Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-20-2017, 07:20 PM   #31
Pentaxian
tromboads's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sydney
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,182
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Nuno Almeida Quote
Rampa do Caramulo 3 de Julho 2016 – infocu

My site, I don't update it in ages, pretty sure those pics were with a K50, not sure and not at home, it did fine with cars, my last gig on the same place I did with the K1, the pics were fine, but I focused more on the party and not so much on the races.
Nice shots of that Hill Climb You look nice and close. (I love that 205 in the background of the first image, VIV LA FRANCE)

---------- Post added 03-21-17 at 12:22 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It tightens my gut to see a classic GT40 do that at speed.

Which testifies to the images.*

* I'm in the 'It's better than they say' camp. Especially the three most recent bodies. All my lenses on K-1 are faster and more accurate on K-1; tracking just doesn't fail me the way others say it should.
+1 for the Better then they say camp.

That could nearly be on a Pentax Shirt.

PENTAXPENTAXPENTAX
".. Just take photos.. "


Last edited by tromboads; 03-21-2017 at 04:31 AM.
03-20-2017, 07:34 PM   #32
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 797
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Well I wouldn't focus so much on the article contents outside of the image burst. I'm pretty sure Canon upper end can do this too... as can probably a number of mirrorless.
Some 4 year old mirrorless are already there
E-M1 as a sports/action shooter (examples): Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
03-20-2017, 08:28 PM   #33
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2016
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,267
QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
EM1 is a great camera, but the CAF tracking was pretty bad with it. Used it for over 3 years. The mark 2 seems like a great improvement in that area, together with a crazy burst it makes it a competitive combo I think.
03-20-2017, 09:13 PM   #34
Pentaxian
bobmaxja's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Laval, Quebec Canada
Posts: 1,911
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Because that is the usage that gets the argument. Think of an athlete approaching a goal/scoring line. You would want multiple shots of that scene to get the exact one when they scored, most dramatic shot, shot with their eyes open, shot with their eyes closed... having a series of in focus shots gives the photographer more options on which one to publish.

.
Frpm a Prorofessinal photo journalist at Hockey game, they use JPEG as this is good enought for print and screen and fast FPS plus easier to transmit image to the news desk.

03-20-2017, 10:25 PM   #35
Veteran Member
ScooterMaxi Jim's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,519
I think Pentax is closing the gap, and a committed pro who shoots action only occasionally probably can get away with relying on the Pentax system. That would have been harder to do four years ago.

I would even go as far as to say that the limitation might be more a function of available high-grade tele lenses that are not quite as responsive in the Pentax system. However, John isn't overstating the case if a shooter has to get paid for challenging action shooting on a consistent basis, you really only have two "best" choices. Given the lens situation and burst, better sports shooting is available with the K-3 series compared to full frame, as well. Pentax nearly pulled even with Nikon for a time, but the D500 put an end to that comparison.
03-21-2017, 02:48 AM - 2 Likes   #36
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 12,897
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote

My point is that there is a difference between a good shot for personal use and a great shot that I or an editor would want to put on the cover of a magazine. Your photo is very nice (I'm a cycling fan and have long admired Graham Watson's photography) but it also illustrates my point - where is the sharp photo of Caleb Ewan at the decisive moment, 20m or 30m prior to this photo when he was crossing the finish line, the Finish banner over his head, the other sprinter either throwing his bike towards the line in a final bid for victory or his head hung low and shoulders slumped in defeat? .
I clearly disagree with you, @johnmflores, and so would Graham Watson.

Here's his picture of Robbie McEwan winning the Paris stage of Le Tour in 2005 ... actually have a look at his portfolio and the majority of his shots at the finish aren't the judge's style pic but the emotional portrait afterwards.

You should know better, being involved in the publications trade, to be honest.

I was talking to a Reuters tog who shoots all the Australian tennis Opens and the editor at the local daily he most deals with wants one shot to go with the story, and it's Djokovic or whoever celebrating at the end of the game, not one with the ball anywhere in it! If it's the final, what's needed is the cup being raised.

If *I* was a commissioning ed, I wouldn't dare sit at my desk and specify equipment of my contractors or team. I would instead actually make myself useful, and get them an access all areas pass, a good expenses budget and pull strings to land one-on-one time with celebrities.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by clackers; 03-21-2017 at 02:58 AM.
03-21-2017, 05:33 AM   #37
Pentaxian
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,294
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I clearly disagree with you, @johnmflores, and so would Graham Watson.

Here's his picture of Robbie McEwan winning the Paris stage of Le Tour in 2005 ... actually have a look at his portfolio and the majority of his shots at the finish aren't the judge's style pic but the emotional portrait afterwards.

You should know better, being involved in the publications trade, to be honest.

I was talking to a Reuters tog who shoots all the Australian tennis Opens and the editor at the local daily he most deals with wants one shot to go with the story, and it's Djokovic or whoever celebrating at the end of the game, not one with the ball anywhere in it! If it's the final, what's needed is the cup being raised.

If *I* was a commissioning ed, I wouldn't dare sit at my desk and specify equipment of my contractors or team. I would instead actually make myself useful, and get them an access all areas pass, a good expenses budget and pull strings to land one-on-one time with celebrities.
What's funny is that the Graham Watson photo that you shared exhibits two of the characteristics that I mentioned, McEwan in celebration with the second place rider in defeat. That is the classic finish line photo when there are two or more racers competing. Maybe the finish banner is not there, but very often there are cues to indicate that it is at the finish. Together, the figures tell a story. [these photos are not mine]









To be honest, your photo posted earlier is nice (and I would be happy if I myself had taken it) but is missing the "agony of defeat" of the second place rider to really make the shot special. And let me be clear here - that may not be your fault because sometimes the second place guy does not give you what you want. As Graham Watson has said, he was not a fan of Greg Lemond when he started wearing Oakley sunglasses because the glasses hide the eyes and the emotion that is often there. Other motorsports photographers have said the same thing about drivers and riders with helmets with tinted or mirror visors. Some of the best recent motorcycle racing photography occurs during wet races simply because the riders are wearing clear visors.

So with facial expressions hidden by sunglasses, the photographer has to try to convey defeat of the second place rider somehow, either via slumped shoulders or a grimace of effort, or something. Those expressions often come and go very quickly, thus the need for solid C.AF paired with high FPS. The hope is that one of those 20 shots taken over 2 seconds will contain all the elements of a great shot. And even then you can't always get the shot simply because the winners and losers are not posing for your convenience. The photos I posted above have those elements. The last one in particular is iconic - Lemond winning the World Championships in 1989 (two years after he was shot by his brother-in-law in a hunting accident and the same year he won the Tour de France by 8 seconds) over Ireland's Sean Kelly (arguably that country's best one-day cyclist ever but never a World Champion) and the Soviet Union's Dmitry Konishev. I do not remember the Dutch rider on the far left.

Regarding tennis, the classic shot is the trophy being raised. I never said anything about that sport here so to presume my preference is for the ball landing within the lines is ludicrous and a silly straw man.

And regarding editors specifying equipment? I never said anything about that either, so please do not infer that I were I an editor that I would require photogs to shoot Canikon. Remember, I've been shooting Pentax for magazines for nearly 10 years. I have met dozens upon dozens of fellow editors and photographers, all of them shooting Canikon. I have been the only Pentax shooter. My primary publisher does not care what I shoot with but values my results highly. I've had hundreds of photos taken with Pentax cameras published in books, magazines, and calendars. I've even landed covers with the humble Q.


Looks who's on the January cover of BMW Owner News?!
by John Flores, on Flickr

So to suggest that I am some sort of Pentax-hating, Canikon fanboy is simply unfair.
03-21-2017, 06:09 AM   #38
On Hiatus. Back Later.
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flyover Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,445
John, is it fair to concede that at present the top-of-line Pentax bodies aren't quite up to your specific professional dramatic moment case, but for other AF.C uses current Pentax flagship cameras (K-1 and K-3ll) are quite competent when set correctly?

IOW, Pentax doesn't make a camera optimized to your use case (<20Mp, fast processor, large buffer, >10fps + full sensor area AF point coverage), probably because almost no current Pentax lenses could use such a camera's capabilities to its limit anyway?

03-21-2017, 06:15 AM - 2 Likes   #39
Pentaxian
tromboads's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sydney
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,182
Original Poster
Ah this ain't no fun.

Lets just all agree, that the myth of AF-C being unusable is rubbish. It's plenty darn usable. And then we can all get along taking photos like this guy.



See he's having fun.

---------- Post added 03-21-17 at 11:25 PM ----------

Speaking of fun



Porsche driving is not fun. It's serious business when one is not sleeping. :P How calm does this guy look. This is the exist from the down hill right turn before the banked rleft on to the start line. His foot would have been buried here yet no smiles or childish laughter. I'm unsure If I would ever stop laughing being on full noise in a 911.

Oh and yeah. Penatx AF-C is fine.

Last edited by tromboads; 03-21-2017 at 06:26 AM.
03-21-2017, 06:41 AM   #40
Senior Member
Nuno Almeida's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Aveiro
Posts: 179
QuoteOriginally posted by tromboads Quote
Nice shots of that Hill Climb You look nice and close. (I love that 205 in the background of the first image, VIV LA FRANCE)

---------- Post added 03-21-17 at 12:22 PM ----------



+1 for the Better then they say camp.

That could nearly be on a Pentax Shirt.

PENTAXPENTAXPENTAX
".. Just take photos.. "

Thank you, In the first image the car in the back it's a Fiat, Italian , And yeah in some of them I was really close, at the time the best lens I had for that was a Tamron 17-50 2.8, It allowed me to shoot the cars when they were arriving the curve, and very very fast zoomed back when they were right on top of me, some of those cars go pretty damn fast, and I was using a slow shutter to create some panning, although some shots are heavily cropped. Was my first time shooting cars, a good learning experience
.
Welcome to Facebook

Same Hill Climb, different event, this one with the K1

Last edited by Nuno Almeida; 03-21-2017 at 09:08 AM.
03-21-2017, 07:40 AM - 1 Like   #41
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,714
QuoteOriginally posted by tromboads Quote
Ah this ain't no fun.

Lets just all agree, that the myth of AF-C being unusable is rubbish. It's plenty darn usable.
But that is a three fold issue.

1) It isn't just an issue with AF-C because that has various modes. If you use it in spot mode it just tries to refocus on that certain spot. If you are using multipoint expanded that is a different situation. The argument isn't AF-C per say but the tracking portion.

2) What is the definition of 'usable' ? That is a vague term we are not likely to agree on as a whole community.

3) AF-C on a Pentax istD is a lot different than on a KP; Improvements have been made over the last ~15 years that we shouldn't forget. So claiming it for all 'Pentax' doesn't seem appropriate.

You keep showing single shots, but single shots could be taken without even using AF-C. You can get each of those with proper panning technique and AF-S or prefocusing. So I'm afraid you're still not showing any form of AF-C worked.

As a result, we're left with a thread of a bunch of enjoyable photos of cars instead. That isn't bad at all though..
03-21-2017, 01:43 PM   #42
Pentaxian
tromboads's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sydney
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,182
Original Poster
My camera lives in AF-C mode. for all those images AF-C was used. I don't understand where all this you cheated by using AF-S is coming from?

Using AF-C, I would select my target, engage the autofocus, track the subject till it was in position and take its photo. There was no AF-S all weekend.

Anyway, if that's all to hard for folk to accept, well your entitled to your alternative view

Last edited by MarkJerling; 03-21-2017 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Possible political comment edited.
03-21-2017, 02:50 PM   #43
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 922
QuoteOriginally posted by tromboads Quote
My camera lives in AF-C mode. for all those images AF-C was used. I don't understand where all this you cheated by using AF-S is coming from?

Using AF-C, I would select my target, engage the autofocus, track the subject till it was in position and take its photo. There was no AF-S all weekend.

Anyway, if that's all to hard for folk to accept, well your entitled to your alternative view
I see zero reason to doubt anything you said regarding how the shots were taken, and somewhat surprised that some others here might question your integrity. Nice shots by the way. I had pretty good luck last year at an airshow using your same general technique and with Sun n' Fun right around the corner I'm looking forward to a few more! Just never been a big fan of road racing myself, but I can certainly appreciate a good pic when I see 'em.
03-21-2017, 02:52 PM   #44
Moderator
Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
MarkJerling's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,942
QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
I see zero reason to doubt anything you said regarding how the shots were taken, and somewhat surprised that some others here might question your integrity. Nice shots by the way. I had pretty good luck last year at an airshow using your same general technique and with Sun n' Fun right around the corner I'm looking forward to a few more! Just never been a big fan of road racing myself, but I can certainly appreciate a good pic when I see 'em.
Same here. I use the same technique as you when shooting cycling. Admittedly, racing cars move a bit quicker than bicycles!
03-21-2017, 03:58 PM   #45
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,714
QuoteOriginally posted by tromboads Quote
My camera lives in AF-C mode. for all those images AF-C was used. I don't understand where all this you cheated by using AF-S is coming from?
I did not make such a claim against you. Please reread my post.

QuoteOriginally posted by tromboads Quote
Using AF-C, I would select my target, engage the autofocus, track the subject till it was in position and take its photo. There was no AF-S all weekend.
Yes, I believe you. I always have through this thread. I've shot similar bursts at airshows with very fast flybys. Yet the results you are showing do not prove the AF tracking functions or does not function. Many different ways of focusing could get the results you are showing. It is not a convincing test for trying to reach your conclusion.

QuoteOriginally posted by tromboads Quote
Anyway, if that's all to hard for folk to accept, well your entitled to your alternative view
It isn't a case of being hard to accept, but yet, again, the type of photos you are showing do nothing to confirm or deny anything beyond you have some nice photos. It isn't I don't believe you or don't want to believe you. It is simply the results do not confirm or deny any results. They're inconclusive due to the lack of structure in the test.

Such results, while thoroughly enjoyable to watch (again thank you for sharing them all!), in the way they are presented could never confirm the end conclusion. The only way, if you really were interested, to prove the AF-C tracking functions properly would be to do the same photo shoot but this time hold down the shutter release button fully and take a spray burst. Then post all of the images in the burst.

But, even if you did this, it would only be a single case / scenario of how the tracking can operate. It is a complex matter -- There is simple X, Y, Z plane movement then there is dynamic movement using all three axis in a 'random' pattern. In honesty, they'd all need to be tested. I know this is beyond any one person and I don't expect you to go through the trouble.

I'm really surprised no one (company or review blog/magazine) has invented a method of testing AF (including AF-C multi-point tracking) across all brands. Similar to CIPA testing for Shake Reduction. It is my opinion that the modern Pentax bodies wouldn't be as bad as some claim. But I also don't think they're at the same level of the Canikonys.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
af, argument, camera, camp, car, click, corner, crap, da200, da50-135, dslr, evidence, focus, fun, k-1, market, pentax, pentax af, photography, pics, sequence, series, shot, shots, subject, track, world
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale - Sold: Sigma Contemporary 17-70mm Priced Lowered ... Great Lens at a Great Price! RDKit Sold Items 9 12-16-2016 09:29 AM
Nature Great......just great. gifthorse Post Your Photos! 7 05-04-2016 03:33 PM
For Sale - Sold: F 50/1.7 (great price, great glass, rough body) indytax Sold Items 2 08-31-2012 09:33 AM
Great news, bad news, great news! Marc Langille Photographic Technique 49 03-01-2008 08:35 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:57 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top