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View Poll Results: Would you like a pure Monochrome camera?
Yes 3229.91%
No, but it should be available 1413.08%
No, there is no point in it 6157.01%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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07-18-2017, 04:10 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
The problem with the LEica Monochrom has always been the poor dynamic range
You just have to be able to compensate, Digital sensors are linear and don't have the highlight curve that film does. I know, the CWA meter in the Monochrom isn't much help when it comes to precise exposure. The monochrom is marketed towards people who think before pressing the shutter button, I wouldn't call it a tourist happy cam. I think that fact is highlighted by the price alone.

The current Leica Monochrom Typ 246 features a CMOS sensor and has better dynamic range, and superior IQ at high ISO. Highlights will still clip into oblivion, but you can afford to underexpose by a few stops and pull the image back up. The noise levels with the CMOS equipped typ246 are very low, ISO25,000 is perfectly usable, with grain reminiscent of ISO 800 B&W films. At high ISO B&W images converted from the CFA equipped Leica TypM240 look worse than those straight from the Typ246.

07-18-2017, 05:08 PM - 1 Like   #32
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You have to think outside the box. What about a camera that had *replaceable* sensors, like focusing screens? Then you could get an IR-modified sensor, a B&W sensor, and a standard sensor.
07-18-2017, 05:25 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by asharpe Quote
You have to think outside the box. What about a camera that had *replaceable* sensors, like focusing screens? Then you could get an IR-modified sensor, a B&W sensor, and a standard sensor.
Focus screens are bad enough. Replaceable sensors? Yikes. As if it isn't already easy enough to get dust/dirt on a sensor.
07-18-2017, 05:58 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by asharpe Quote
You have to think outside the box. What about a camera that had *replaceable* sensors, like focusing screens? Then you could get an IR-modified sensor, a B&W sensor, and a standard sensor.
That's not so much outside the box as total fantasy. What would be good is to be able to order bodies with alternative sensors from the factory...but no manufacturer that I know of allows for this (simplest) solution, let alone designing a user-servicable sensor assembly on every body, with the necessary connectors and access to allow a layman to perform the task, just so that a handful of people can do it. If the market isn't there for options in the first place, it certainly isn't there for a plug and play solution.

07-18-2017, 06:20 PM   #35
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Full frame K-1 monochrome? I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
I haven't picked up my K-1 in months in preference for the IR converted K-01 just because of this - I love shooting in B/W (monochrome.)
Post will give amazing photos just as monochrome prints from color negatives did but it's just not the same.
There's something special about shooting and seeing in B/W, plus starting with a fine detailed white/black negative can't be replicated.
07-18-2017, 07:19 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
There's also the issue of editing the manual and designing the box for the new model.

It's then a matter of dividing all those costs over the number of monochrome models to get the up-charge required not to lose money on the K-1M.
Yes, but those things are not impossible (or even that huge), and it's a one-time effort, not a per-camera cost. And presumably if Ricoh or someone wanted to make the effort to do it, it would be in the context of planning to introduce future monochrome models, in which case the same code could be reused.
07-18-2017, 07:26 PM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcrichmond Quote
Full frame K-1 monochrome? I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
I haven't picked up my K-1 in months in preference for the IR converted K-01 just because of this - I love shooting in B/W (monochrome.)
Post will give amazing photos just as monochrome prints from color negatives did but it's just not the same.
There's something special about shooting and seeing in B/W, plus starting with a fine detailed white/black negative can't be replicated.
I much rather shoot my IR converted K10D (720 filter) than my K3. One reason is the extra challenge IR provides. An equally strong reason is simplicity/complexity in its near B&W results. It's the textures, tones, and contrast that are not in the color images. The K3 is easier to use, is more versatile, has greater sensitivity, has greater resolution, and has live view, but the K10D is almost pure B&W.

Would I get a pure monochrome? No! However, I am looking for a good deal on a used K3II to turn into another IR, monochrome like camera.
07-18-2017, 07:59 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
That's not so much outside the box as total fantasy.
Really? Well, it looks like as far back as 2013, Nikon was considering it, too, so, although I'm not the first to think about it, it certainly looks like others have thought about it too, and have the means to do something about it: Nikon Files Patent for an Interchangeable Sensor Camera

---------- Post added Jul 18th, 2017 at 08:01 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by timw4mail Quote
Focus screens are bad enough. Replaceable sensors? Yikes. As if it isn't already easy enough to get dust/dirt on a sensor.
I'm not sure it would be that hard to suck out dust automatically when you changed the sensor. The cameras are largely sealed tight, so a small vacuum inside might work.


Last edited by asharpe; 07-18-2017 at 08:07 PM.
07-18-2017, 08:46 PM   #39
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I read online of someone who swapped their E500's color sensor for a monochrome one. That's a bit of time and effort but they loved the results from it.

Ah here it is direct from its creator.
07-18-2017, 10:25 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by asharpe Quote
Really? Well, it looks like as far back as 2013, Nikon was considering it, too, so, although I'm not the first to think about it, it certainly looks like others have thought about it too, and have the means to do something about it: Nikon Files Patent for an Interchangeable Sensor Camera
Not to mention the GX-R...
07-18-2017, 10:49 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Not to mention the GX-R...
While the GX-R was certainly innovative, it did not really give *you* the choice of a sensor; Ricoh picked an appropriate sensor that they thought was appropriate for the lens. And the discussion here is more about an B&W/IR/Normal sensor replacement.
07-19-2017, 01:20 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by timw4mail Quote
I see it more like the equivalent of black & white film. Not for a quality difference, but for the monochrome image.
QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
If you're a photographer who does a lot of, or exclusively, black & white, I think you would want a monochrome camera. If the only option right now is an $8000 Leica,
Theres a much cheaper option.

A feature Fuji provides is "film simulation" of which you can shoot 3 jpegs with one shutter action.Theres a choice of Monochrome and 3 colour filters in their early cameras and more in their more recent models.

I use this feature when I go street shooting, always one is monochrome,the other 2 are colour but depends what i'm shooting.
07-19-2017, 03:49 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Theres a much cheaper option.
If you're just going to use in-camera jpeg development, you are better off shooting RAW and processing in Silver Efex, or any RAW processor. Or just use the Pentax in-camera monochrome 'filters'.

The point of a monochrome sensor is to capture raw monochrome on every pixel, rather than taking a colour image and interpolating the results, giving a much more faithful monochrome image.
07-19-2017, 04:28 PM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
The point of a monochrome sensor is to capture raw monochrome on every pixel, rather than taking a colour image and interpolating the results, giving a much more faithful monochrome image.
Absolutely. And, I could go back to using yellow and red filters!
07-19-2017, 06:07 PM   #45
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I'd be curious if someone from a marketing background/industry would chime in?
Looking at the poll results and giving a variance for supporters who either like the idea and wouldn't buy or answered out of nostalgia from the film days, would 25% seem like a reasonable figure?
Would this justify researching a larger user base to see if ratios remained similar and if so would 25% warrant the beginning phase of R&D?
I know if 25% of my current repeat customers asked for a service, I'd be looking into it, no matter how niche it might seem.
It might be cost or technologically prohibitive at the moment but I would be working on it in the back of my mind for a while.
Would love to hear what marketers or others involved in R&D might think.

---------- Post added 07-19-17 at 06:16 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by lmd91343 Quote
I much rather shoot my IR converted K10D (720 filter) than my K3. One reason is the extra challenge IR provides. An equally strong reason is simplicity/complexity in its near B&W results. It's the textures, tones, and contrast that are not in the color images. The K3 is easier to use, is more versatile, has greater sensitivity, has greater resolution, and has live view, but the K10D is almost pure B&W.

Would I get a pure monochrome? No! However, I am looking for a good deal on a used K3II to turn into another IR, monochrome like camera.
Thank you @Imd91343 for the fantastic description you provided on shooting in B/W.
I wrote a blog piece this month on seeing in black and white and would have loved to use your simple, precise terms.
Simplicity/complexity and texture/tone/contrast are exactly what makes this format what it is.

Last edited by pcrichmond; 07-19-2017 at 06:20 PM.
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