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05-14-2017, 01:29 PM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
So biz-engineer shall we all sell, following your horse analogy?
I really like your way to swap things around, at least that works well to trigger people's reactions. Pfft that's the kind of question I won't answer as I'm not the one evaluation cameras by the latest fad is the best.

05-16-2017, 06:32 AM - 1 Like   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
As a wildlife shooter, I keep up with the competition all the time. Not only that I get great images with a system that's 10% of the cost of what a lot of these guys are shooting. I find it frustrating that people imply they are going to buy a D500 to get pictures of their kids.

But lets compare to what you get from Pentax for about the same money.

D500 K-1
20 MP - 36 MP
100-51,200 --- ISO 100-204800
DX - FF -

You could just as easily ask for that price, why doesn't Nikon release a camera capable of 204,800 ISO. Why don't they just reverse engineer what Pentax has done? Every camera is a series of tradeoffs, price, technical specs. etc.

But if you think you can't do pictures of your kids, airshows etc. with Pentax products, you haven't been paying attention.

Anything you can do with a D500 you can do with a Pentax with technique. ANd those shots you saw taken with a D500, you had to have good technique to get those too. There simply is no technology good enough to cover for folks using bad technique.

The number of times people have come on to say they need a D500 or 1Dx or something to take pictures of their kids, well, it's getting real old.

Here's a strategy for those entertaining these kinds of thoughts. Ask what techniques will help you get pictures of your kids, or airshows or whatever, someone who's doing it with Pentax gear will help you out. That's what the forum is for, not wondering why Pentax doesn't make a product like one some other camera company does.

But if you must know Pentax is ruled by the god hociR and he has issued a decree, that no Pentax camera shall be as good at AF as any Nikon camera because it is deemed an unnecessary frill, foisted on the public by unscrupulous companies like Canon and Nikon to squeeze more money out of the public. Huge campaigns are run to try and convince the average Joe he needs world class AF to take pictures of his kids. People are so gullible.

hociR is saving us from our own insecurities. A few sessions with a shrink would be cheaper than a a 1Dx, and there'd still be money left over to take a course from someone who does what you want to do.
Have you ever tried shooting with anything other than a Pentax?
I did not, and did not realise what a good autofocus system was until I picked up the entry level A6000.
Remember your definition of wildlife may be very different from someone else. 10 years ago a wildlife photographer would be content capturing a grizzly. Now a grizzly with a salmon in his jaws and another in his paws while doing a juggling act is common place.
05-17-2017, 03:42 PM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by skamalpreet Quote
Have you ever tried shooting with anything other than a Pentax?
I did not, and did not realise what a good autofocus system was until I picked up the entry level A6000.
Remember your definition of wildlife may be very different from someone else. 10 years ago a wildlife photographer would be content capturing a grizzly. Now a grizzly with a salmon in his jaws and another in his paws while doing a juggling act is common place.
How about an Otter with a fish....


I have never said their weren't better AF systems than Pentax, what I have said is, if you are a half decent photographer, you can get the shots you need without top of the line AF. Personally, I get the images I need without going for all out AF. And anyone else can too.

I have seen this argument before however.
Someone posts a great wildlife pictures and claims it could only have been taken with x or y camera.

My response is always the same. "Prove it."

I also find your argument about the bear a little disingenuous. IMHO those shots are more about right place, right time and frame rate than AF. Unless the bear is actually running while doing all those things.

The fact that someone did use that camera, doesn't mean they had to.

I do alright.
Wildlife by Norm_Head | Photobucket

I Notice you didn't bother posting a great image taken with your A6000. Had you done that you might have had a chance at impressing me.

If you want to pay the big bucks for high end AF feel free. That in no way reflects on my ability to get the images i want with what i use.

Last edited by normhead; 05-17-2017 at 07:02 PM.
05-18-2017, 04:03 AM - 1 Like   #259
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... i just wanted to mention, that you can not allege everybody who didnt buy a Nikon D500 to be a skinflint or a person that thinks the gear is not worth the money

Some people have big lens-parks and stood/stand by the PENTAX brand, because they are/were satisfied with their older gear that was OK at the time they bought it and a few years after and they thought there will be real progress when a new flagship will be offered.

BUT:
Now a few years passed by and one would think there should have been significant progress in getting better AF on new cameras;
What sadly is only a bit true, because if you are dependend on a very good output and "hitrate" as a photographer and you still use the PENTAX system because your lenspark is THAT huge, you will still be better off if you only rely on the mid-focus method.
Just like more than a decade ago.

I like the brand for its ruggedness, and the K-5IIS was a real nice and clean body design with an impressive IQ and overall specs..
burst-framerate was pretty darn good at that time.

but looking at the K-1 and its Autofocus, I ask myself where the progress is that one would expect from such a "big step".
I count on some legitamate photography fellows to support me here and admit that those tacky wheels and LEDs dont mean a progress for photography as such in any way. thx.

05-18-2017, 05:43 AM - 1 Like   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by camyum Quote
but looking at the K-1 and its Autofocus, I ask myself where the progress is that one would expect from such a "big step".
I count on some legitamate photography fellows to support me here and admit that those tacky wheels and LEDs dont mean a progress for photography as such in any way. thx.
When disparaging Pentax AF most people are talking about AF.c and tracking. Shooting AF.s and burst a K-3 is very fast, and a K-1 has very fast focus confirm.
A case for the supremacy of Pentax AF - PentaxForums.com

Anyone who hasn't noticed the AF improvement from a K5 to a K-3 /K-1 simply isn't credible. In the blind my wife's K-5 seems slow as molasses. Yet Nikon, Canon and Sony users who haven't had a Pentax in their hands in years are still chirping the same old song.

As was mentioned in another thread, half the people buying a K-1 are switching from other brands. They see something in the camera they don't see in the other brands. If you think people only buy Pentax out of some kind of nostalgia, you seriously need to change your attitude. People buy Pentax because it has something the competition doesn't, something they rely on in their everyday shooting, that other companies don't have.

Coming to a Pentax forum and insulting everyone as in
QuoteOriginally posted by camyum Quote
Some people have big lens-parks and stood/stand by the PENTAX brand, because they are/were satisfied with their older gear that was OK at the time they bought it and a few years after and they thought there will be real progress when a new flagship will be offered.
is just rude.

Pentax owners are just as capable of buying Pentax product based on current performance as anyone else. You might want to change your attitude if you plan to stay here long. That's no way to make friends and influence your enemies. And you might want to catch up on what Pentax is offering these days.

Last edited by normhead; 05-18-2017 at 06:33 AM.
05-18-2017, 06:25 AM   #261
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Don't assume others think the same way you do or have the same needs, everyone makes their choice for various personal reasons. I prefer Pentax and have been using their gear since 1980, I had a small collection of lenses, but by no means a reason to stay with one brand. I shoot for fun and not for business, Pentax AF more than meets my needs and while not the fastest, it is fast enough and more importantly, accurate. To me, Pentax brings the biggest bang for the buck with their bodies and their lenses are right up there with the best of them IMHO.

I have been on hiatus from DSLRs, I was dabbling with Phantom Quads and also GoPro off and on for the last four years or so. I decided to reconnect with still photography with an upcoming cruise to Alaska I had to upgrade my DSLR, I needed gear that was water repellent. I looked around, did my research and tried various cameras and decided that the camera that fit my needs for a good price was a new K-S2 with 18-50 kit lens for $529. There is nothing from the other brands that come close to that in price and features. I have a Sigma 18-125 but as it is not WR, I picked up a Pentax 55-300 for reach and WR.

I wish to heck I had this gear when I was in Hawaii, getting rained on and not enough reach for the whales really limited me. Oh and for what it's worth the AF on my K-R kept up with the action of whales breaching, so no complaints there.
05-18-2017, 06:38 AM - 1 Like   #262
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camyum, I suggest you first show us a handful of your photography work that represents subjects where your skills has brought the camera to the edge of its possibilities autofocus wise and where nobody else has achieved good or better results (as we all know: if somebody else has good / better results then the only bottleneck is between your ears, not any tool).

Once you have provided us this insight, we can address your specific needs.

Before you deliver this, it just feels not right to treat you like a grown up.

BTW, if you buy lenses smartly selling them and getting replacements from another maker is not even close to a big thing, so that is no excuse for sticking to a brand unless you are a die hard fan.

05-18-2017, 07:01 AM   #263
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I haven't been here for more than a month and this thread is still on fire. I been with Pentax for about 3+ years due to my own assessment and decision. As the saying we have here in our part of the jungle, "you're already wet, so take a bath." I've invested so much in Pentax and I'm all wet. I guess I want better AF but as normhead says, I also have to improve my technique. There will never be a perfect system so, I do my best to live with what I have. Cheers.
05-18-2017, 07:40 AM   #264
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Sry, pals. No comment on any "fire-archery..."

I cant help wondering how posting photos that I shot, will enhance the AF-system in upcoming Pentax K-mount cameras.
Especially given the fact that, I am a longtime Pentaxian and I know my ways around its(the af-sys) drawbacks.
Talking about "ways around":

Just because WE know our ways around the shortcomings of PENTAX AF, it is still obvious that ricoh-imaging still has improvements to do on it.


Just to tap the right points, so the thread doesnt loose its direction and we get closer to Point Godwin again and to keep things more factual than sophistic-->
You can think about some keywords(and discuss them to death if you want to):

AF.C - low hitrate compared to almost every other camera system
LView-AF - missing PDAF(only CDAF)
"Trial and Error" autofocus algorithm in Pentax cameras - (you can read something about that behaviour in some article on pentaxforums.com)

And before things get too emotional, I suggest you listen very closely to a video that many internet users can watch on youtube.
Just search for "Pentax K-1 Hands-On Field Test (with Nick Devlin)" on youtube.
or click the following link if it works->
Please DO NOT WAIT for any AF.C fast paced sports shooting test in this video. They kept that out for a very special reason.

Just read and/or listen to the first 20 seconds of the video.
And think if you want to read that more often on the internet and why you would want that for you and every other pentaxian. THX.

And it is not the shortcomings of the system; No, its just that these aggressive posts/attempts on turning facts around and subliminally vilifying everyone who dares to speak critically about the PENTAX system, that drags the image of every PENTAX user through the dirt. -just keep in mind there is a universe, way bigger than pentaxforums.-
They even warn viewers not to mention anything negative they learned from these videos...
Maybe because they are already worried that one day some hardcore-pentaxian will draw a knife and ask an IT-friend where "this guy with this email adress lives" because he may stole his purse. Get it ? No good. NO GOOD.
05-18-2017, 07:58 AM - 1 Like   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by camyum Quote
AF.C - low hitrate compared to almost every other camera system
LView-AF - missing PDAF(only CDAF)
"Trial and Error" autofocus algorithm in Pentax cameras - (you can read something about that behaviour in some article on pentaxforums.com)
Yet according to published documents on Imaging Resources it has the fastest shutter response on pre-focussed images. Yet I don't see you saying other companies have to catch up in AF.s Believe it or not, AF.s is part of AF, it's not just about AF.c which I'm guessing is used rarely. At least it is used rarely around y camera systems. SO what essentially you are doing is claiming Pentax has to improve parts of their AF, but the other companies don't have to catch up where they are behind.

For myself and many shooters, the shutter lag caused by shooting AF.c is not worth the increase bin shutter lag caused by engaging it. This is not about someone doing a work around.This is about basic camera function.

I realize the forum isa frustrating place for people who soak up misguided internet information

Focus on target, wait for the pose you want, press the shutter button. Pentax beats almost anything in that type of shooting. Which happens to be the kind of shooting I do. The quarter second shutter lag of a 1Dx shooting the in AF.c is simply un-acceptable. You aggressive denial of the benefits if shooting Pentax is getting irritating. It simply means you don't know what you're talking about.

QuoteQuote:
I cant help wondering how posting photos that I shot, will enhance the AF-system in upcoming Pentax K-mount cameras.
Especially given the fact that, I am a longtime Pentaxian and I know my ways around its(the af-sys) drawbacks.
Talking about "ways around":
So you say. We don't know you from Adam. The reason for posting photos is, we can look at your photos and ask ourselves " is that the kind of photo I want to shoot." A person who shoots the kinds of photos you have opportunity and desire to shoot is worth more than the advice of someone who shoots completely different images. I have no idea if you're the kind of person I should be taking advice from. maybe you're just some internet hot shot who thinks he knows everything. At least with a few images you establish some credibility.

RIght now, I don't know if anything you post is worth reading. From what you've posted, it's the same old internet garbage that's posted here all the time.

But you tell me... how much of your work is shooting
QuoteOriginally posted by camyum Quote
AF.C fast paced sports shooting test in this video. They kept that out for a very special reason.
The reason they kept that out is because the K-1 is marketed as a field camera, not a wildlife camera. If they test an A9 against a K-1 they probably aren't going to include any crappy 12 EV sunsets either. That would be just as unfair, something you don't seem to get.

You would seem to be one of those guys who spends too much time reading, not enough time in the field shooting, and has opinions based on the tests and needs of others. Those people's opinions are always very different from those of people who actually shoot with the cameras.
05-18-2017, 10:46 AM - 2 Likes   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by camyum Quote
And before things get too emotional, I suggest you listen very closely to a video that many internet users can watch on youtube.
The strategy of desire from camera marketing business is working very well on you. Don't argue, don't wait, tomorrow, check your credit card and run to Sony camera shop and buy a Sony A9, don't complain again and go try to find fast moving things to enjoy autofocus. Anyway, after having played around and be amazed by AF speed for a few weeks, you'll soon not enjoy more than anything else, but Sony will have your money in their pockets LoL.
05-21-2017, 01:21 AM - 1 Like   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The strategy of desire from camera marketing business is working very well on you. Don't argue, don't wait, tomorrow, check your credit card and run to Sony camera shop and buy a Sony A9, don't complain again and go try to find fast moving things to enjoy autofocus. Anyway, after having played around and be amazed by AF speed for a few weeks, you'll soon not enjoy more than anything else, but Sony will have your money in their pockets LoL.
Actually i dont know what you are talking about.

I just posted my oppinion about what Ricoh-Imaging could/should improve in the next DSLR bodies. (if you want to say, "no RICOH, stop improving AF!" so just say it)

And maybe I will buy an A9 with a 24-240, 100-400 and a G Master 85mm... Maybe i will not... Why do you care and are you sure this belongs here?
05-21-2017, 02:24 AM   #268
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@Normhead With back-button AF you can use AF-C 100% of the time.
05-21-2017, 03:50 AM   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by camyum Quote
Why do you care and are you sure this belongs here?
I don't care, it's not my money. I just think we are soaked into marketing completely disconnected from reality.

QuoteOriginally posted by camyum Quote
And maybe I will buy an A9 with a 24-240
Marketing talk is one thing. Real photos from the Sony 24-240 tell a different story. In fact, at 24mm full frame, the sony images are worse than any images taken with a Pentax apsc gear at the same settings.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 05-21-2017 at 04:00 AM.
05-21-2017, 05:50 AM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
@Normhead With back-button AF you can use AF-C 100% of the time.
I tired it once for a week or two, it just didn't catch on. I have no idea why, it just never felt right. I never found a technique that helped me feel comfortable using two buttons instead of one. Maybe I need lessons.
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