How wireless flash sync works ?

lotech · 06-24-2017, 07:03 PM

Hi there,

I am using a K3, I pre-own a Metz flash that supports wireless remote and worked, since I no longer have the flash I can't re-test it, I have no idea it is RF or IR remote the menu didn't mention about that. On the other hand, I see lot of low cost flash in the market that also support wireless remote, but they are single contact non dedicated universal type even without a sensor, I don't understand how TTL and AF assist works without dedicated adapter, or those are simply manual flash with wireless sync ?

**jatrax** · 06-24-2017, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by lotech

I don't understand how TTL and AF assist works without dedicated adapter,

They don't.

Originally posted by lotech

are simply manual flash with wireless sync

Yep. Well manual trigger but I think that is what you mean.

If you want P-TTL then you need a flash that supports P-TTL: Pentax, Metz, Sigma, and I think one model of Yongnuo now does.

For manual triggering there are dozens of triggers on ebay. A somewhat better choice is the Cactus v6 which supports changing the flash power from the transmitter. The Cactus flash has the receiver built in so all you need is one transceiver and the flash. Or a pair of transceivers and a manual flash like a Nikon SB-26.

lotech · 06-24-2017, 08:23 PM

So those cheap flashes are simply manual flash with wireless trigger works independently with the camera, we have to trial and error with exposure settings ?

https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Display-Speedlite-Cameras-Standard/dp/B010XCEA...s=camera+flash

Adam · 06-24-2017, 08:33 PM

P-TTL wireless flash just triggers optically. The external flash sees a signal from the on-board flash, then fires.

Adam
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**jatrax** · 06-24-2017, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by lotech

So those cheap flashes are simply manual flash with wireless trigger works independently with the camera, we have to trial and error with exposure settings ?

Yes. Personally I prefer all manual flash for what I do. In any controlled environment you get more consistent results. Once you have your settings, not much changes.

If you are running an gunning then yes, P-TTL is the way to go.

Note that these triggers use rf (radio frequency) to communicate. The P-TTL protocol uses optical pre-flashes to communicate so you need the flash transmitter to be visible to the receiver optically. The RF triggers do not have this limitation and generally have better range.

---------- Post added 06-24-17 at 08:48 PM ----------

This might help: Comprehensive Pentax P-TTL Flash Guide Updated - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com

lotech · 06-24-2017, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

Yes. Personally I prefer all manual flash for what I do. In any controlled environment you get more consistent results. Once you have your settings, not much changes.

If you are running an gunning then yes, P-TTL is the way to go.

Note that these triggers use rf (radio frequency) to communicate. The P-TTL protocol uses optical pre-flashes to communicate so you need the flash transmitter to be visible to the receiver optically. The RF triggers do not have this limitation and generally have better range.

---------- Post added 06-24-17 at 08:48 PM ----------

This might help: Comprehensive Pentax P-TTL Flash Guide Updated - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com

So this type of flash is not suitable for primary flash, they are meant for slaves right ?

**jatrax** · 06-24-2017, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by lotech

So this type of flash is not suitable for primary flash, they are meant for slaves right ?

Not completely sure I understand what you mean. I use all off camera flash triggered by radio. In studio I use two monolights plus a Nikon SB-26 all triggered by Cactus V5 and v6 triggers. Out of the studio I use a combination of the Nikon, the Cactus RF60 flash and several old Pentax AF200T flashes again all triggered by the Cactus RF triggers.

If you mean one flash on the camera that is then triggering additional off camera flashes, then yes those are called slaves. That is a standard P-TTL setup where the master flash controls the slaves with optical pre-flashes. But you need a P_TTL flash that is capable of operating in master mode, not all can.

You can also set your 'slave' flashes to fire on receipt of the main flash burst. But this only works in manual, not P-TTL. In P-TTL the master will fire a "preflash" to determine the exposure and this sets off the slaves. Some slaves are sophisticated enough to ignore the preflash, but I never had much luck with it. I prefer all manual. set things up the way you want, adjust as needed. Simple.

Sorry, I am not really up on TTL or P-TTL, I use all manual flash. There are several really good flash folks on this forum hopefully one will stop by and help.

lotech · 06-24-2017, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

Not completely sure I understand what you mean. I use all off camera flash triggered by radio. In studio I use two monolights plus a Nikon SB-26 all triggered by Cactus V5 and v6 triggers. Out of the studio I use a combination of the Nikon, the Cactus RF60 flash and several old Pentax AF200T flashes again all triggered by the Cactus RF triggers.

If you mean one flash on the camera that is then triggering additional off camera flashes, then yes those are called slaves. That is a standard P-TTL setup where the master flash controls the slaves with optical pre-flashes. But you need a P_TTL flash that is capable of operating in master mode, not all can.

You can also set your 'slave' flashes to fire on receipt of the main flash burst. But this only works in manual, not P-TTL. In P-TTL the master will fire a "preflash" to determine the exposure and this sets off the slaves. Some slaves are sophisticated enough to ignore the preflash, but I never had much luck with it. I prefer all manual. set things up the way you want, adjust as needed. Simple.

Sorry, I am not really up on TTL or P-TTL, I use all manual flash. There are several really good flash folks on this forum hopefully one will stop by and help.

Sorry, I mean I should not use that kind of flash as the only flash, since it has no control link with the camera, I don't do studio.

**jatrax** · 06-24-2017, 09:47 PM

If by "control link" you mean a P-TTL automation, then yes you are correct they are manual only. But "use as the only flash"? Sure why not? Again, I do not use automation, I believe in most cases it is less accurate than manual.

I recently attended a wedding where the photographer used all manual flashes. Set his guns up on flash stands all around, fired by radio triggers. Took him maybe 15 minutes to adjust the power of each to what he wanted. After that he just shot away.

If you need control automation, then you need a P-TTL flash capable of acting as a master such as the Pentax 540FGZ II and whatever 'slaves' you need which must also be P-TTL capable. Only Pentax, Metz and Sigma make those. And the newish Yongnuo YN585EX, I think. AFAIK only the Pentax flashes can act as a master, but I am not sure about that.

Did you read the guide I linked to earlier? I think that will answer your questions better than I can.

**WPRESTO** · 06-25-2017, 03:55 AM

It is possible to have wireless radio-controlled pTTL with Pentax. You need two pieces of equipment:
1) any strobe unit that is Pentax pTTL capable when mounted on the hotshoe or via a dedicated pTTL wire.
2) an Acon radio-controlled pTTL unit that is Pentax compliant.

The Acon units can be fussy to set up the first time - you may have to download and install software - but once you get them right, they work well.

06-24-2017, 07:03 PM	#1
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312	How wireless flash sync works ? Hi there, I am using a K3, I pre-own a Metz flash that supports wireless remote and worked, since I no longer have the flash I can't re-test it, I have no idea it is RF or IR remote the menu didn't mention about that. On the other hand, I see lot of low cost flash in the market that also support wireless remote, but they are single contact non dedicated universal type even without a sensor, I don't understand how TTL and AF assist works without dedicated adapter, or those are simply manual flash with wireless sync ?

06-24-2017, 08:23 PM	#3
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	So those cheap flashes are simply manual flash with wireless trigger works independently with the camera, we have to trial and error with exposure settings ? https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Display-Speedlite-Cameras-Standard/dp/B010XCEA...s=camera+flash Last edited by lotech; 06-24-2017 at 08:28 PM.

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06-24-2017, 07:54 PM	#2
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by lotech I don't understand how TTL and AF assist works without dedicated adapter, They don't. Originally posted by lotech are simply manual flash with wireless sync Yep. Well manual trigger but I think that is what you mean. If you want P-TTL then you need a flash that supports P-TTL: Pentax, Metz, Sigma, and I think one model of Yongnuo now does. For manual triggering there are dozens of triggers on ebay. A somewhat better choice is the Cactus v6 which supports changing the flash power from the transmitter. The Cactus flash has the receiver built in so all you need is one transceiver and the flash. Or a pair of transceivers and a manual flash like a Nikon SB-26.

06-24-2017, 08:33 PM	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	P-TTL wireless flash just triggers optically. The external flash sees a signal from the on-board flash, then fires. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

06-24-2017, 08:47 PM	#5
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by lotech So those cheap flashes are simply manual flash with wireless trigger works independently with the camera, we have to trial and error with exposure settings ? Yes. Personally I prefer all manual flash for what I do. In any controlled environment you get more consistent results. Once you have your settings, not much changes. If you are running an gunning then yes, P-TTL is the way to go. Note that these triggers use rf (radio frequency) to communicate. The P-TTL protocol uses optical pre-flashes to communicate so you need the flash transmitter to be visible to the receiver optically. The RF triggers do not have this limitation and generally have better range. ---------- Post added 06-24-17 at 08:48 PM ---------- This might help: Comprehensive Pentax P-TTL Flash Guide Updated - Articles and Tips \| PentaxForums.com

06-24-2017, 09:20 PM	#6
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	Originally posted by jatrax Yes. Personally I prefer all manual flash for what I do. In any controlled environment you get more consistent results. Once you have your settings, not much changes. If you are running an gunning then yes, P-TTL is the way to go. Note that these triggers use rf (radio frequency) to communicate. The P-TTL protocol uses optical pre-flashes to communicate so you need the flash transmitter to be visible to the receiver optically. The RF triggers do not have this limitation and generally have better range. ---------- Post added 06-24-17 at 08:48 PM ---------- This might help: Comprehensive Pentax P-TTL Flash Guide Updated - Articles and Tips \| PentaxForums.com So this type of flash is not suitable for primary flash, they are meant for slaves right ?

06-24-2017, 09:31 PM	#7
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by lotech So this type of flash is not suitable for primary flash, they are meant for slaves right ? Not completely sure I understand what you mean. I use all off camera flash triggered by radio. In studio I use two monolights plus a Nikon SB-26 all triggered by Cactus V5 and v6 triggers. Out of the studio I use a combination of the Nikon, the Cactus RF60 flash and several old Pentax AF200T flashes again all triggered by the Cactus RF triggers. If you mean one flash on the camera that is then triggering additional off camera flashes, then yes those are called slaves. That is a standard P-TTL setup where the master flash controls the slaves with optical pre-flashes. But you need a P_TTL flash that is capable of operating in master mode, not all can. You can also set your 'slave' flashes to fire on receipt of the main flash burst. But this only works in manual, not P-TTL. In P-TTL the master will fire a "preflash" to determine the exposure and this sets off the slaves. Some slaves are sophisticated enough to ignore the preflash, but I never had much luck with it. I prefer all manual. set things up the way you want, adjust as needed. Simple. Sorry, I am not really up on TTL or P-TTL, I use all manual flash. There are several really good flash folks on this forum hopefully one will stop by and help.

06-24-2017, 09:35 PM	#8
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	Originally posted by jatrax Not completely sure I understand what you mean. I use all off camera flash triggered by radio. In studio I use two monolights plus a Nikon SB-26 all triggered by Cactus V5 and v6 triggers. Out of the studio I use a combination of the Nikon, the Cactus RF60 flash and several old Pentax AF200T flashes again all triggered by the Cactus RF triggers. If you mean one flash on the camera that is then triggering additional off camera flashes, then yes those are called slaves. That is a standard P-TTL setup where the master flash controls the slaves with optical pre-flashes. But you need a P_TTL flash that is capable of operating in master mode, not all can. You can also set your 'slave' flashes to fire on receipt of the main flash burst. But this only works in manual, not P-TTL. In P-TTL the master will fire a "preflash" to determine the exposure and this sets off the slaves. Some slaves are sophisticated enough to ignore the preflash, but I never had much luck with it. I prefer all manual. set things up the way you want, adjust as needed. Simple. Sorry, I am not really up on TTL or P-TTL, I use all manual flash. There are several really good flash folks on this forum hopefully one will stop by and help. Sorry, I mean I should not use that kind of flash as the only flash, since it has no control link with the camera, I don't do studio.

06-24-2017, 09:47 PM	#9
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	If by "control link" you mean a P-TTL automation, then yes you are correct they are manual only. But "use as the only flash"? Sure why not? Again, I do not use automation, I believe in most cases it is less accurate than manual. I recently attended a wedding where the photographer used all manual flashes. Set his guns up on flash stands all around, fired by radio triggers. Took him maybe 15 minutes to adjust the power of each to what he wanted. After that he just shot away. If you need control automation, then you need a P-TTL flash capable of acting as a master such as the Pentax 540FGZ II and whatever 'slaves' you need which must also be P-TTL capable. Only Pentax, Metz and Sigma make those. And the newish Yongnuo YN585EX, I think. AFAIK only the Pentax flashes can act as a master, but I am not sure about that. Did you read the guide I linked to earlier? I think that will answer your questions better than I can.

06-25-2017, 03:55 AM	#10
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,108	It is possible to have wireless radio-controlled pTTL with Pentax. You need two pieces of equipment: 1) any strobe unit that is Pentax pTTL capable when mounted on the hotshoe or via a dedicated pTTL wire. 2) an Acon radio-controlled pTTL unit that is Pentax compliant. The Acon units can be fussy to set up the first time - you may have to download and install software - but once you get them right, they work well.