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08-10-2008, 04:23 AM   #1
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k10d and shake reduction?

For some time now I've been intrigued with idea of shake reduction actually bringing some bluring to photos if used when not actually needed, for example shooting at 1/200s... I did some testing with various lenses plus higher shutter speeds and can't say that I actually noticed any difference with shake reduction on vs off.

I did however notice using olympus e510 that oly version of shake reduction does produce bluring when camera is mounted on a tripod, which is normal, but it seems that shake reduction on k10d does not activate if camera is on a tripod or stationary in some other way.
For example, I take 4sec exposure, handheld, and I can clearly hear shake reduction buzzing, but when I take 4sec exposure on tripod and SR on - most of the time, it does not activate. Maybe once in 10 exposures I see blured shot when on tripod, which I belive is due to me shaking whole setup while pressing shutter button.

So, the question is: is this error, coincidence, or k10d has built-in option to turn off shake reduction when not needed?

08-10-2008, 05:15 AM   #2
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SR is automatically off when 2 sec. and 12 sec. timers are used.
08-10-2008, 10:26 AM   #3
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As to whether there is a REAL reason for turning off Shake Reduction when it's mounted on the tripod - I share that question. In all my various informal and hastily configured tests, with it ON and OFF, I frankly cannot see a bit of difference when it's mounted on the tripod.

That is in contradiction to the Owner's Manual, but that's the results I get. Has anyone else got a supporting or contradicting opinion here?
08-10-2008, 10:35 AM   #4
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From the suggestion to turn off sr when on a tripod, it does not logically follow that leaving it on will cause blurring. It just might cause it under particular circumstances.

Similarly, the reason to use a lens hood is to reduce flaring. Leaving it off however does not guaranty flaring.

08-10-2008, 10:37 AM   #5
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I have noticed no difference with it on or off when on a tripod. I leave it on all the time.
08-10-2008, 02:04 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by rogerstg Quote
From the suggestion to turn off sr when on a tripod, it does not logically follow that leaving it on will cause blurring. It just might cause it under particular circumstances.

Similarly, the reason to use a lens hood is to reduce flaring. Leaving it off however does not guaranty flaring.
true, but - other shake/vibration reduction system that I've tested produced a lot of bluring if SR was left on while mounted on tripod or stationary, results were a lot like handheld 4sec exposure... this goes for olympus and canon setup.

IMHO, this only points to fact that k10d (probably other cameras too) turns off SR when not needed, I guess there should be at least some evidence of blur, after all - Pentax shake reduction is pretty much the same as those of Olympus or Sony.

It seems I'll just have to do the test again, and this time keep the shots
08-12-2008, 10:18 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by olivergbus Quote
I have noticed no difference with it on or off when on a tripod. I leave it on all the time.

Thanks to all the answers. I also tend to leave it on all the time, on or off the tripod, just glad to find I'm not alone. Wonder why the manual makes such a "positive" statement that it should be off then?

Just for info, I do a lot of "Digiscoping", where the camera and 40mm pancake lens are attached to the eyepiece of a Swarovski AT-80-HD scope, and the camera sets the Shake Reduction to a 40mm focal length. I can't see any effect on this either.

Olin
08-13-2008, 06:23 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooneybird Quote
Thanks to all the answers. I also tend to leave it on all the time, on or off the tripod, just glad to find I'm not alone. Wonder why the manual makes such a "positive" statement that it should be off then?
I think the confusion comes from two things:
1) the SR is automatically switched off by the K10D when you're using 2/3/12s timers. MLU is also activated. It makes perfect sense and I'm glad all this is automatic.
2) If you're on a tripod and use fast shutter speeds, let's say faster than 1/4s, it shouldn't matter if the SR is on or off. But if you're doing long exposures like 10s, and do not set the timer, the SR would move the sensor even a little and create a blurry picture. That said, the K10D firmware is maybe smart enough to turn off SR if it detects long exposure times.

But for most pratical applications you can let it on and don't think about it.

08-13-2008, 08:47 AM   #9
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As Roger mentioned MIGHT is the correct answer. I use a monopod a lot and this question turns up often and I have had many shots ruined because I left the SR on. I leave my SR on most of the time and forget to turn it off sometimes and end up with blurred shots, especially while panning. I was shooting one of my daughters rowing crew races in the spring and about a third of the shots of one of the races showed blur. The next race I turned off SR and every shot came out. SR can mess up a shot sometimes and thats why the manual recommends turning it off using tripods, close ups, and moving subjects (pg. 67, K10D manual). The SR is a great feature and works very well but there are times when it can mess up a shot and the manual covers those situations. Some may want to argue the point but based on my experience if you are leaving SR on for EVERY shot, including tripods and monopods and not getting some occasional blur you are lucky.
08-13-2008, 11:12 AM   #10
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Hi reeftool

QuoteQuote:
I leave my SR on most of the time and forget to turn it off sometimes and end up with blurred shots, especially while panning.
With due respect, in this particular instance the blurred photos are entirely the fault of the photographer, NOT the
K10D ! It's a widely accepted practice to switch OFF the Shake Reduction feature when panning a shot, in order to avoid the disappointment you experienced. SR is categorically not a panacea for every situation and should only be used in appropriate circumstances. Hope this info helps for future reference,

Best regards
Richard
08-13-2008, 11:21 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Confused Quote
Hi reeftool



With due respect, in this particular instance the blurred photos are entirely the fault of the photographer, NOT the
K10D !
Kinda harsh for no reason - you might want to read the whole thread to understand the context better.
08-13-2008, 11:49 AM   #12
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Hi rogerstg

Re your comment:

QuoteQuote:
Kinda harsh for no reason
Ouch ! It wasn't meant to be, but if you happen to forget to switch off SR when panning, inevitably the resulting images will generally suffer from appreciable blurring. The K10D is a complex piece of modern technology and requires some experience to derive the best from it's myriad set of features.

Best regards
Richard
08-14-2008, 09:07 AM   #13
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Actually, that was my point and I learned my lesson. Maybe it is senior moments but I sometimes forget to check my settings. I won't mention the times I have left the camera set with the 2 second timer and ISO 1600 and then shot the next morning in bright sunlight and had the instant panic of thinking my camera was broken. LOL
08-14-2008, 02:14 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
Actually, that was my point and I learned my lesson. Maybe it is senior moments but I sometimes forget to check my settings. I won't mention the times I have left the camera set with the 2 second timer and ISO 1600 and then shot the next morning in bright sunlight and had the instant panic of thinking my camera was broken. LOL
I just came downstairs from snapping my wife cleaning up the kitchen cupboards - she just bought herself a new set of dishes - and was sitting on a pool with her crackers and salsa, with the cupboards all on the counters. I thought my AF was acting up, switched to manual focus, and the camera still would not fire.

What I had done, and do not recommend, was to press the preview button [>] while in menu mode. (I was trying to turn off the LCD.) All the displays looked as if the camera was in shooting mode, but it would not work. I must have really confused the Artificial Stupid in there with this trick! Of course the problem was with the Real Stupid behind the viewfinder. What else is new?
08-14-2008, 03:33 PM   #15
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ok, I spent better part of last hour testing k10d+50-135, first I took shots with SR on, shutter speed 10s, 2s, 1s, 1/10s and 1/100s, remote (wired) shutter release, then same shutter speeds, again with cable switch, but with SR off, then same thing, but with 2sec delay, both SR on and off, and then all this all over again, but with finger-pressing shutter release button, and final result is - while k10d is mounted on a tripod, no visible difference at any magnification level.
I took 2 shots of every setting, and I did notice some bluring where finger-pressed shutter release button, due to tripod shaking at long exposures (actually, only in one shot, SR off, 10sec exposure, second shot was clear).
in couple of days, I'll do the same with oly e510 and 20d+28-135 IS, so I'll take some time and assemble crops of all sample shots
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