A case for the supremacy of Pentax AF

Dan Rentea · 06-06-2017, 05:23 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by normhead

I have to say, after all the posts on the forum about Pentax tracking, I'm surprised with the camera, and disappointed with a lot of self proclaimed experts.

For this set of images you used an old trick as does also the experienced photographers to take particular images.

And I'll explain myself...

1. What cought my atention in the first place in the example of yours is the position of the bird's wings from frame 1 to frame 9. Giving the fact that the position of the wings is the same on each shot, I know for a fact that the seagull was flying over something (a cruise flight as we call it). When its flying like that, the bird is not flying with speed, so it's easier to catch the bird in focus.
2. The second trick is to use a lens with a short focal lenght and also a large aperture, in your case a 200mm lens and an aperture of f11. At this focal lenght and with this aperture is kind of easy to catch a big bird in flight. You have enough DOF at this focal length so that user error to be reduced to minimum.

Nevertheless, it's still a good example of tracking and it can motivate people who always blaim their cameras for their errors.

P.S. You need to clean your sensor from dust spots.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 06-09-2017 at 12:25 AM.

normhead · 06-06-2017, 07:13 AM

Now you're giving me advice on what I should shoot? The closer you are, the shorter lens you can use, and the less distortion you'll get from atmospheric effects. "If you don't like our images get closer." You could call it cheating (if you want to be derogatory) but you could also just call it good photographic technique. It doesn't surprise me you'd go with the derogatory referring to my photographs. It's what you always do.

**seagas** · 06-06-2017, 08:22 AM - **1 Like**

Dan, the term cheating, no matter how flattering you attempt to make, is a derogatory term and I can see Norm taking offense to it. If you simply said good photographic technique, which I believe you're trying to say, it would probably be taken better.

Norm great shoots and thank you for showing what we can accomplish!

Kunzite · 06-06-2017, 08:38 AM - **1 Like**

seagas, I'm not sure about English but in Romanian ("trisat") it can be used as Dan did. Maybe even in English it's not always derogatory - 'cheating death' for example. In both cases it's about turning the odds in your favor; which if anything it's praise worthy.
While Dan using this term was uninspired, we should accept that he meant no harm/insult whatsoever.

normhead · 06-06-2017, 09:03 AM

Quoted below.

Dan Rentea · 06-06-2017, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Let's just end this. I'm asking you to use terminology with less negative connotations and meanings.
I'm asking you to stick to technique, and stay away from vernacular labels applied to technique.
And I'm asking you to stick to the discussion of the thread title. The thread is about Pentax AF, a discussion of what "cheating" is or isn't, just isn't appropriate.

And I'd also suggest it would be provocative, if you didn't dress how I took the images. You were in part right, but not the whole story. There were many images where I caught the gulls flying across the lake, not at all concerned about the "cruise ship" thing. I'm not sure I want to spend time correcting your assumptions. If you want the whole story ask. DOn't assume you know.

Simple enough?

Normhead, I'm sory if you took it personal. I'm more relaxed in this kind of conversations and if you take it so seriously, then I'll choose with more care my words when we get into a discussion with you.

I was not talking about the all images you took across the lake. I was talking only about the series of 9 images. I know I'm right regarding those 9 images and I told you why.

I'm not posting images again to back up my comment because you're not in a good mood, but if you want to elaborate the subject, I have around 235 images with seagulls in flight.

normhead · 06-06-2017, 09:29 AM

Irrelevant post removed to clean u thread.

The main point was, the thread is about how to achieve results with Pentax gear with the model and setting so Pentax owners can copy and try those settings.

Last edited by normhead; 06-09-2017 at 04:34 AM.

Kevriano · 06-06-2017, 10:41 AM

So here I was, about to ask if the AF performance of the K3 II is notably better than the K3, as I have been struggling a little of late, and this fab post crops up at the top of the subjects. I will be trying your method next outing, because it sure makes a lot of sense, and it's got to be worth trying, given your quality images, so Thanks!

normhead · 06-06-2017, 10:43 AM - **1 Like**

Thread cleaning.

**luftfluss** · 06-06-2017, 11:07 AM - **1 Like**

normhead · 06-06-2017, 12:28 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Dan Rentea

It is not polite to treat people as you do and also bare in mind you are only a member on this forum with the same rights as mine. When you will have your own forum, you can make your own rules. Until then, I think you crossed the line a little and I kindly ask an admin to intervene. I already appologize because you took my initial comment in the wrong way, but I'm not going to allow you to talk to me like that.

It's in your nature to get "into a fight" in almost any topic you're commenting, I get that, but enough it's enough.

If any mods respond, I seriously hope they'll ban you from the thread. I can't stop you and I'm on the verge of abandoning the thread, which is as far as I can tell was your whole purpose. It would be great if you could discuss Pentax AF with us for a camera made in the last 5 years, but you can't, so this is what you do. Distract and deflect.

Not every thread is about "What Dan wants to talk about." Some are about how to get good images specifically with a Pentax."

Dan Rentea · 06-06-2017, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by normhead

If any mods respond, I seriously hope they'll ban you from the thread. I can't stop you and I'm on the verge of abandoning the thread, which is as far as I can tell was your whole purpose. It would be great if you could discuss Pentax AF with us for a camera made in the last 5 years, but you can't, so this is what you do. Distract and deflect.

Not every thread is about "What Dan wants to talk about." Some are about how to get good images specifically with a Pentax."

We can discuss about the af from: K-5 II (I used this camera for 2 years), K-3 II (I used it 6 months and I still use it when I go out with my friend who has one), K-1 (a camera I used side by side with 5D Mark IV on a few paid jobs).

Kevriano · 06-06-2017, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by normhead

If any mods respond, I seriously hope they'll ban you from the thread. I can't stop you and I'm on the verge of abandoning the thread, which is as far as I can tell was your whole purpose. It would be great if you could discuss Pentax AF with us for a camera made in the last 5 years, but you can't, so this is what you do. Distract and deflect.

Not every thread is about "What Dan wants to talk about." Some are about how to get good images specifically with a Pentax."

Don't give up the thread. I have just tried your method, it's very useful. So, just in case, a big big thanks.

normhead · 06-07-2017, 05:36 PM - **2 Likes**

K-1 and AF.c 33 auto, ISO 1600, ƒ11. Shutter speed, /1600s or 1/2000s,

K-1 and DA*200 with HD DA 1.4 TC

Cliff swallows make their nests with mud. If you happen to notice where they are getting the mud from.....
1.

2,

3,

4.

GlennG · 06-07-2017, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by normhead

From this morning's shoot 2017-04-23 10:23am - 10.53 Am. so a half hour in the blind.

Originally posted by bwgv001

great pictures

Just noticed the thread, Norm, and yes, I certainly agree - great pictures!

06-06-2017, 07:13 AM	#32
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Now you're giving me advice on what I should shoot? The closer you are, the shorter lens you can use, and the less distortion you'll get from atmospheric effects. "If you don't like our images get closer." You could call it cheating (if you want to be derogatory) but you could also just call it good photographic technique. It doesn't surprise me you'd go with the derogatory referring to my photographs. It's what you always do. Last edited by normhead; 06-27-2017 at 07:30 PM.

06-06-2017, 09:03 AM	#35
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Quoted below. Last edited by normhead; 06-09-2017 at 04:31 AM.

06-06-2017, 10:43 AM - 1 Like	#39
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Thread cleaning. Last edited by normhead; 06-09-2017 at 04:35 AM.

06-06-2017, 12:51 PM	#42
Dan Rentea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bucharest Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by normhead If any mods respond, I seriously hope they'll ban you from the thread. I can't stop you and I'm on the verge of abandoning the thread, which is as far as I can tell was your whole purpose. It would be great if you could discuss Pentax AF with us for a camera made in the last 5 years, but you can't, so this is what you do. Distract and deflect. Not every thread is about "What Dan wants to talk about." Some are about how to get good images specifically with a Pentax." We can discuss about the af from: K-5 II (I used this camera for 2 years), K-3 II (I used it 6 months and I still use it when I go out with my friend who has one), K-1 (a camera I used side by side with 5D Mark IV on a few paid jobs). Last edited by Dan Rentea; 06-09-2017 at 12:32 AM.

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06-06-2017, 05:23 AM - 1 Like	#31
Dan Rentea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bucharest Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by normhead I have to say, after all the posts on the forum about Pentax tracking, I'm surprised with the camera, and disappointed with a lot of self proclaimed experts. For this set of images you used an old trick as does also the experienced photographers to take particular images. And I'll explain myself... 1. What cought my atention in the first place in the example of yours is the position of the bird's wings from frame 1 to frame 9. Giving the fact that the position of the wings is the same on each shot, I know for a fact that the seagull was flying over something (a cruise flight as we call it). When its flying like that, the bird is not flying with speed, so it's easier to catch the bird in focus. 2. The second trick is to use a lens with a short focal lenght and also a large aperture, in your case a 200mm lens and an aperture of f11. At this focal lenght and with this aperture is kind of easy to catch a big bird in flight. You have enough DOF at this focal length so that user error to be reduced to minimum. Nevertheless, it's still a good example of tracking and it can motivate people who always blaim their cameras for their errors. P.S. You need to clean your sensor from dust spots. Last edited by Dan Rentea; 06-09-2017 at 12:25 AM.

06-06-2017, 08:22 AM - 1 Like	#33
seagas Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: SWFL most of the year other wise NEWI Photos: Albums Posts: 85	Dan, the term cheating, no matter how flattering you attempt to make, is a derogatory term and I can see Norm taking offense to it. If you simply said good photographic technique, which I believe you're trying to say, it would probably be taken better. Norm great shoots and thank you for showing what we can accomplish!

06-06-2017, 08:38 AM - 1 Like	#34
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	seagas, I'm not sure about English but in Romanian ("trisat") it can be used as Dan did. Maybe even in English it's not always derogatory - 'cheating death' for example. In both cases it's about turning the odds in your favor; which if anything it's praise worthy. While Dan using this term was uninspired, we should accept that he meant no harm/insult whatsoever.

06-06-2017, 09:20 AM	#36
Dan Rentea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Bucharest Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by normhead Let's just end this. I'm asking you to use terminology with less negative connotations and meanings. I'm asking you to stick to technique, and stay away from vernacular labels applied to technique. And I'm asking you to stick to the discussion of the thread title. The thread is about Pentax AF, a discussion of what "cheating" is or isn't, just isn't appropriate. And I'd also suggest it would be provocative, if you didn't dress how I took the images. You were in part right, but not the whole story. There were many images where I caught the gulls flying across the lake, not at all concerned about the "cruise ship" thing. I'm not sure I want to spend time correcting your assumptions. If you want the whole story ask. DOn't assume you know. Simple enough? Normhead, I'm sory if you took it personal. I'm more relaxed in this kind of conversations and if you take it so seriously, then I'll choose with more care my words when we get into a discussion with you. I was not talking about the all images you took across the lake. I was talking only about the series of 9 images. I know I'm right regarding those 9 images and I told you why. I'm not posting images again to back up my comment because you're not in a good mood, but if you want to elaborate the subject, I have around 235 images with seagulls in flight.

06-06-2017, 09:29 AM	#37
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Irrelevant post removed to clean u thread. The main point was, the thread is about how to achieve results with Pentax gear with the model and setting so Pentax owners can copy and try those settings. Last edited by normhead; 06-09-2017 at 04:34 AM.

06-06-2017, 10:41 AM	#38
Kevriano Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: West Sussex Posts: 472	So here I was, about to ask if the AF performance of the K3 II is notably better than the K3, as I have been struggling a little of late, and this fab post crops up at the top of the subjects. I will be trying your method next outing, because it sure makes a lot of sense, and it's got to be worth trying, given your quality images, so Thanks!

06-06-2017, 11:07 AM - 1 Like	#40
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619

06-06-2017, 12:28 PM - 1 Like	#41
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Originally posted by Dan Rentea It is not polite to treat people as you do and also bare in mind you are only a member on this forum with the same rights as mine. When you will have your own forum, you can make your own rules. Until then, I think you crossed the line a little and I kindly ask an admin to intervene. I already appologize because you took my initial comment in the wrong way, but I'm not going to allow you to talk to me like that. It's in your nature to get "into a fight" in almost any topic you're commenting, I get that, but enough it's enough. If any mods respond, I seriously hope they'll ban you from the thread. I can't stop you and I'm on the verge of abandoning the thread, which is as far as I can tell was your whole purpose. It would be great if you could discuss Pentax AF with us for a camera made in the last 5 years, but you can't, so this is what you do. Distract and deflect. Not every thread is about "What Dan wants to talk about." Some are about how to get good images specifically with a Pentax."

06-06-2017, 01:24 PM	#43
Kevriano Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: West Sussex Posts: 472	Originally posted by normhead If any mods respond, I seriously hope they'll ban you from the thread. I can't stop you and I'm on the verge of abandoning the thread, which is as far as I can tell was your whole purpose. It would be great if you could discuss Pentax AF with us for a camera made in the last 5 years, but you can't, so this is what you do. Distract and deflect. Not every thread is about "What Dan wants to talk about." Some are about how to get good images specifically with a Pentax." Don't give up the thread. I have just tried your method, it's very useful. So, just in case, a big big thanks.

06-07-2017, 05:36 PM - 2 Likes	#44
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	K-1 and AF.c 33 auto, ISO 1600, ƒ11. Shutter speed, /1600s or 1/2000s, K-1 and DA*200 with HD DA 1.4 TC Cliff swallows make their nests with mud. If you happen to notice where they are getting the mud from..... 1. 2, 3, 4.

06-07-2017, 06:18 PM	#45
GlennG Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 824	Originally posted by normhead From this morning's shoot 2017-04-23 10:23am - 10.53 Am. so a half hour in the blind. Originally posted by bwgv001 great pictures Just noticed the thread, Norm, and yes, I certainly agree - great pictures!