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08-18-2008, 10:40 AM   #31
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How can we say goodbye when you won't leave? Don't forget to change your name to Fujike. Bye.

08-18-2008, 02:09 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxke Quote
I wish all those people who say the ist D is a so so camera and not better than say Nikon D40 (God forbid!), would actually take the time to use it for a day. I would be all glad to lend mine, and let them speak afterwards...

Just to take the Nikon D40, because you came up with that one:
- feels cracky in the hand and you have the idea it will break while in your hands
- has a crappy little dim viewfinder
- has a slow AF that isn't all that precise
- doesn't have a status LCD
- doesn't have hyper modes
- doesn't accept an optional grip
- doesn't take AA's
- most common modes are menu driven
- do I have to go on?

And as far as cropping goes: if you take the photo right at the first time, then you don't have to crop. More: I don't want to spend lots of bukzzzz on a 31mm to end up with, say, an 85mm. If I want 85mm in the first place I don't crop, I take an 85mm lens to make the shot...

Good checklist on the *istD vs D40.

But... "as far as cropping goes: if you take the photo right at the first time, then you don't have to crop." NOW I have to take issue...

That's simply a silly argument. Sorry, can't sugar-coat it. That's like saying...
I don't know, pick your analogy:

1) If you set your exposure right the first time, you don't need bracketing!
- well, yeah, but isn't it nice to have bracketing as an option?

2) If you time your shot absolutely perfectly, you never need to take more than one shot of any moving subject!
- True. How stupid of me.

3) If you put the right lens on your camera the first time, you don't need to change it!
- True. How stupid of me. I'm simply talent-free.

4) If the military would just learn to aim, they wouldn't need automatic weapons!
- True. But someone's got to support the bullet-industrial-complex.

5) If you just pick the correct lottery number the first time, you wouldn't have to keep buying tickets! Duh!
- Agreed, I don't know why folks don't get this either.



The ability to crop has been in the photographer's toolkit since long before digital. It's an important part of the craft - ask Ansel Adams' ghost, anyone. If you refuse to use it or discount a sensor's ability to allow it because it's distasteful to you.... well, you're just limiting yourself.


.

Last edited by jsherman999; 08-18-2008 at 02:16 PM.
08-18-2008, 02:17 PM   #33
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Just take great images....Who gives a flying F as long as your tools do what they are designed to do...right? If it works for you all the better. I am sure if you are content with the tool, you will spend less time worrying about it and get on with the raison d'etre.

Best Wishes

Ben
08-18-2008, 02:45 PM   #34
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QuoteQuote:
Just take great images....Who gives a flying F as long as your tools do what they are designed to do...right? If it works for you all the better. I am sure if you are content with the tool, you will spend less time worrying about it and get on with the raison d'etre.

Very true and great advice.

This is not the nicest of threads of late.... but I hope all parties finish on a bright note.

I am new to DSLR and i am not a youngster being in my fifties

I was a keen film Nikon slr person years back. When deciding to get back into photgraphy I did much shopping around and reading of reviews before finding this wonderful site that in the end helped me decide on what was most suited to my needs, my budget and my long term goals as well as providing me with the results that I hoped I would acheive from some great posts on lenses, wonderful tech advice and some brilliant photos.

Two of the above posters are fine examples this

I hope that you Pentaxke have found the same in your search for a camera that suits your needs and I wish you all the best for your future in photography with Fuji and if you have half the enjoyment I have had so far with Pentax then your in for a great ride.

We all have different views and opinions... so its lucky there is more than one choice out there


Neil

08-19-2008, 03:30 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxke Quote
how much I love the ist D and how I am waiting for a big four years now to have it updated by Pentax.
I confess I haven't read the rest of this thread, but this whole decision must be emotional more than anything else.

Eventually, Pentaxke finished buying a camera slowlier, bigger and heavier than the K20D (he says). He says better IQ but here again many would say NO APS-C camera currently beats the K20D. Let's just say that both have similiar IQ and IQ wouldn't be the reason to jump horses.

There is a clear message here:

Pentax missed to satisfy a classic-style customer (MX, istD: small, versatile AND professional) by not providing an update for 4 years now and showing no intention to do so in the future.

Pentax choose to frustrate a customer.

The result is that who was a loyal customer now is turned away and won't come back. Pentax better listens to stories like this!
08-19-2008, 03:58 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
There is a clear message here:

Pentax missed to satisfy a classic-style customer (MX, istD: small, versatile AND professional) by not providing an update for 4 years now and showing no intention to do so in the future.

Pentax choose to frustrate a customer.

The result is that who was a loyal customer now is turned away and won't come back. Pentax better listens to stories like this!
However much I regret that Marc couldn't get the Pentax camera he was wishing for, compare the sales/presence of the *istD and the K10D/K20D and you will understand that Pentax was right in not serving this one customer and making the choices they made...

Wim
08-19-2008, 04:10 AM   #37
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Good luck Marc with your new system. Life is just too short to stick with something you don't like. The point is to take pictures and have fun! Enjoy! and know that you will be missed.

NaCl(there is a reason why there are different cameras out there)H2O
08-19-2008, 04:19 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxke Quote
And as far as cropping goes: if you take the photo right at the first time, then you don't have to crop. More: I don't want to spend lots of bukzzzz on a 31mm to end up with, say, an 85mm. If I want 85mm in the first place I don't crop, I take an 85mm lens to make the shot...
A bit off-topic and just repeating what I told you elsewhere concerning cropping...

Cropping is essential because you just don't see what you're photographing through the viewfinder (VF). Quite often disturbing objects appear on the edge of a shot. One couldn't see these because of the slightly reduced field of view (FOV) of the VF. If you crop the image to the FOV that you did see through the VF you lose pixels...

Cropping is required when you cannot get closer or don't have the time to change lenses. If I take a picture fully intending to crop it afterwards because of this I don't see this as not getting the photo right the first time. The result will be what I intended. Cannot do this with 6MP.

Cropping is required when one is photographing for a result in a different aspect ratio such as 1:1. I sometimes do this. 4MP (further reduced for what I saw through the VF) isn't enough for a good print.

Cropping in the extreme is taking a portrait oriented 2:3 crop out of a landscape oriented 3:2 image or the other way around. Sometimes there is no time to turn the camera when mounted on a tripod, and the only solution is zooming out and anticipating this kind of crop. Assuming you need 6MP for a print, 14MP is just enough to be able to crop in such a way and have 6MP left.

And I can think of a few more... But these are all concious pre-visualized croppings that do not serve correcting a badly composed exposure as you seem to think cropping is used for. This kind of cropping is part of getting the picture right the way you saw it the first time. Photography can be about getting the image material that you need to make the image you pre-visualize.

Wim

08-19-2008, 05:53 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I confess I haven't read the rest of this thread, but this whole decision must be emotional more than anything else.

Eventually, Pentaxke finished buying a camera slowlier, bigger and heavier than the K20D (he says). He says better IQ but here again many would say NO APS-C camera currently beats the K20D. Let's just say that both have similiar IQ and IQ wouldn't be the reason to jump horses.

There is a clear message here:

Pentax missed to satisfy a classic-style customer (MX, istD: small, versatile AND professional) by not providing an update for 4 years now and showing no intention to do so in the future.

Pentax choose to frustrate a customer.

The result is that who was a loyal customer now is turned away and won't come back. Pentax better listens to stories like this!
Falconeye,

No offence to Marc but I feel (and told him so) that no matter what camera Pentax would provide he was decided to jump ship anyway:

QuoteQuote:
But for me it is an extra motivation to *not* look at the offerings of Pentax. I was always a bit more different than other people...
I guess not enough people asked him what kind of exclusive brand is Pentax so he chose a much obscure one. Thanks God there is nothing smaller in market share out there (Leica, maybe?)!
Besides when you refute almost all the advances Pentax put in cameras recently (advanced SR, more Mp) and you sell gems of optics to buy couple Nikon primes and some consumer zooms there is little chance that you'll get better images than a K20D coupled to those limiteds. So (as much as I apreciate your insights) I guess your analysis it's not spot on this time and Pentax must lose this kind of customers who want our system to go more backwards than forward!

Radu
08-19-2008, 11:44 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I confess I haven't read the rest of this thread, but this whole decision must be emotional more than anything else.

Eventually, Pentaxke finished buying a camera slowlier, bigger and heavier than the K20D (he says). He says better IQ but here again many would say NO APS-C camera currently beats the K20D. Let's just say that both have similiar IQ and IQ wouldn't be the reason to jump horses.

There is a clear message here:

Pentax missed to satisfy a classic-style customer (MX, istD: small, versatile AND professional) by not providing an update for 4 years now and showing no intention to do so in the future.

Pentax choose to frustrate a customer.

The result is that who was a loyal customer now is turned away and won't come back. Pentax better listens to stories like this!
QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Falconeye,

No offence to Marc but I feel (and told him so) that no matter what camera Pentax would provide he was decided to jump ship anyway:



I guess not enough people asked him what kind of exclusive brand is Pentax so he chose a much obscure one. Thanks God there is nothing smaller in market share out there (Leica, maybe?)!
Besides when you refute almost all the advances Pentax put in cameras recently (advanced SR, more Mp) and you sell gems of optics to buy couple Nikon primes and some consumer zooms there is little chance that you'll get better images than a K20D coupled to those limiteds. So (as much as I apreciate your insights) I guess your analysis it's not spot on this time and Pentax must lose this kind of customers who want our system to go more backwards than forward!

Radu
@Falconeye: I think you're straight on, with what you say. I confess that some things emotional have played me parting (although not all of it...)
@Radu: if it where to stand apart of the crowd, then I wouldn't have troubled with Fuji in the first place. For many, I am now a Nikonian (God forbid!)
And about going backwards: I am not going to comment on that one...

@all the rest: thanks for the heads up!
08-19-2008, 12:57 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxke Quote
@Falconeye: I think you're straight on, with what you say. I confess that some things emotional have played me parting (although not all of it...)
@Radu: if it where to stand apart of the crowd, then I wouldn't have troubled with Fuji in the first place. For many, I am now a Nikonian (God forbid!)
And about going backwards: I am not going to comment on that one...

@all the rest: thanks for the heads up!
Marc,

I really hope there is no bad blood between us because I fully respect your choice and just because I am happy with Pentax doesn't mean at all that everybody should be.

Have fun with your new gear!
Radu
08-19-2008, 03:24 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
So (as much as I apreciate your insights) I guess your analysis it's not spot on this time and Pentax must lose this kind of customers
RaduA, I feel flattered by your appreciation even if I failed this time

You may be right. Still, I think that the compact, versatile and professional 35mm SLR always was a niche belonging to Olympus (not 35mm anymore) and Pentax (since the analog MX and digital *istD). I see no reason why Pentax would give up that market. But still they risk to do so.

Personally, I allow myself to be more patient than Pentaxke because I am still happy with my *istDS/DA40 combo (for travelling light) besides my K20D. But there will be a day when I will want to replace it ...

Maybe soon, with more than 3 bodies on the market, Pentax can address this again.
08-19-2008, 04:31 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
RaduA, I feel flattered by your appreciation even if I failed this time

You may be right. Still, I think that the compact, versatile and professional 35mm SLR always was a niche belonging to Olympus (not 35mm anymore) and Pentax (since the analog MX and digital *istD). I see no reason why Pentax would give up that market. But still they risk to do so.

Personally, I allow myself to be more patient than Pentaxke because I am still happy with my *istDS/DA40 combo (for travelling light) besides my K20D. But there will be a day when I will want to replace it ...

Maybe soon, with more than 3 bodies on the market, Pentax can address this again.
Falconeye,

I also want a small and feature full body to go with the limiteds but let's face it I don't think that Pentax has the resources to do this soon. The new "K2000D" will be a more than decent small camera and very cheap which is not a bad thing at all. Of course it won't have a pentaprism or very advanced sensor and image pipeline but will have some modern features older "D family" hadn't. All in all a welcomed addition to our system.

Best regards,
Radu
08-20-2008, 08:26 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
5) If you just pick the correct lottery number the first time, you wouldn't have to keep buying tickets! Duh!
- Agreed, I don't know why folks don't get this either.
ROTFL, you made my day.
08-20-2008, 10:18 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
it I don't think that Pentax has the resources to do this soon.
I don't know what resources have anything to do with it. You can update the ist D cheaply at almost no cost at all... After all the prototype (body) already excists.
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