[timw4mail]

How many of those sell? At what price? How many people would benefit from the small, arguable difference in quality between a K-1 and a monochrome K-1? I don't pretend to be an industry expert, but I have a hard time seeing Pentax selling more than a few hundred monochrome K-1 equivalents.


But then again I don't see how a monochrome Leica makes any sense, either. How much does one of those cost? And how much of that is the Leica mystique that charms otherwise reasonable people into buying rebadged Panasonics at two or three times the cost?

I see it more like the equivalent of black & white film. Not for a quality difference, but for the monochrome image.

[ThorSanchez]

I see it more like the equivalent of black & white film. Not for a quality difference, but for the monochrome image.

You can already get a stunning black and white image out of a K-1. You'd be paying a substantial premium for a difference in quality that almost no one could perceive without forensic tools.

[Digitalis]

I'll add a bit of my own perspective on this discussion. I work with two current monochrome cameras: the Phase one Achromatic+ IQ3 Medium format digital back, and the Leica Monochrom.


Leica Monochrom - Leica Summilux-M 21mm f/1.4 ASPH ISO 320 10s f/16

B&W has always had its adherents, and monochrome digital sensors have a number of distinct advantages over Bayer Colour filter array equipped sensors. Right off the bat: Images are significantly sharper than any bayer camera can produce due to there being absolutely no interpolation or de-mosaicing needed to be performed. Hyper-spectral imaging is more common - colour sensors require rather heavy handed UV/IR cut filters in order to be able to replicate colour as accurately as possible, without UV/IR contamination. In B&W if one chooses, this concept can be safely thrown out the window.

The Phase one Achromatic IQ3 digital back has a very wide spectral sensitivity range - UV/IR cut filters are commonly a part of the sensor cover glass but with a request from Phase you can opt out and use the MFDB sans filter for hyper-spectral imaging which has applications in forensic and fine arts photography. Also extreme camera movements that cause lens shading to occur aren't as degrading to image quality as it is on bayer filter equipped sensors, lens shading appears as just another form of vignetting.


Leica Monochrom - Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 [pre-asph] ISO 320 1/640 f/11

One of the drawbacks with digital monochrome sensors is the sensor has to be pretty much perfect, there can't be any glaring faults on it. If there is: the image won't be homogenous. Colour sensors in many ways harbor many defects which can be cleverly mapped out in hardware by using an adjacent pixel - you can't get away with this to the same degree on a monochrome sensor because each pixel element is used in creating the image, such mapping would be just shifting the stuck pixels around.

By removing the light attenuating Bayer Colour filter array has the practical upshot of increasing the sensitivity of the sensor. In the case of the Leica Monochrom: the sensor used is essentially identical to that of the Leica M9 - however, the base ISO of the M9 is 160 - the Monochrom gains a full stop advantage - ISO320 as its base ISO.

The rather high base ISO brings with it a number of advantages, and disadvantages : really fast lenses such as the Leica Noctilux are not really needed as the image quality from the monochrom is equal to the M9 at its base ISO - you can get away with using slower glass in dimmer light. The relatively low maximum shutter speed of 1/4000th means using lenses with apertures wider than f/2 in daylight is not possible without using an ND filter. But also in daylight there is zero chance you will have issues with maintaining high shutter speeds. The High base ISO of the monochrom makes creating long exposure images difficult. The sensor gains a full stop noise advantage over the M9, ISO 10,000 on the Leica monochrom is superb . The luminance noise from the sensor is tightly packed, it looks a lot like 120 format Ilford HP5 pushed to ISO3200 in Rodinal.


Pentax K5IIs - SMCP-K 50mm f/1.2 @ f/1.2 ISO 80 1/250th [ B&W conversion done in post]

The Leica monochrom being a rangefinder means that you can put colour contrast filters on the lens without it disrupting your perception - but you have no post editing options to change this like you do with colour bayer equipped sensors with separate colour channels.

Monochrome sensors are a niche market - but it is a diehard market*. A market that, as far as I can see: isn't being served by any of the 4 major manufacturers. Pentax should exploit this and perhaps create a K-02 with a full format monochrome sensor, or a version of the 645Z with a Monochrome sensor.

monochrome sensors have issues with highlights that color sensors do not

Would you care to expand upon that Adam? From my experience the highlight retention capacity of the Leica Monochrom Vs the Bayer equipped M9 is pretty much identical. Both cameras are based upon CCD sensors which, truth be told aren't anything to write home about when it comes to dynamic range.

* if you need any proof: check out any dedicated digital B&W photography forum.

[victormeldrew]

If I had the money I would buy the Leica Monochrom. I don't have the money, unfortunately.
If Pentax came up with something approaching as good (and as cool) at the price of my K-3II, I would buy it in a heartbeat. But the cost of development and production would mean the price would be much, much higher...on top of that the miniscule market for the body would push the price even higher, since the R&D costs would have to be covered by far fewer customers... by which time the price difference between the 'Pentax Monochrom' and the Leica would be small enough to make the badge worth the extra and the Pentax would be nowhere.

TL/DR - Pentax is not cool enough to get away with it.

[Digitalis]

I don't see how a monochrome Leica makes any sense

Leica produced the Monochrom as a homage to Henri Cartier-Bresson - it has been selling quite well which is really saying something for an elitist marque such as Leica.

Too niche. I doubt anyone but Leica could get away with it.

Really? There is a market for it, the only thing stopping manufacturers from making money off the B&W diehards is their own fear of failure. I know people who loved the Kodak DSC 760M - which was the last production monochrome SLR. Sure you can use a Pixel shifted image from the K-1 and create a B&W conversion from that, but there are many limitations that come with using pixel shift that prevent it being used for everything. And not everyone finds joy in that kind of tedious mucking about with their images.

[ThorSanchez]

Really? There is a market for it, the only thing stopping manufacturers from making money off the B&W diehards is their own fear of failure.

Either that or their market research that indicates they'll never make back their R&D and production startup costs and turn a profit.

[boriscleto]

If Ricoh does this at all it should be a GR M, no need for a DSLR...

Too bad they got rid of the GXR. An M-mount module with a monochrome sensor might have competed with the Leica...

[elicius]

If Ricoh does this at all it should be a GR M, no need for a DSLR...

Too bad they got rid of the GXR. An M-mount module with a monochrome sensor might have competed with the Leica...

Why that?

[boriscleto]

Why that?

Why are the Sigma DPx compacts more popular than the SD SLR & mirrorless?

Although I see the sd Quattro APS-C is cheaper than the DPx cameras...but it isn't really all that compact...especially after you put a giant "Art" lens on it...

[Na Horuk]

Well, I think if you get 200+ paid preorders, Pentax would give it serious consideration. Something like a KP with a couple modifications and pure BW sensor might be interesting, being 'retro' and all. Make it gunmetal with colored false leather and it would really appeal to a certain subculture. Call it KP-M

Honestly, Im really wondering what it would be like to set up a Kickstarter or one of those sites and then kind of 'force' the company to do something about it. I don't know if there are other ways to show a company that consumers are serious

[leekil]

If you're a photographer who does a lot of, or exclusively, black & white, I think you would want a monochrome camera. If the only option right now is an $8000 Leica, I think something that is $2000 or under would be pretty popular. I'm not sure how much the development or production cost would be if you are just presenting a variant on an existing body. How much did the K-5 IIs cost over the K-5 II? Would there be additional production/assembly differences with a Bayer-filter-less camera?

[photoptimist]

In principle, a monochrome DSLR is a very easy change to the hardware -- just have Sony skip the color array application step in the sensor making process (and adjust an quality control procedures for the sensor).

But the change does require a variety of software engineering tasks in the following areas:
1. Adjust or disable the electronic or software channel gain settings
2. Change the calibration on the exposure meter & AE logic to compute monochrome exposure settings from the RGB metering sensors
3. Shift all the ISO range limits on the controls by a stop or so (The ISO 100-204800 range of the K-1 becomes 200-409600 in the K-1M)
4. replace the demosaicing code in the LiveView engine (especially in the zoomed view)
5. replace the demosaicing code in the main JPEG engine
6. adjust focus peaking parameters (the default would probably over-peak)
7. adjust antialiasing simulator (a monochrome sensor needs less antialiasing)
8. bypass or disable all the white balance, saturation, color filter features on buttons & menus
9. Test all these changes to make sure nothing was broken.

There's also the issue of editing the manual and designing the box for the new model.

It's then a matter of dividing all those costs over the number of monochrome models to get the up-charge required not to lose money on the K-1M.

[timw4mail]

In principle, a monochrome DSLR is a very easy change to the hardware -- just have Sony skip the color array application step in the sensor making process (and adjust an quality control procedures for the sensor).

But the change does require a variety of software engineering tasks in the following areas:
1. Adjust or disable the electronic or software channel gain settings
2. Change the calibration on the exposure meter & AE logic to compute monochrome exposure settings from the RGB metering sensors
3. Shift all the ISO range limits on the controls by a stop or so (The ISO 100-204800 range of the K-1 becomes 50-102400 in the K-1M)
4. replace the demosaicing code in the LiveView engine (especially in the zoomed view)
5. replace the demosaicing code in the main JPEG engine
6. adjust focus peaking parameters (the default would probably over-peak)
7. adjust antialiasing simulator (a monochrome sensor needs less antialiasing)
8. bypass or disable all the white balance, saturation, color filter features on buttons & menus
9. Test all these changes to make sure nothing was broken.

There's also the issue of editing the manual and designing the box for the new model.

It's then a matter of dividing all those costs over the number of monochrome models to get the up-charge required not to lose money on the K-1M.

Hardware-wise, simple. Software-wise, not so much.

[Kevin B123]

In principle, a monochrome DSLR is a very easy change to the hardware -- just have Sony skip the color array application step in the sensor making process (and adjust an quality control procedures for the sensor).

But the change does require a variety of software engineering tasks in the following areas:
1. Adjust or disable the electronic or software channel gain settings
2. Change the calibration on the exposure meter & AE logic to compute monochrome exposure settings from the RGB metering sensors
3. Shift all the ISO range limits on the controls by a stop or so (The ISO 100-204800 range of the K-1 becomes 50-102400 in the K-1M)
4. replace the demosaicing code in the LiveView engine (especially in the zoomed view)
5. replace the demosaicing code in the main JPEG engine
6. adjust focus peaking parameters (the default would probably over-peak)
7. adjust antialiasing simulator (a monochrome sensor needs less antialiasing)
8. bypass or disable all the white balance, saturation, color filter features on buttons & menus
9. Test all these changes to make sure nothing was broken.

There's also the issue of editing the manual and designing the box for the new model.


t's then a matter of dividing all those costs over the number of monochrome models to get the up-charge required not to lose money on the K-1M.

Good list, also there will need to be a new maintenance manual for the worldwide repair organisation, perhaps special tooling to enable repair or calibration and training on same. But hey, didn't they make a gold LX once?, anything is possible at a price
While many posters can see a small market, it may still not be viable unless Pentax make it a pet project for the kudos and lower the ROI accordingly.

[elicius]

But the change does require a variety of software engineering tasks in the following areas:
1. Adjust or disable the electronic or software channel gain settings
2. Change the calibration on the exposure meter & AE logic to compute monochrome exposure settings from the RGB metering sensors
3. Shift all the ISO range limits on the controls by a stop or so (The ISO 100-204800 range of the K-1 becomes 200-409600 in the K-1M)
4. replace the demosaicing code in the LiveView engine (especially in the zoomed view)
5. replace the demosaicing code in the main JPEG engine
6. adjust focus peaking parameters (the default would probably over-peak)
7. adjust antialiasing simulator (a monochrome sensor needs less antialiasing)
8. bypass or disable all the white balance, saturation, color filter features on buttons & menus
9. Test all these changes to make sure nothing was broken.

There's also the issue of editing the manual and designing the box for the new model.

It's then a matter of dividing all those costs over the number of monochrome models to get the up-charge required not to lose money on the K-1M.

If the companies would make the firmware opensource the community would have already done this for their modified cameras ^^

Honestly, Im really wondering what it would be like to set up a Kickstarter or one of those sites and then kind of 'force' the company to do something about it. I don't know if there are other ways to show a company that consumers are serious

Well that is a funny Idea but it is impossible for us to calculate the break even point for a specifique price per unit…

But big companies should lauch presale compaines similar to kickstarters if they are not sure if a project is sustainable but wanted by a community.