[yusuf]

What are you doing here? Go shoot with your awesome camera and stop acting as an evangelist of the church of mirrorless. It has been explained more than enough times that there are advantages to using an OVF.

You have right to disagree but no rights to be rude or tell me what to do. I also don't need to remind you about the topic of discussion which is " Sony A9: is there still a future for DSLRs, and Pentax mirrorless suggestion"

[Kunzite]

Then, I'll remind you about the thread being on Pentaxforums.com, section Pentax Cameras, subsection Pentax DSLR Discussion.

[yusuf]

The faact that you love EVFs and have no ill-effects using them may be nice for you but it does not mean your experience is universal. It's like saying you love white cars therefore car makers should only make white cars. There's plenty of people on these forums and elsewhere who have complained about EVFs and there's plenty of science to explain the biological phenomena that cause their complaints.
.

It's not about what I love, it's about what helps me make better pictures. Like many of you, I loved OVF for over 25 years but when I found a better alternative, I moved.

...
Its' pretty stupid to convert photons to electrons and then back to photons when a simple mirror can send those original photons directly to the photographer's eye. The basic physics inherent in an EVF's sensor-readout-process-display design cannot get around the fact that it limits the DR of scene (clips both highlights and shadows), adds lag, and adds grain. No doubt EVFs can improve (as can SLRs) but EVFs will always be limited by the physics of the light levels of the scene (and the biology of some photographers)..

well, that's a very old argument for old EVF, you certainly didn't see how amazing A7r2/A9 EVF is, have you? And people don't realize that if scene in EVF clips, likely will clip in final output too - so you get feedback right on time instead getting surprises later. Photographers eye better get used to what the final output would be instead of what it is perceived by OVF. And of course, EVF helps Photographers eye much better with right focus, DoF preview , focus magnification. Regarding lag, agree but it's not even noticeable for general photography, maybe for sports photographer or panning which I am not into. And for a bit of disadvantage, I can't ignore the advantages EVF offers over OVF.

---------- Post added 07-03-17 at 11:45 PM ----------

Then, I'll remind you about the thread being on Pentaxforums.com, section Pentax Cameras, subsection Pentax DSLR Discussion.

so? do I have to praise DSLR, just because it's in DSLR forum? Would love to see if you come up with logical arguments to stay on topics then getting personal.

[BigMackCam]

Folks, let's keep everything friendly, please. And for those with strong opinions for or against EVFs, or one brand vs another, let's also keep opinions balanced so as not to break our rule on inflammatory posts... and a reminder to those who may benefit that this is PentaxForums - the clue is in the title

I'd like to leave the thread open, if we can all keep to the above.

Thanks for your understanding, all

[Kunzite]

so? do I have to praise DSLR, just because it's in DSLR forum? Would love to see if you come up with logical arguments to stay on topics then getting personal.

Nobody was asking you to praise DSLRs; but you could respect our choice. IMHO such mutual respect is shown when people preferring EVFs don't insist on EVF superiority on DSLR forums, and likewise, people preferring OVFs don't insist on OVF superiority on EVF forums.
Because both choices are valid, there's no "right" and "wrong".

[CarlJF]

well, that's a very old argument for old EVF, you certainly didn't see how amazing A7r2/A9 EVF is, have you?

From a technological standpoint, yes, they,re amazing. By looking at them, not so much. For me it's like looking at a TV instead of through a window... Maybe a TV screen looks great to you, but I still prefer a window... And I guess many people are in the same situation.

And people don't realize that if scene in EVF clips, likely will clip in final output too - so you get feedback right on time instead getting surprises later. Photographers eye better get used to what the final output would be instead of what it is perceived by OVF.

And some other people don't realize that what they see in the EVF isn't the raw image but the cooked jpg,. So yes, clipping could occur in the EVF and the image could still be perfectly fine with the raw file. So no, unless you're a jpeg shooter, what you see isn't what you get and not the final output. Not even talking about the use of flash, making this argument even more meaningless.

And of course, EVF helps Photographers eye much better with right focus, DoF preview , focus magnification.

Sorry for you if you're unable to focus with an OVF or check the DoF (you know DSLR have a function called DoF preview, don't you) or have any idea what DoF will be for a given aperture and FL, but these are not problems for most people. Focus magnification, for the few times it's needed, is available in LV anyway. If you buy a camera like the A9, I guess it's not to use it in manual focus using focus magnification... Same thing for focus peaking.

[photoptimist]

It's not about what I love, it's about what helps me make better pictures. Like many of you, I loved OVF for over 25 years but when I found a better alternative, I moved.

We certainly can agree on the first half of that statement. Yes, it is all about what helps make better pictures. But we also certainly disagree on whether it's an EVF or an OVF that accomplishes that.

well, that's a very old argument for old EVF, you certainly didn't see how amazing A7r2/A9 EVF is, have you? And people don't realize that if scene in EVF clips, likely will clip in final output too - so you get feedback right on time instead getting surprises later. Photographers eye better get used to what the final output would be instead of what it is perceived by OVF. And of course, EVF helps Photographers eye much better with right focus, DoF preview , focus magnification. Regarding lag, agree but it's not even noticeable for general photography, maybe for sports photographer or panning which I am not into. And for a bit of disadvantage, I can't ignore the advantages EVF offers over OVF.

I've used and seen both EVF and OVF cameras. And I've spent a lot of time trying to understand what I like (and dislike) about both concepts.

Both technologies intermediate the photographic process and neither is truly WYSIWYG. My conclusion is that I'd prefer using an EVF some of the time and prefer using an OVF some of the time. Which I prefer depends on the shooting conditions and plans for the image. What's interesting is that live view on a DSLR's back panel gives me most of the functionality of an EVF while not sacrificing the OVF when I want that.

Thus a DSLR gives me both styles of viewfinders while mirrorless only gives me one. Hence, I'm staying with DSLRs.

[BigMackCam]

Both technologies intermediate the photographic process and neither is truly WYSIWYG. My conclusion is that I'd prefer using an EVF some of the time and prefer using an OVF some of the time.

And there it is, in a nutshell

Neither type of viewfinder is best in every situation - plus we all have personal preferences, so which one is better overall and in certain situations is highly subjective...

[JohnBee]

... and a reminder to those who may benefit that this is PentaxForums - the clue is in the title

I don't think this thread belongs here tbh. ie, at best it would be relevant to the Pentax mirrorless forum. Though overall, I get the feeling this is more of a 3rd party discussion personally and am somewhat surprised that it hasn't been moved yet

- my two cents of course, as this is clearly not my decision to make

[BigMackCam]

I don't think this thread belongs here tbh. ie, at best it would be relevant to the Pentax mirrorless forum. Though overall, I get the feeling this is more of a 3rd party discussion personally and am somewhat surprised that it hasn't been moved yet

- my two cents of course, as this is clearly not my decision to make

The thread started off with relevance to Pentax DSLR, mirrorless and non-Pentax camps, John, and we made a decision when it began as to where it should reside. I wish we were equipped with crystal balls, but our moderating budget doesn't stretch that far

[surfar]

a DSLR gives me both styles of viewfinders while mirrorless only gives me one

Fuji Xpro 2 provides a hybrid view.

Good enough to be Zach Arias's B cam behind his Phase 1.

[photoptimist]

Fuji Xpro 2 provides a hybrid view.

Good enough to be Zach Arias's B cam behind his Phase 1.

Excellent example! Mirrorless can't even kill the rangefinder OVF which was supposed to be made "obsolete" by SLR OVF.

My personal dream is for a hybrid SLR-OVF and EVF. That truly would deliver the best of both worlds and it's quite clear that photographers are willing to pay for the best.

[D1N0]

You can always use a LCD viewfinder accessory on a DSLR to make you own hybrid system: Digital Camera LCD Hoods & Shades | B&H Photo Video

[BigMackCam]

My personal dream is for a hybrid SLR-OVF and EVF. That truly would deliver the best of both worlds and it's quite clear that photographers are willing to pay for the best.

Mine too, and surely it must be on the way. Imagine being able to switch between optical and electronic views in the same viewfinder... or, better still, to activate focus peaking outlines and overlay exposure / (RAW) histogram information on an otherwise-optical view, then review your shots digitally in the viewfinder. Yes please

[BigMackCam]

You can always use a LCD viewfinder accessory on a DSLR to make you own hybrid system: Digital Camera LCD Hoods & Shades | B&H Photo Video

These work really well. My recently-bought LCD loupe has re-ignited my interest in using fast manual lenses on my K-5, K-3 and K-3II. That said, in all honesty it doesn't compete with my A7II's EVF. The resolution of the optically-magnified rear screen is coarse by comparison (1.0 vs 2.3 million dots), and the camera plus loupe combo isn't ergonomically ideal... but it does work very well, nonetheless. Having an excellent OVF and acceptable EVF-type experience in one body is very useful indeed, and a Pentax DSLR plus loupe provides that flexibility