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08-20-2008, 08:33 AM   #1
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K20D, waiting or not ?

I'm considering upgrading my K10D to the K20D. I now have mostly all the lenses I need (18-250, DA12-24, DA40, FA77, DA50-135, FA50, D-FA100, DA10-17, FA80-320, Sigma 28-105). The only thing that makes me a bit hesitant is the upcoming Photokina, I wouldn't like to buy the K20D now if an upscale model is to be announced. From what I could gather here and there, Pentax would only release a entry-level K1000D and maybe 1-2 new lenses. If someone is in the knows, let me know if I should better wait or not ...

08-20-2008, 08:39 AM   #2
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The only guarantee is that there will always be something better coming out in 6-9 months time.

I got the K20D right when it came out, and I've never regretted it. You've probably seen just about everyone that owns one, really likes it. The K20D is a significant upgrade over the K10D, in my opinion.

There was a cartoon I saw in a computer magazine many years ago (when the question was "do I upgrade to the newest processor/OS/whatever"). Two cavemen were watching a third caveman cooking over an open fire. The first one says to the second one, "I'm going to wait until they perfect it".
08-20-2008, 08:48 PM   #3
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Personally, my feelings only.I dont think anything will be exciting to see at photokina,but watch out for pma 2009 in the spring,but it wouldnt hurt upgrading to the k20d.Its a hard camera to beat for the price.
08-20-2008, 09:02 PM   #4
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Hmm, I didnt see this thread and posted almost the same question..
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/35134-k10d-vs-k20d-vs.html

08-20-2008, 09:25 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I'm considering upgrading my K10D to the K20D. I now have mostly all the lenses I need (18-250, DA12-24, DA40, FA77, DA50-135, FA50, D-FA100, DA10-17, FA80-320, Sigma 28-105). The only thing that makes me a bit hesitant is the upcoming Photokina, I wouldn't like to buy the K20D now if an upscale model is to be announced. From what I could gather here and there, Pentax would only release a entry-level K1000D and maybe 1-2 new lenses. If someone is in the knows, let me know if I should better wait or not ...
I've been answering this question for nearly twenty years - most of that time, with reference to computers, but it's basically the same question. And my answer is always the same: If you can stand to wait, wait. If you can't stand to wait, then buy now. What do I mean by "can't stand to wait"? Whatever you want it to mean. If you're itching to buy so badly that you feel you're going to explode, well, then buy. If you have to shoot a wedding in four weeks and you'd like the K20D's resolution and superior high-ISO performance, then buy.

But if you can stand to wait, and if Pentax does announce something at Photokina that looks to replace the K20D in the line-up or at least compete with it, then you might get a better price on the K20D. Or have the chance to get the new item.

People who buy new products as soon as they hit the shelves have the pleasure of owning the latest and greatest gear - at least for a few months. But unless you have the money to buy four new cameras a year (of different brands), you are pretty much doomed to being behind the curve much of the time, no matter what you own. Canon probably has something coming that will make Nikon D3 owners a little bit jealous.

My sense is that the high-end digital SLRs now have a usability life of about three years - very similar to the usability life of computers. That is, it takes about three years for the new cameras to make the three-year old ones look really old.

Will
08-21-2008, 04:20 AM   #6
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My K10D's are still just as good as when I bought them. I don't see a need to upgrade at this time. Maybe when K30D arrives I'll consider it.

c[_]
08-21-2008, 04:56 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
I've been answering this question for nearly twenty years - most of that time, with reference to computers,
I know what you mean, and for computers my rule is to never be the early adopter. It's true for any electronic device. First they cost much more when they are released and second they can have early defects. Like the hot pixels on the K20D fixed by firmware a few months after it was released. Now that the dust has settled on the K20D, I see it's a good camera, maybe not worth completely the upgrade as it's more expensive than the K10D. If I can sell the K10D, I may get it for about half the price.

The only thing that is making me hesitate is that:
1) my K10D still produces great pictures
2) I'm not sure the K20D will beat it in every aspect (ISO100 maybe better on the K20D, some colors may not be the same)
3) I am not sure I want to manage 14.6MP of data on my hard disks and photo editors. 10MP was already a lot.
4) What if the next model is ready to hit the street in a few weeks?
08-21-2008, 07:14 AM   #8
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I did an upgrade when the cost for me was just ~$150 (sell K10D - buy K20D)... K20D is just not worth $1000 new - if you can buy it new for low $500-600s then yes...

08-21-2008, 08:14 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I know what you mean, and for computers my rule is to never be the early adopter. It's true for any electronic device. First they cost much more when they are released and second they can have early defects.
Well, if this policy works for you, I don't want to change your mind about it. As I said, my advice is, if you can stand to wait, wait.

But my own take on it is that the pros and cons of living on the bleeding edge vary case to case. ON balance, I have been an early adopter. I've been burned occasionally. The first release of Mac OS X (March 2001, I remember it like it was last week) was horrible. Just awful. Only time I've ever had to remove an OS from my machine it was so bad. But quite often the first release is a winner. The K10D, for example.

And there's a difference between hardware and software problems. Software problems can usually be fixed fairly easily by updates. Hardware problems may be much harder to fix. The worst piece of hardware I've bought in the last eight years is the Pentax 540 FGZ flash unit, and it's been out for years and years.

If you DON'T buy, you lose the opportunity to take advantage of whatever is good about the new product. And sometimes you actually save money by buying first, even though new releases do usually cost more. I bought my Pentax K100D just about the same time the K10D was released. The K10D wasn't really on my radar screen, and I missed it. I paid close to $600 for the K100D (with kit lens). Sold it later for a tad over $400 (body only). Paid a little over $850 for the K10D (body only) a couple of months later. Do the math: 600 - 400 + 850 = $1050. Would have been cheaper to buy the K10D in the first place.

Moral? Shop carefully, educate yourself, and keep in mind that you can't hope to win this game until you've learned a lot by making costly mistakes. And even then, the House always wins.

Somebody here said the K20D isn't worth $1000. Not true. It's not hard to get a K20D these days for less than $1000, at least here in the USA, so of course you should try to get the best current deal. But my impression is that many folks outside the USA pay way more, in translated dollars, than we Americans do. Even Canadians pay more. And I believe they get their money's worth. Not to mention that just a very few years ago, cameras that weren't anywhere near as good as the K20D cost $5000 or more.

Shop, try to get a good deal, but don't sweat a few dollars. Try to be happy with what you buy. I offer that advice in all humility, because I have huge difficulty taking it myself.


QuoteQuote:
Now that the dust has settled on the K20D, I see it's a good camera, maybe not worth completely the upgrade as it's more expensive than the K10D. If I can sell the K10D, I may get it for about half the price.

The only thing that is making me hesitate is that:
1) my K10D still produces great pictures
2) I'm not sure the K20D will beat it in every aspect (ISO100 maybe better on the K20D, some colors may not be the same)
3) I am not sure I want to manage 14.6MP of data on my hard disks and photo editors. 10MP was already a lot.
4) What if the next model is ready to hit the street in a few weeks?
Re #4: If you can wait, wait.

Re #3: Not unreasonable. Those big files do fill up a hard drive faster. The only consolation here is that storage is cheap. Buy yourself a 500 GB external drive. This LaCie 500 GB drive is available for $100. A digital camera is not a self-contained one-time purchase, like buying a watermelon. A digital camera is the platform for a whole new area of your budget. You get the camera, you now need to buy lenses, tripods, carrying bags, more lenses, maybe some filters, flash units, a battery grip, more batteries, more lenses, SD cards - and that's if you're just a hobbyist! Storage for your photos is an essential part of the picture, so factor that into your budget. Fortunately, storage now is the least expensive part of the equation.

Re #2 and #1 (which seems basically the same point): K20D's image quality vs K10's. It depends. It is usually the case that superior hardware is clearly superior only in marginal or special cases, and I think that's true here. Need to shoot at ISO 1600 or higher? At 1600 the K20D is significantly better. Need to shoot, oh, a bridal gown with extremely subtle variations in shading and texture? The K20D will be superior there, too, although the differences are harder to see. For most normal situations, on the other hand, the K10D can indeed take photos that are impossible to distinguish from the K20D.

Will
08-21-2008, 08:43 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote

Somebody here said the K20D isn't worth $1000. Not true.
very TRUE, man... you overpaid for your K10D also, I paid for a new one : all inclusive $609 - $100 Pentax rebate (which I received) - my credit card cashback (3% of $609)... and sold it for $500 - $25 mailing cost - paypal fees... and that was not the best deal for a new K10D either.
08-21-2008, 09:34 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
very TRUE, man... you overpaid for your K10D also...
I purchased my K10D in Feb or March 2007, and I can assure you that the price I paid was the best one available at the time.

A key element in this discussion is the concept of opportunity cost. It's hard for me to calculate it here, but let me put it in the simplest terms. Say you've been a die-hard film fan and you're getting ready to buy your first digital camera. If you decide to postpone your purchase for a couple months because you think something better may be on the horizon, you lose the opportunity to take the hundreds of digital photos that you could have taken if you purchased a camera and got started now. You could sort of calculate that cost by doing what nobody does - taking photos with your film camera without hesitation, take every shot you would have taken with the digital camera. Opportunity cost is the cost of the processing and printing or scanning of all those photos - and it will be considerable. (I'm assuming that you'd feel free, with a digital camera, to take hundreds of photos a week.) And moreover, you would also lose the opportunity to start learning about digital photography today.

This doesn't lead to the conclusion that you should buy without hesitation. It simply means that, there's a cost to going one way and a cost to going the other. You might save a couple hundred dollars by waiting many months, but you've paid the opportunity cost in lost shots, lost learning, etc.

You can't win, so it's better to try not to worry about these things. I confess: I personally find it almost impossible NOT to worry about these things. But I know that it's better not to.

Will
08-21-2008, 11:26 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
I purchased my K10D in Feb or March 2007, and I can assure you that the price I paid was the best one available at the time.
unless you use Pentax to earn for your living OR unless your income is >= 100x the cost of camera you do not need to rush
to buy the latest model that fast
08-21-2008, 11:31 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Say you've been a die-hard film fan and you're getting ready to buy your first digital camera. If you decide to postpone your purchase for a couple months because you think something better may be on the horizon, you lose the opportunity to take the hundreds of digital photos that you could have taken if you purchased a camera and got started now.
OP says "I'm considering upgrading my K10D to the K20D."... you are talking about not exactly his situation - and I was using my *istDL until K10D dropped to the reasonable price.
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