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04-28-2017, 06:34 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
How did the pictures turn out?
Better than not having it, especially considering I was using a K-30.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'm always waiting to see that image taken in poor light that will make me say "I really want to shoot in the dark."
The question is not wanting. The question is what was the alternative?


Last edited by reh321; 04-28-2017 at 06:44 AM.
04-28-2017, 06:41 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'm always waiting to see that image taken in poor light that will make me say "I really want to shoot in the dark."
I think there are some rock concert photos that I see Kenpo and others post that are pretty impressive, but I think they are shot with auto focus and not with manual focus. Even the best EVFs tend to get laggy and grainy when it is dark enough that auto focus systems on the K3/K-1 wouldn't work.
04-28-2017, 06:43 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Imaging Resources gallery is much more informative: Sony A9 Review: Now Shooting!
Yes, and it is also more enthusiast about A9 challenging top canon and nikon machine gun flagships!

---------- Post added 04-28-17 at 04:02 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Pentax doesn't have to produce a high-speed mirrorless, trying to out-speed Sony. It needs to produce a FF mirrorless with Pentax body ergonomics, back-compatibility with all K-mount lenses, and the option of mounting other lenses (including Leica M) via adapters while maintaining infinity focus. I would go for it in pre-order.
I never said Pentax should develop a fast action camera.

I am just wondering when will the DSLR technology become obsolete because of the fast improving performance of mirrorless cameras.

Sony is obviously challenging top end action DSLR by Canon and Pentax.
They have the big money from the sensor business, the technology, and a first unexpected success with the A7 series. They also have proven that they learn fast about ergonomics, haptics and customers expectations.

If their technology wins the high end pro market, then Canon and Nikon will need to follow to keep their market share.

Medium and entry level DSLR market shares (in both FF and APS-C) wont be immeditely affected; but next step could be this technology spreading down to these, and DSLR sales within a few years from now could collapse as fast as did film cameras 15 years ago.

If this happens, Pentax will have to go mirrorless to survive.

How and when, I dont know, it is not my job. But, looking at what is coming out, I believe strategic decisions will soon be needed as regards R&D priorities for Ricoh Imaging future.
04-28-2017, 07:52 AM - 4 Likes   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tatouzou Quote
I never said Pentax should develop a fast action camera.

I am just wondering when will the DSLR technology become obsolete because of the fast improving performance of mirrorless cameras.

Sony is obviously challenging top end action DSLR by Canon and Pentax.
I assume you meant Canon and Nikon.

So this whole thread is a fallacy. As you noted, Pentax does not do high end action cameras. Not their market. Zero offerings in that area.

Which means that if someone releases a game-changing camera in that market (we'll see if that's the case), in which Pentax doesn't even participate, that does not mean Pentax is doomed. It does not mean Pentax needs to go mirrorless. To say they do, is a completely non-sequitur.

QuoteQuote:
If this happens, Pentax will have to go mirrorless to survive.

How and when, I dont know, it is not my job. But, looking at what is coming out, I believe strategic decisions will soon be needed as regards R&D priorities for Ricoh Imaging future.
People have been saying this baloney since what, 2010-2011? That mirrorless was going to kill the DSLR in two years? So now, 5+ years, and DSLRs still sell more than mirrorless.

And as someone pointed out, the point is moot anyway, because they're both just types of ILCs. There is absolutely no reason one would "kill" the other. It's like saying, 4-wheel drive cars will kill 2-wheel drive cars. Or mountain bikes will kill road bikes. Guess what, they're just different types of things that appeal to different people and I for one am very glad for the variety of options. DSLRs and mirrorless are not contradictions. They're just two slightly different versions of the same thing. To say otherwise is, well, just not very smart.

04-28-2017, 07:57 AM - 2 Likes   #20
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DSLR - Nikon, Canon, Pentax.

Mirrorless - Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji.

Notwithstanding that Sony had Minolta's operations handed to it on a plate, camera systems are not in Sony's DNA, nor in Panasonic's - of the mirrorless kings, only Olympus and Fuji have a photographic heritage.

Sooner or later, IMO, Fuji is going to wipe Sony out. Then it will start work on whichever of the big two DSLR makers has the most bloat. Pentax's big hope for survival is that it occupies too small a market share to be worth destroying, while Fuji aren't big on IBIS, and IBIS with lens back-compatibility is one of Pentax's really big strengths. Olympus may survive because MFT is a parallel niche, and like full-frame, it's not a niche Fuji is desperate to compete in. Panasonic's MFT-MILCs are as big as dSLRs these days, and that may kill it.
04-28-2017, 07:58 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by robiles Quote
I sure hope DSLR's will have a long and happy life. Due to my job i am required to look into a monitor at least 8h a day, so i hope i wont be forced to do so in my free time enjoying the nature or traveling randomly.
Have you tried lowering the camera from your eye for a moment?

QuoteQuote:
I am not a pro photgrapher and i only use single frame shooting, and i do not think that will change in the near future.
The speed and responsiveness of my Olympus E-M5 was very easy to get used to. And although I rarely find a need for burst shooting or much low-light shooting, one time I went to an anvil shoot in the wee morning hours (for Armistice Day), and machine-gunning away (at 9 FPS) with the E-M5 got the shots I wanted.

QuoteQuote:
edit: i am a technology freak, would like to always have the latest and greatest tech, but sometimes technology ruins things.
For example i prefer the sound of vinyl compared to mp3 (although they are a pain storage wise), the sound of a high performance internal combustion engine, and the sound of the shutter and look of an ovf
I am a technology freak too, and I favor audio CDs, electric cars and EVFs.

I can't help feeling that mirrorless cameras are gradually going to win out. Also, I would love to see some full-frame mirrorless competitor to Sony. I basically got my Sony A7 so I could use "vintage" Pentax lenses, much better than using them on any Pentax DSLR.
04-28-2017, 08:02 AM - 1 Like   #22
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I just think there is no winning the argument of EVF versus OVF. Some people like one and some the other. But honestly, if the price is right, most people can deal with either one.

On the other hand, I do think the "benefits" of mirrorless are overstated. A high end SLR and a high end mirrorless camera (say a D5 and A9) will be pretty similar with regard to performance, assuming similar lenses and size differences will be minimal with anything but slow lenses or really wide angle lenses.
04-28-2017, 08:06 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
And as someone pointed out, the point is moot anyway, because they're both just types of ILCs. There is absolutely no reason one would "kill" the other. It's like saying, 4-wheel drive cars will kill 2-wheel drive cars. Or mountain bikes will kill road bikes.
But these are cameras. TLRs killed 4X5 press cameras, and then 35mm SLRs killed TLRs. And then digital killed film. And then smartphones killed digital compacts.

04-28-2017, 08:07 AM - 4 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tatouzou Quote

I am just wondering when will the DSLR technology become obsolete because of the fast improving performance of mirrorless cameras.
That's very unlikely due to some remaining intrinsic disadvantages of MILC (higher sensor temperatures, visual lag especially in low light, high continuous power consumption for framing/waiting). It will be interesting to see how many sports photographers can spend 3-4 solid hours watching and photographing a game through an EVF without getting a headache or nausea.

Moreover, the chance of DSLR obsolescence goes to zero if DSLR makers perfect a hybrid viewfinder which gives the best of both worlds (EVF or OVF at the touch of a button) for a modest cost that enthusiast & pro photographers obviously are willing to pay for good technology.

Finally, even if MILC dominates, DSLRs can remain a viable niche for companies that know how to manage a high-technology but low-volume business (which is Ricoh more so than Canon and Nikon who are saddled with huge factories and huge overhead costs).

I'm not saying Ricoh won't introduce a MILC some day but it seems very unlikely that their survival depends on it.
04-28-2017, 08:11 AM - 1 Like   #25
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Do we have a glossary for all of these acronyms? EVF, OVF, MILC, etc?
04-28-2017, 08:15 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
But these are cameras. TLRs killed 4X5 press cameras, and then 35mm SLRs killed TLRs. And then digital killed film. And then smartphones killed digital compacts.
Smartphones are quite different from compact cameras.

Digital cameras are quite different from film cameras.

DSLRs and mirrorless are not that different. My wife doesn't know the difference. My kids don't know the difference. It can't be seen or felt in use (unless the mirrorless has an option for silent shutter, but most people don't even use that). Even cell phones have shutter sound...

Did the automatic transmission kill the manual transmission? If you're in the US you might think so (even though almost 4% of the cars are still sold with manual transmission) but in the rest of the world manual transmission STILL outsells automatics. That is decades later...
04-28-2017, 08:18 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
digital killed film.
Digital crippled film. It won market dominance for a very good reason and pushed film into a niche market, but examples such as the resurrection (however long it may last) of Ferrania, the rise of Lomography, and the planned reintroduction of Ektachrome (with hints of Kodachrome as well) suggest the persistence of that medium for some time to come. I'd thought it was gone in 2010, but I was wrong - and it seems there are significant market forces acting to keep it alive.

Right now, digital and film are capable of a peaceful coexistence. Neither is a continuing threat to the other as they stand right now.
04-28-2017, 08:20 AM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Have you tried lowering the camera from your eye for a moment?



The speed and responsiveness of my Olympus E-M5 was very easy to get used to. And although I rarely find a need for burst shooting or much low-light shooting, one time I went to an anvil shoot in the wee morning hours (for Armistice Day), and machine-gunning away (at 9 FPS) with the E-M5 got the shots I wanted.



I am a technology freak too, and I favor audio CDs, electric cars and EVFs.

I can't help feeling that mirrorless cameras are gradually going to win out. Also, I would love to see some full-frame mirrorless competitor to Sony. I basically got my Sony A7 so I could use "vintage" Pentax lenses, much better than using them on any Pentax DSLR.
The OP asked if the DSLR has a future, and i simply wrote my oppinion, i did not want to join a debate about who is wrong and who is right.

My future cameras will be DSLRs until there will be no other choice.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 04-28-2017 at 08:51 AM.
04-28-2017, 08:27 AM - 4 Likes   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by timw4mail Quote
EVF, OVF, MILC
EVF - electronic viewfinder (tiny TV screen) reporting directly off the sensor.
OVF - optical viewfinder (reflex mirror and pentaprism or pentamirror - a direct light path to your eye, so you see what the lens does)
SLR - single-lens reflex camera (DSLR for digital; SLR for film). (Pentax, Nikon, Canon; formerly Olympus, Minolta, Ricoh [in their own right], Chinon and others.)
MILC - mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera (Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic)
P&S - point and shoot. Generally applied to "mirrorless" pocket/compact cameras including digital compacts that have either a rear screen, a token viewfinder or both, and which MAY have a zoom lens, but whose lens cannot be removed or exchanged without completely redesigning the camera. The high end of this is "bridge" cameras, which have DSLR-like controls, size and handling, with a wide-range zoom lens that is likewise integral to the camera.
04-28-2017, 08:33 AM   #30
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While I love DSLRs, mirrorless cameras are likely the future due to simple economics. The cost of the mirror and OVF is more than the EVF and if the market keeps contracting, mirrorless may be an option for Ricoh to pursue (not a K01 clone). However, given the low market and mind share of Pentax at the moment, and challenges within Ricoh corporate on many levels, are they willing to spend the R&D on developing this? It appears they are betting the farm on DSLRs, which may become a marginal technology over time. Since none of us can predict what will happen, we are all just speculating. Lets hope that Ricoh is betting on the correct approach.
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