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**Rondec** · 07-13-2017, 03:21 AM

Well, as another poster mentioned, you aren't investing in a company, you are buying gear. It is a little different.

That said, Ricoh has given strong support for the K mount since purchasing the company and seem inclined to do so into the future. It would actually be more concerning if they decided to go mirrorless as Tigs suggests, as it would certainly cause the demise of the k mount and those lenses would only be useful in the future with an adapter. Even if Pentax would go under, the lenses would continue to be functional and could be used on mirrorless cameras like Fuji and Sony as long as you wanted.

Good luck!

stevebrot · 07-13-2017, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Tigs

When digital cameras were first introduced were you one those people that were against them

Nope, early adapter. Next question...

Honestly though, with no sarcasm...If a mirrorless fits your style, go for it; but don't blame Pentax for your investment* in its SLR system. When and if Pentax makes a serious effort with an APS-C or larger-format mirrorless camera, it will not be K-mount.**

Steve

* That single word, "investment", is very important. The idea that one's gear is fungible and that ROI involves something other than the gear doing what it is supposed to do is unrealistic. For a pro, the "investment" is part of the cost of doing business. For those who are unable to sell their output, the "investment" pays out in personal enjoyment only and should include no expectation of resale value.

** Adapters? Sure, Pentax could take its cue from Sony. I could imagine something similar to the LA-EA3 with limited support for non-KAF3 lenses.

Tigs · 07-13-2017, 11:39 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

Well, as another poster mentioned, you aren't investing in a company, you are buying gear. It is a little different.

That said, Ricoh has given strong support for the K mount since purchasing the company and seem inclined to do so into the future. It would actually be more concerning if they decided to go mirrorless as Tigs suggests, as it would certainly cause the demise of the k mount and those lenses would only be useful in the future with an adapter. Even if Pentax would go under, the lenses would continue to be functional and could be used on mirrorless cameras like Fuji and Sony as long as you wanted.

Good luck!

As you say they could go mirrorless and create a great adapter so K-mount lenses would be usable.
As far as I know the current adpters for Sony and Fuji do not allow auto focus and reviews say they are not very good quality.

---------- Post added 07-13-17 at 12:03 PM ----------

Originally posted by stevebrot

Nope, early adapter. Next question...

Honestly though, with no sarcasm...If a mirrorless fits your style, go for it; but don't blame Pentax for your investment* in its SLR system. When and if Pentax makes a serious effort with an APS-C or larger-format mirrorless camera, it will not be K-mount.**

It's not that mirrorless fits my style it's more that their advantages seem very clear. Opinions may vary, but I think that's undeniable it won't take too long until high end mirrorless cameras take over the DSLR market. A bit like Tesla cars, new application of technology, already superior in many ways vs gas powered cars that have been around for much longer.

I didn't blame Pentax - However, for whatever reason they seem to be lagging behind in sales, popularity and third party support.

**jatrax** · 07-13-2017, 12:40 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Tigs

Opinions may vary,

Yes they do.

Originally posted by Tigs

I think that's undeniable it won't take too long until high end mirrorless cameras take over the DSLR market

I disagree. Folks have been saying that for years. Mirrorless is an option and a good one for some, but I see no possibility that they will eliminate the DSLR in my lifetime. Eventually? Who knows.
If you want mirrorless there are many options, Pentax is not one.

**Rondec** · 07-13-2017, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Tigs

As you say they could go mirrorless and create a great adapter so K-mount lenses would be usable.
As far as I know the current adpters for Sony and Fuji do not allow auto focus and reviews say they are not very good quality.

---------- Post added 07-13-17 at 12:03 PM ----------

It's not that mirrorless fits my style it's more that their advantages seem very clear. Opinions may vary, but I think that's undeniable it won't take too long until high end mirrorless cameras take over the DSLR market. A bit like Tesla cars, new application of technology, already superior in many ways vs gas powered cars that have been around for much longer.

I didn't blame Pentax - However, for whatever reason they seem to be lagging behind in sales, popularity and third party support.

The advantages of mirrorless are over stated. The cameras are smaller -- as long as you don't mount a lens or only use a slow zoom. Stick a 70-200 f2.8 or 85 mm f1.4 and the advantage vanishes. EVFs have some interesting features -- focus peaking, histograms and can be brighter in dark situations than OVFs -- albeit for a price -- graininess, lag with most of them, and less battery life. As far as overall performance, you get what you pay for. If you pay the same amount for your mirrorless and SLR, you will actually get really similar performance. I am biased and think that the K-1 out punches the A7r, but certainly both have pluses and minuses.

What you are not going to get is A9 or D5 performance from an 1800 dollar camera, be it mirrorless or SLR.

My personal opinion is that mirrorless camera sales will slow as that market matures. This is the issue that SLR companies have faced for several years.

If you own an A7 then there is plenty of reason to upgrade, as your auto focus is pretty poor and overall camera quality isn't great. But if you own an A7r II, what is going to induce you to fork out another 2 or 3K on a new camera? 8K video? The ability to play Frogger on the rear LCD screen?

We will see what the future holds, but my guess is that there will be some balance between SLRs and mirrorless cameras in the future. Both will sell decently, but not like in the glory days of four or five years ago when digital camera sales were off the charts. Those days are gone and will not return -- primarily because people are holding onto their current gear longer.

As far as the whole adapter question, it is clear that the reduce the functionality of the camera (slow auto focus rate and frame rates) while adding to bulk. While they are a "fix" that allows for a transition to a new mount, they are not ideal and tend to drive current users to seek other options.

stevebrot · 07-13-2017, 01:09 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Tigs

I think that's undeniable it won't take too long until high end mirrorless cameras take over the DSLR market.

Leica fans have been saying that for the last 60 years.

While often stated, I fail to see the basis for the claim of technical superiority or clear advantages for high-end mirrorless digital vs. dSLRs. At present, I am unaware of any mirrorless that offers superior image quality to that available from current dSLRs nor am I aware of any "game changing" feature(s) that is driving high end buyers to that corner.

I believe I have heard the full list of "clear advantages", but as a photographer with over 45 years behind the lens, I find few of those compelling. It is not that the SLR is so perfect, it is just that the mirrorless alternative (even high end) falls short in supporting core SLR strengths. The Leica reference above is pertinent. There are few image quality arguments to separate the M-body Leica from its reflex competition and none that are intrinsic to its mirrorless form.

Steve

(...has eight mirrorless ILC bodies...shoots the rangefinders where any of the SLRs would be a slug...shoots the 120 folder for silly fun of using the vintage gear...shoots the 4x5 field camera where 6x7 or larger is desired and camera movements are useful...)

(...has no desire to continue the thread hijack further...)

**Pål Jensen** · 07-13-2017, 01:27 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Tigs

It's not that mirrorless fits my style it's more that their advantages seem very clear. Opinions may vary, but I think that's undeniable it won't take too long until high end mirrorless cameras take over the DSLR market. .A bit like Tesla cars, new application of technology, already superior in many ways vs gas powered cars that have been around for much longer.

There's no such thing as mirrorless technology. A mirrorless camera is a camera without an optical viewfinder. They are in fact the oldest type of camera on the planet. Mirrorless is no more technology than a car without a radio is an example of radioless technology.
Not everyone think that they need an optical viewfinder and that's OK. But mirrorless will never kill off the DSLR as long as optics exist.

biz-engineer · 07-13-2017, 01:28 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Tigs

I didn't blame Pentax - However, for whatever reason they seem to be lagging behind in sales, popularity and third party support.

I often read mixes between camera specs and sales and popularity and third party support. All those are actually fairly independent variables, but a lot of people make them related to each other. A company can have an excellent after sales service to cope with poor product quality, that's just an example. About popularity, another example: Ferrari isn't as popular as Fiat. About sales? Pizzas sell in much larger quantities than Sony cameras. In fact, there is no doubt that the amount of promotional spending for mirrorless cameras by Sony and Fuji is way more than for DSLR, so, I hope they are able to sell such cameras , otherwise it would be such waste of money. Sony spend more than Canon, just for example Sony buy front page space on DPR for one month non stop, which not even Canon do, and this is absolutely unrelated to what the camera model can do. In other words, being a successful camera company has nothing to do with technology, it's all about business. Today, all recent camera model are excellent, a lot of people don't feel the need to buy a new model, the difference in sales depends essentially on how much brainwash is done to make people believe something is better, at the end, people can't tell the difference from images taken with camera A or camera B. And... that's so true when the camera use the same sensor from Sony... or a less good version from Canon.

stevebrot · 07-13-2017, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

EVFs have some interesting features -- focus peaking, histograms and can be brighter in dark situations than OVFs -- albeit for a price -- graininess, lag with most of them, and less battery life.

Those are camera review checklist items and each of them valid. The key area where EVF struggle is with providing adequate fidelity to the optical image, particularly in regards to DOF presentation. What the EVF shows is a rendering of the sensor output in the same sense as the what one sees on the rear LCD (i.e. colors and contrast not found in nature). Mind you, the optical viewfinder on most SLRs shows somewhat exaggerated DOF but has higher fidelity to the optical image than the high-end EVFs I have sampled.

Steve

biz-engineer · 07-13-2017, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

There's no such thing as mirrorless technology. A mirrorless camera is a camera without an optical viewfinder. They are in fact the oldest type of camera on the planet. Mirrorless is no more technology than a car without a radio is an example of radioless technology.

Funny thing is, all recent DSLR offer live view, mirrorless is exactly the same, the prism is replaced by a tiny high density lcd with a few lenses on top, the camera switches between the back lcd driver (liveview mode) and the small lcd of the viewfinder. Technically, it is easier to design than a DSLR, less mecanical parts, and it is presented and sold as new tech... and a lot of people believe it.

Tigs · 07-13-2017, 01:49 PM - **1 Like**