they have their natural color but with orange light on them. I might want a *little* more local color and less of the light color, but it's pretty close to the balance I'd choose myself. Whereas the DS and K100D very clearly show me the color of the light far more than than they show the local colors of the scene. Most objects appear almost completely orange regardless of their natural color.

But while I personally prefer the balance betwene lcoal color and light color that the K200D strives to achieves, obviously, others prefer that the light coor be eliminated completely, and that is apparently what some other cameras try to do. Thus, a shot taken under tungsten light would look indistinguishable from one taken by window light. I think that's a mistake, personally, but the the fact that different people have different preferences on how an image should look is one of the reasons why RAW exists. I also think it would make a nice customization - just as one can set an auto ISO range, one should be able to set an auto WB range.
08-12-2008, 04:55 PM   #29
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 250
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Whatever program you used to do the uploading must have removed it, as Flickr itself normally preserves it. Did you process the picture in any way before uploading (eg, resizing, converting from RAW to JPEG, etc)? What software are you using?

The pics I uploaded were untouched and sent to Flickr. I didn't even size them.


Even in autopict mode, some camera settings are honored, and flash compensation appears to be one of them. if you hit the Fn button then the down arrow, do you see 0.0 at the bottom left of the screen, or something else?

I'll check it out and get back with you on that. Camera isn't with me at the moment.


FWIW, I don't know if you monitor is particularly poorly calibrated and is making these look different than they should. But my monitor is calibrated using the Spyder2Express - but these pictures don't look bad at all to me. The skin on forground subjects looks slightly bluish as would be expected from flash, the background looks somewhat orange, as would be expected from the lamps. I'm not sure what you were expecting. The pictures are a rather dim overall - probably because you included the lamp in the picture - but nothing not *easily* corrected in PP, even for JPEG. And the color is pretty much exactly what should be expected in a mixed-lighting situation like that.
It looked back in the camera too, so I just quit taking pictures.
08-12-2008, 05:02 PM   #30
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 250
Original Poster
Thanks to all of your for your input. I'll try the different suggestions. I still have to say that I was disappointed with the indoor shots just trying to point and shoot. I purchased the camera so that I could do P&S as well as learn to be a great photographer. I have another camera that takes great indoor shots and didn't cost nearly as much, but I didn't take it on the trip with me. . I'll definitely try your tips though... Afterall, the shot is what matters so I'll do what I need to do to make it happen. Every year gets a little more precious the older my mom gets.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, flash, k200, photography, pics
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Film for indoor portrait (baby) pics? grainbelt Pentax Film SLR Discussion 16 09-29-2010 09:44 PM
K20 D - lowlight indoor pics - roller derby wild explorer Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 13 06-25-2010 06:49 PM
Bad pics abound - K-x - taking photos of horses jumping indoor (can't use flash) abitofamoron Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 28 04-01-2010 03:43 AM
First few pics with new k200 bsproule Post Your Photos! 6 08-16-2008 02:32 PM
*istDL suddenly takes really bad pics akira4king Pentax DSLR Discussion 7 02-11-2007 06:09 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:48 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top