Pentax DSLRs getting too heavy?

**LeChefRouge** · 04-15-2017, 11:57 PM

Maybe this analogy will go over heads of most people, but it makes perfect sense to me.

When I decided to actually get serious with being a chef I knew I needed dependable knives, but wasn't ready to take the leap into $2000 set of knives or piece together a pricey set of knives. So I bought a Shun Classic chef's knife, pairing knife, and a Wustof Ikon fillet knife(the only life I still own from that purchase). I spent about $400 for those 3 knives. Luckily, I live in a city where lower high end cutlery can be tested and tried in store, but you'll never find this sort of cutlery in stores like Wal-Mart and Costco. Sure, you can get super sharp knives for cheap from those kinds of stores, but do they hold up when abused? No. Most of the cheap knives go dull fast because they are either abused or just of poor quality and the average consumer doesnt know how to properly sharpen a knife. So when I'm asked by my friends what kind of knives they should get, I always recommend a lower high end knife because of durability and the fact that if they invest a decent amount of money into the knives, they will be more cautious in maintenance and the way they handle the knives. In the last 10 years I have pieced together a knife kit that has run me over $10,000. With that being said knives are made by several large and independent companies to suit every kind of consumer imaginable. From lightweight high carbon steel (higher maintanence) to heavier German steel(lower maintenance) to the cheap stuff you buy in big stores. For me photography is very similar because the high carbon steel and German steel knives are priced at several levels, but are usually decent knives at any level depending on personal taste. Pentax is like an awesome high end high carbon steel knife manufacturer and Canikon are the German steel manufacturers. While the german steel companies make some impressive high end knives, the lower end German steel can be found at the big stores at a premium price and the high carbon steel knives are sold in a more niche high end store like Williams and Sonoma. Companies like Shun have zero interest in being in big stores and focus more on quality at every price point. I can go off into an entire tangent about smaller independent knife makers and custom knives that compare to Lieca and Hasselbad, but that's not the point. I have sold several knives that I either didn't use or didn't like without much of a loss.

So getting back to photography, I wanted a K-1, but couldn't justify the price point for a hobby I wasn't sure of. I stuck with Pentax because of the high end lenses and backwards compatibility. I bought a new K-s2 body for $480 and then again for $400(first one was stolen by my ex). At that price I get the most bang for my buck and have an array of amazing glass to choose from. I only buy lenses that can be used full frame for the sole reason of hoping to go full frame. Plus I've realized that the DA primes sell for a lot less when used.

So if you're going to stick with a higher end and niche company stop complaining about what's not available and take advantage of what is available. Sure, I wish I could own a lighter high carbon steel fillet knife, but the reality is the German steel is better suited for the job. At the same time I wish my custom made Gyoto was about 100 grams heavier, but it's not possible for the performance I get.

Trickortreat · 04-16-2017, 01:08 AM

My photography journey started with medium format film then later i switched to full format and have used probably every single manufacturers camera being produced at the time...
Wit the advent of digital i switched to ff Nikon and then to aps-c Nikon.
Few years ago my D300S started to get heavy so i started looking for a lighter camera. Most important feature on the list (or only 2 of them because i dont need anything else for my photography needs) were: 1. as light as it can be and 2. have a bright quality 100% coverage optical viewfinder. So all of my life i was going from heavier to lighter cameras and i doubt that will change. Im happy to know that my soon to be ks1 and da40xs is probably the lightest combo for the forseeable future.
For the time being - these are the forum i can complain all thate i like. Cusomers are always right

starbase218 · 04-16-2017, 04:27 AM - **1 Like**

I don't mind the size of the camera so much, but weight I do mind. So I'm kind of with you.

Trickortreat · 04-16-2017, 04:58 AM

I know. Thats why mirrorless halved the sales of dslrs. At lesat half of those who flocked to mirrorles went there because they are light. People like light. Everything is becoming lighter. I tought to switch to m43 too, but couldnt stand another lcd screen infront of my eyes.

D1N0 · 04-16-2017, 05:24 AM

The success of mirrorless is really compactness, not weight. Dslr's can weigh less than mirrorless.

Nikon D3400 vs Olympus E-M5 Size Comparison

normhead · 04-16-2017, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

My photography journey started with medium format film then later i switched to full format and have used probably every single manufacturers camera being produced at the time...
Wit the advent of digital i switched to ff Nikon and then to aps-c Nikon.
Few years ago my D300S started to get heavy so i started looking for a lighter camera. Most important feature on the list (or only 2 of them because i dont need anything else for my photography needs) were: 1. as light as it can be and 2. have a bright quality 100% coverage optical viewfinder. So all of my life i was going from heavier to lighter cameras and i doubt that will change. Im happy to know that my soon to be ks1 and da40xs is probably the lightest combo for the forseeable future.
For the time being - these are the forum i can complain all thate i like. Cusomers are always right

A lot of guys in your position have gone to M4/3 or lighter.

Trickortreat · 04-16-2017, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

The success of mirrorless is really compactness, not weight. Dslr's can weigh less than mirrorless.

Nikon D3400 vs Olympus E-M5 Size Comparison

I know but e-m5 is more in category of d7500. Fair comparison for d3400 would be dmc-gm1. Besides, when m43 was introduced there werent any enthusiast oriented models (i could be wrong my interes in mirrorless was short lived) and they were lighter dhan dslrs. Good thing dslr manufacturers started to cut weight at that time to stay competitive.

D1N0 · 04-16-2017, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Fair comparison for d3400 would be dmc-gm1.

Nope that's just cherry picking that one is as smaller as the Pentax q and it doesn't have a viewfinder. The cheaper e-m10 is even 1 gram heavier. Nikon D3400 vs Olympus E-M10 Size Comparison

reh321 · 04-16-2017, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Fill me in. What did he mean by this? That Canon and Pentax lenses are superior to Sigma and Nikon ones?.

You would need to ask him.
The important part of his post, the reason I quoted it, was the first few sentences

Originally posted by GlassJunkie

Friends and Skeptics....

PLEASE, oh PLEASE go back and watch/read the interview of the RP CEO of 2 years ago. All will be clear. PENTAX IS GOING UPTOWN.

KP was positioned so they can dump the lessers and be ahead of competitors and have better glass....

Trickortreat · 04-16-2017, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

Nope that's just cherry picking that one is as smaller as the Pentax q and it doesn't have a viewfinder. The cheaper e-m10 is even 1 gram heavier. Nikon D3400 vs Olympus E-M10 Size Comparison

Its not cherry picking. I am 100% sure i am comparig cameras in the same market segment. Viewfinder or not... lightest m43 to lighteset entry level dslr

reh321 · 04-16-2017, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

...
Customers are always right

This is a misuse of the phrase.

Pentax is not going to make a camera wanted by a small subset of their customers, even one wanted by a small subset of potential customers.
They need sufficient volume to pay for R&D, fixed costs, and their "opportunity costs" (*)

I agree with you that a smaller camera would be nice; I have held up my Super Program as a good example of how small some film cameras were. On the other hand, my K-30 is the 9th "primary camera" I've had beginning with my first adjustable camera, which I purchased in 1969; of the previous eight, two were ruined by water, so I'm not willing to give up WR to get small. In dark situations, I sometimes find myself using my K-30 in LV mode for framing, because this camera, even when I limit its ISO setting to 1600, can see better in the dark than I can; modified zombie mode is an awkward way to take pictures, so personally I'd really like a camera with an EVF, but Pentax doesn't seem to agree with me, and I'm not going to rant about that. I'd really like an EVF-equipped "Q"; I have basically begged for one here at the PF, but I'm not going to rant about that either.

At some time, once you have made your point, it is time to ease up and not add to the clutter here. I reached that point with EVF's, especially with the "Q", and honestly I think you've passed that point in this thread.

(*) opportunity cost is a term used by economists which basically refers to resources that could be used elsewhere.

---------- Post added 04-16-17 at 10:57 AM ----------

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Its not cherry picking. I am 100% sure i am comparig cameras in the same market segment. Viewfinder or not... lightest m43 to lighteset entry level dslr

MFT sensor is smaller; you expect the camera and its lenses to be smaller.

Perhaps "cherry pick" is the wrong word, but the point is that it isn't a fair comparison, any more than would be comparing an FF camera to an MF camera or a "view" camera.

D1N0 · 04-16-2017, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Its not cherry picking. I am 100% sure i am comparig cameras in the same market segment. Viewfinder or not... lightest m43 to lighteset entry level dslr

whatever man. good bye

Trickortreat · 04-16-2017, 08:08 AM

i know i made my point. just killing time here till my ks1 arrives... besides, wife went to her mother for holidays the weather is bad and i got nothing better to do

i know the sensor difference. just stating that m43 got their audience cause of weight. that was one of their selling points from the start. the other is compactness...

---------- Post added 04-16-17 at 05:08 PM ----------

Originally posted by D1N0

whatever man. good bye

bye man

reh321 · 04-16-2017, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

... besides, wife went to her mother for holidays the weather is bad and i got nothing better to do

.....

I've taken pictures in snowstorms and in rain with my K-30

normhead · 04-16-2017, 08:54 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Trickortreat

i know i made my point. just killing time here till my ks1 arrives

Glad we could help out.

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04-15-2017, 11:57 PM	#136
LeChefRouge Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Huntsville, AL Photos: Gallery Posts: 92	Maybe this analogy will go over heads of most people, but it makes perfect sense to me. When I decided to actually get serious with being a chef I knew I needed dependable knives, but wasn't ready to take the leap into $2000 set of knives or piece together a pricey set of knives. So I bought a Shun Classic chef's knife, pairing knife, and a Wustof Ikon fillet knife(the only life I still own from that purchase). I spent about $400 for those 3 knives. Luckily, I live in a city where lower high end cutlery can be tested and tried in store, but you'll never find this sort of cutlery in stores like Wal-Mart and Costco. Sure, you can get super sharp knives for cheap from those kinds of stores, but do they hold up when abused? No. Most of the cheap knives go dull fast because they are either abused or just of poor quality and the average consumer doesnt know how to properly sharpen a knife. So when I'm asked by my friends what kind of knives they should get, I always recommend a lower high end knife because of durability and the fact that if they invest a decent amount of money into the knives, they will be more cautious in maintenance and the way they handle the knives. In the last 10 years I have pieced together a knife kit that has run me over $10,000. With that being said knives are made by several large and independent companies to suit every kind of consumer imaginable. From lightweight high carbon steel (higher maintanence) to heavier German steel(lower maintenance) to the cheap stuff you buy in big stores. For me photography is very similar because the high carbon steel and German steel knives are priced at several levels, but are usually decent knives at any level depending on personal taste. Pentax is like an awesome high end high carbon steel knife manufacturer and Canikon are the German steel manufacturers. While the german steel companies make some impressive high end knives, the lower end German steel can be found at the big stores at a premium price and the high carbon steel knives are sold in a more niche high end store like Williams and Sonoma. Companies like Shun have zero interest in being in big stores and focus more on quality at every price point. I can go off into an entire tangent about smaller independent knife makers and custom knives that compare to Lieca and Hasselbad, but that's not the point. I have sold several knives that I either didn't use or didn't like without much of a loss. So getting back to photography, I wanted a K-1, but couldn't justify the price point for a hobby I wasn't sure of. I stuck with Pentax because of the high end lenses and backwards compatibility. I bought a new K-s2 body for $480 and then again for $400(first one was stolen by my ex). At that price I get the most bang for my buck and have an array of amazing glass to choose from. I only buy lenses that can be used full frame for the sole reason of hoping to go full frame. Plus I've realized that the DA primes sell for a lot less when used. So if you're going to stick with a higher end and niche company stop complaining about what's not available and take advantage of what is available. Sure, I wish I could own a lighter high carbon steel fillet knife, but the reality is the German steel is better suited for the job. At the same time I wish my custom made Gyoto was about 100 grams heavier, but it's not possible for the performance I get.

04-16-2017, 01:08 AM	#137
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561 Original Poster	My photography journey started with medium format film then later i switched to full format and have used probably every single manufacturers camera being produced at the time... Wit the advent of digital i switched to ff Nikon and then to aps-c Nikon. Few years ago my D300S started to get heavy so i started looking for a lighter camera. Most important feature on the list (or only 2 of them because i dont need anything else for my photography needs) were: 1. as light as it can be and 2. have a bright quality 100% coverage optical viewfinder. So all of my life i was going from heavier to lighter cameras and i doubt that will change. Im happy to know that my soon to be ks1 and da40xs is probably the lightest combo for the forseeable future. For the time being - these are the forum i can complain all thate i like. Cusomers are always right

04-16-2017, 04:27 AM - 1 Like	#138
starbase218 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy, Universe Posts: 1,119	I don't mind the size of the camera so much, but weight I do mind. So I'm kind of with you.

04-16-2017, 04:58 AM	#139
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561 Original Poster	I know. Thats why mirrorless halved the sales of dslrs. At lesat half of those who flocked to mirrorles went there because they are light. People like light. Everything is becoming lighter. I tought to switch to m43 too, but couldnt stand another lcd screen infront of my eyes.

04-16-2017, 05:24 AM	#140
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	The success of mirrorless is really compactness, not weight. Dslr's can weigh less than mirrorless. Nikon D3400 vs Olympus E-M5 Size Comparison

04-16-2017, 06:15 AM	#141
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Trickortreat My photography journey started with medium format film then later i switched to full format and have used probably every single manufacturers camera being produced at the time... Wit the advent of digital i switched to ff Nikon and then to aps-c Nikon. Few years ago my D300S started to get heavy so i started looking for a lighter camera. Most important feature on the list (or only 2 of them because i dont need anything else for my photography needs) were: 1. as light as it can be and 2. have a bright quality 100% coverage optical viewfinder. So all of my life i was going from heavier to lighter cameras and i doubt that will change. Im happy to know that my soon to be ks1 and da40xs is probably the lightest combo for the forseeable future. For the time being - these are the forum i can complain all thate i like. Cusomers are always right A lot of guys in your position have gone to M4/3 or lighter.

04-16-2017, 06:57 AM	#142
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561 Original Poster	Originally posted by D1N0 The success of mirrorless is really compactness, not weight. Dslr's can weigh less than mirrorless. Nikon D3400 vs Olympus E-M5 Size Comparison I know but e-m5 is more in category of d7500. Fair comparison for d3400 would be dmc-gm1. Besides, when m43 was introduced there werent any enthusiast oriented models (i could be wrong my interes in mirrorless was short lived) and they were lighter dhan dslrs. Good thing dslr manufacturers started to cut weight at that time to stay competitive.

04-16-2017, 07:11 AM	#143
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by Trickortreat Fair comparison for d3400 would be dmc-gm1. Nope that's just cherry picking that one is as smaller as the Pentax q and it doesn't have a viewfinder. The cheaper e-m10 is even 1 gram heavier. Nikon D3400 vs Olympus E-M10 Size Comparison

04-16-2017, 07:36 AM	#144
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by Trickortreat Fill me in. What did he mean by this? That Canon and Pentax lenses are superior to Sigma and Nikon ones?. You would need to ask him. The important part of his post, the reason I quoted it, was the first few sentences Originally posted by GlassJunkie Friends and Skeptics.... PLEASE, oh PLEASE go back and watch/read the interview of the RP CEO of 2 years ago. All will be clear. PENTAX IS GOING UPTOWN. KP was positioned so they can dump the lessers and be ahead of competitors and have better glass....

04-16-2017, 07:53 AM	#145
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561 Original Poster	Originally posted by D1N0 Nope that's just cherry picking that one is as smaller as the Pentax q and it doesn't have a viewfinder. The cheaper e-m10 is even 1 gram heavier. Nikon D3400 vs Olympus E-M10 Size Comparison Its not cherry picking. I am 100% sure i am comparig cameras in the same market segment. Viewfinder or not... lightest m43 to lighteset entry level dslr

04-16-2017, 07:53 AM	#146
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by Trickortreat ... Customers are always right This is a misuse of the phrase. Pentax is not going to make a camera wanted by a small subset of their customers, even one wanted by a small subset of potential customers. They need sufficient volume to pay for R&D, fixed costs, and their "opportunity costs" () I agree with you that a smaller camera would be nice; I have held up my Super Program as a good example of how small some film cameras were. On the other hand, my K-30 is the 9th "primary camera" I've had beginning with my first adjustable camera, which I purchased in 1969; of the previous eight, two were ruined by water, so I'm not willing to give up WR to get small. In dark situations, I sometimes find myself using my K-30 in LV mode for framing, because this camera, even when I limit its ISO setting to 1600, can see better in the dark than I can; modified zombie mode is an awkward way to take pictures, so personally I'd really like a camera with an EVF, but Pentax doesn't seem to agree with me, and I'm not going to rant about that. I'd really like an EVF-equipped "Q"; I have basically begged for one here at the PF, but I'm not going to rant about that either. At some time, once you have made your point, it is time to ease up and not add to the clutter here. I reached that point with EVF's, especially with the "Q", and honestly I think you've passed that point in this thread. () opportunity cost is a term used by economists which basically refers to resources that could be used elsewhere. ---------- Post added 04-16-17 at 10:57 AM ---------- Originally posted by Trickortreat Its not cherry picking. I am 100% sure i am comparig cameras in the same market segment. Viewfinder or not... lightest m43 to lighteset entry level dslr MFT sensor is smaller; you expect the camera and its lenses to be smaller. Perhaps "cherry pick" is the wrong word, but the point is that it isn't a fair comparison, any more than would be comparing an FF camera to an MF camera or a "view" camera.

04-16-2017, 08:05 AM	#147
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by Trickortreat Its not cherry picking. I am 100% sure i am comparig cameras in the same market segment. Viewfinder or not... lightest m43 to lighteset entry level dslr whatever man. good bye

04-16-2017, 08:08 AM	#148
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561 Original Poster	i know i made my point. just killing time here till my ks1 arrives... besides, wife went to her mother for holidays the weather is bad and i got nothing better to do i know the sensor difference. just stating that m43 got their audience cause of weight. that was one of their selling points from the start. the other is compactness... ---------- Post added 04-16-17 at 05:08 PM ---------- Originally posted by D1N0 whatever man. good bye bye man

04-16-2017, 08:24 AM	#149
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by Trickortreat ... besides, wife went to her mother for holidays the weather is bad and i got nothing better to do ..... I've taken pictures in snowstorms and in rain with my K-30

04-16-2017, 08:54 AM - 1 Like	#150
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Trickortreat i know i made my point. just killing time here till my ks1 arrives Glad we could help out.