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07-24-2017, 09:16 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
At the same time I insist on being able to get to ƒ2.8 for wildlife for low light situations. As far as I know, there are no 2.8 long zooms.
How do you deal with that issue if you don't use telephoto primes?

Another reason I use primes is that I often shoot in low-light conditions, and there's a much bigger advantage of 1.8 or 1.4 over 2.8.

---------- Post added 07-24-17 at 09:19 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Think the prime advantage to the older guys, is they know what primes they like. A prime isn't better just because it's a prime, but some primes rendering is important to your shooting style. For a young guy starting out, how do you even evaluate everything that's out there, to find thrones you like? There is just so much. The photography world was much simpler in 67 when I was in Photo Arts.
Though today there are hundreds of people online reviewing lenses and posting images (like on here). So it might be easier to evaluate lenses you want to buy nowadays. Plus lens rental services are much more convenient (and cheaper?) than they were back in the day.

07-24-2017, 09:46 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
How do you deal with that issue if you don't use telephoto primes?
I use my telephoto primes extensively in fixed location shooting. When walking around, I prefer zooms. Zoom on the camera, prime in the bag in case a prime situation presents itself, but quite often it doesn't and I carry my 6 pound 300 2.8 for naught.

Walking around with the DA* 60-250, a causal walking around type image....




Later with the Tamron 300 2.8 and 1.4 TC


200 2.8 with 1.4 TC


For me it's simple. Walking around, use a zoom, if I can set up and park with tripod and stool etc. where the size of bird and distance will be known. I use a prime.

My choices depend not on any perceived image quality issues. All my lenses zoom or prime give me acceptable IQ based on shooting them in appropriate conditions. Zooms give me a better chance in varying conditions walking around, primes give me a better chance where I can set up in one place with my chair and tripod and just shoot. I get images both ways. I'd be missing shots if I did it any other way. But, you can't tell the difference between zoom and prime images looking at them, you have to look at the exif if you want to know which is which.

I personally don't understand people thinking they have to choose one or the other. They both have their place in the world.

QuoteQuote:
Another reason I use primes is that I often shoot in low-light conditions, and there's a much bigger advantage of 1.8 or 1.4 over 2.8.
Of 8400 images in my current library, 280 are taken under ƒ3.4, many of them with my XG-1 that has acceptable DoF at ƒ3.4 or less. I use my FA 50 1.7 indoors but apart from that I have very few sub 3.4 images. If I adjust the parameters to tell me how many images I have taken at less than ƒ2.7, which would include all DA 35 2.4, and FA 50 1.7 images, the number falls to 80. I honestly can't see having more than a couple of primes for that type of image.

Last edited by normhead; 07-24-2017 at 06:50 PM.
07-24-2017, 04:45 PM   #78
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Right, I have a very different needs/experience than you. In one set of 24 photos which were selected from many photos over time, 40% of them had shutter speeds of 1/30 and under, with apertures bigger than 2.8. I wouldn't expect that to be the type of situation you would be shooting long lenses in.
07-24-2017, 06:51 PM - 1 Like   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
Right, I have a very different needs/experience than you. In one set of 24 photos which were selected from many photos over time, 40% of them had shutter speeds of 1/30 and under, with apertures bigger than 2.8. I wouldn't expect that to be the type of situation you would be shooting long lenses in.
It takes all types. Wouldn't it be interesting trading places for a shooting day. Although we'd probably have to follow each other around and give hints on what to do.

07-24-2017, 11:35 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I bet I'm older than you guys and I'm the opposite. I perch on too many cliffs etc. to even consider moving while framing.

I always try and have a few primes in my bag, the 21 and 40 XS on APS-c and switch to them when appropriate, but I frame with the zoom, then check the FL to see if I have an appropriate prime. But I don't see that as a zoom prime issue. For some scenes I prefer the rendering of the 21 or 40XS. A more "technical" lens like the DA 35 2.4, I simply have no use for. I'd prefer the 28-105 or 18-135 to the DA 35 2.4s images.

Think the prime advantage to the older guys, is they know what primes they like. A prime isn't better just because it's a prime, but some primes rendering is important to your shooting style. For a young guy starting out, how do you even evaluate everything that's out there, to find thrones you like? There is just so much. The photography world was much simpler in 67 when I was in Photo Arts.

Honestly, if there are a couple of Nikon of Canon (or even Sony) lenses out there that suit my style, I wouldn't know. And how would I ever find out?
You can't really before buying them and using for a few months. So even in Pentax you likely don't know everything ...

I agree this isn't a prime vs zoom thing. This is more about rendering, framing, size and weight. From the contraints you may have and what available in the mount, you have a set of lenses that match. They may be only zooms, only primes, or both. When there both you have to try both for quite some time before deciding what is best...

Quite time consuming, not necessarily worth the effort.

As a side note been to germany for vacations recently. I took photos of course. Basically with DA15, FA31, FA77. I don't take more because I don't like to have too many lenses. And I was bothered by the primes because I was with my father and sister and overall this meant too many lenses changes...

After I have seen the photos I got. And now I remember why I have theses lenses. They don't render like many other lenses. On my oled TV screen (that also kelp quite a lot) and with theses lenses, the photo really pop. They have a 3D feeling that is visible in many shots, even when there no bokeh. Many of the landcapes photos had this to a degree too.

So when I looked at the photos, I remembered why I have these lenses. And I agree maybe some other lenses do the same or better, maybe even zooms. And the post processing, the light the screen all play a part too. But if I look at many photos on the same screen on the web with different gear, I don't see that. Looking for a smaller/lighter setup I have looked to thousand of m4/3 and Fuji mirorless photos. The pop is never there. I suspect the too aggressive rendering/sharpening of the jpeg for theses system prevent it but it difficult then to justify the buy...

I know this is first the subject, the light, the composition etc... But I still want great results!
07-28-2017, 12:16 PM   #81
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With apologies to those who own them, I don't get the appeal of an 18-200+mm superzoom. They sem to come in two flavours. Some are sharp(ish) but suffer from distortion.

Here is an example, as produced by the Canon 18-200mm:



See http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/18-200mm.htm for the whole story.

This distortion can be fixed in post processing but what a bother.

On the other hand you have superzooms such as the one from Sigma that keeps distortion in check but is not very sharp.

From the review on this site, the Pentax 18-270mm superzoom is in the distortion club.
07-28-2017, 01:09 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
With apologies to those who own them, I don't get the appeal of an 18-200+mm superzoom. They sem to come in two flavours. Some are sharp(ish) but suffer from distortion.

Here is an example, as produced by the Canon 18-200mm:



See Canon 18-200mm IS for the whole story.

This distortion can be fixed in post processing but what a bother.

On the other hand you have superzooms such as the one from Sigma that keeps distortion in check but is not very sharp.

From the review on this site, the Pentax 18-270mm superzoom is in the distortion club.
I gave my Sigma 18-250 to my daughter-in-law. She likes it, we were going to sell it. If you only have two lenses they are as good as it gets.
07-29-2017, 11:18 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
This distortion can be fixed in post processing but what a bother.
Distorision correction isn't a bother at all. Automatically corrected in camera for jpeg and by the raw editor if you are into raws.

But if the lens is soft, that's something that can't really be corrected.

07-30-2017, 03:33 PM   #84
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Since I bought my K-1 I almost exclusively shoot my few primes as they do not make the camera much heavier. Also the primes really bring out the best of its FF sensor (not saying that my zooms Sigma EX 70-200 and 20-40 are dogs on FF DSLR).
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