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05-06-2018, 03:40 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by kyteflyer Quote
I got to wondering about seals as I am about to sell my Pentax gear (its just too heavy for me now) and am thinking I won't advertise as weather resistant, because it might not be, now, being quite old.
The DA 18-55mm II isn't weather resistant at all.

05-06-2018, 01:14 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by angerdan Quote
The DA 18-55mm II isn't weather resistant at all.
I have the WR 18-55, but I was more concerned about the K200D I've put up for sale on gumtree, locally. I'm not selling WR lenses with it, I'll still hang on to my K5 for a while yet.
05-15-2018, 01:15 AM   #33
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My first Pentax was the K20D, the main reason I purchase it was the weather sealing, coz I shoot lot of outdoors, I can't find any other made with weather sealing at that price point. My one did get water leaking problem, the top LCD got moisture condensation like ordinary waterproof watches, but didn't hurt the electronics it still shoot, please note I use only weather seal lenses in the rain and did not change lens in out door, so the camera body should remain dry inside. The camera occasionally freeze up and need to remove the battery to restart, not caused by water damage, this problem also on the K7 but not the K5 and K3. My K3 got water damage in a down pour caused it complete blackout, the water entered from the battery door and ruined the electronics, coz I put the camera up side down with a sling strap. Pentax first refused to repair FOC said it was caused by human error, but I insist I did not do anything wrong with it, after some 'communications' the camera was sent back to Japan for inspection, after 3 mths I got a brand new replacement FOC ! I use battery grip all the time ever since for added water protection.
07-07-2018, 02:02 PM - 1 Like   #34
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My first Pentax was the K50 followed by the K3, and a big factor in purchase was weather sealing. The advice given in this thread is excellent, but I will say that the weather sealing has been very effective in my situations. I try to shield my camera as best I can, but during shooting it can be tricky at times. I have shot in torrential blowing rain as well as in a dust storm in the middle of a dune field and am yet to see either camera fail from moisture issues. The K50 has aperture/shutter issues, but that's another story...

07-16-2018, 03:43 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
With a few notable exceptions, most threads on this site that specifically relate to weather seals generally fall into three main groups: reports of failed seals and/or rants about expectation of seal performance and/or Ricoh voiding warranty when water is found inside the camera. The standard responses range from success stories ("seals saved my camera"), sympathy comments, more rant, and suggestions of user (victim?) blame. That last is particularly prominent to the point that I have been thinking that a short treatise on user responsibility may be more kind and ultimately more helpful. Note that this note specifically excludes discussion of lens flange seals and/or use of focus/zoom on a sealed lens. The intent here is focus on the body only.*

Mods: Feel free to relocate if needed

A few initial talking points:
  • Given enough time and/or pressure differential, any seal in any system will fail
  • All seals degrade with age and factors such as heat, ozone, contamination, etc. may contribute to the process
  • Hermetic seals are only a good idea if a static internal environment is also a good idea
  • Many on this site and elsewhere who have shot electronic film cameras and did so under challenging conditions for many years without failure due to moisture
  • The above four points strongly infer that mindfulness and appropriate expectation might be combined to secure a good result. (That certainly reads stuffy.)

When water gets in with help from the user

I have my K-3 in front of me as I type. Pentax claims 92 environmental seals and has featured photos and video showing the camera quite thoroughly wet, if not soaked. That appears to be a clear invitation to excess. On the body, I count six points where user behavior may reduce the benefit of the camera's seals. They are (working from the top down)...
  1. Microphone port flap...must be properly seated
  2. USB, HDMI, DC-in flap...very easy to not get fully seated to seal
  3. SD Card door...probably the weakest point in the system, though it is quite possible that there may be additional internal seals similar to those used with the hot shoe
  4. Wired remote port flap...must be properly seated
  5. Battery door...I would not leave the camera base sitting in standing water...'nuff said, eh?
  6. Grip contact cover...if properly seated, probably is quite effective, however, see point #5 above
Some might also add the lens mount (duh) and PC sync cap.

As is noted above, time is not our friend where water is concerned and while there are well-documented occurrences where a Pentax camera has survived full immersion or cleaning under a gentle stream of water, prompt removal of standing water from the camera is a prudent course of action. Some additional thoughts regarding time and pressure...
  • Avoid situations where the camera may end up sitting in pooled water (e.g. bottom of leaky camera bag or ice chest**)
  • A splash is a high pressure moment. The same is true for a falling drop of rain. A few more words about "splash". There has been a subtle move by manufacturers to use "splash" in preference to "all-weather", or "rain" when describing seal performance. I think that is is safe to assume that "splash" as a "waffle word" does not include firehose, 30' waterfalls, garden hose nozzle, or a rogue wave at the sea shore.
  • Aftermarket plastic or glass protectors for rear and top LCDs may allow water to pass and hold it against the main seals for the LCD itself

On the subject of humidity

Water in the camera is not always due to seal failure and damage to internal components due to moisture is not always due to gross incursion of liquid water. The sad truth is that water vapor in the air will follow the concentration gradient and while seals may slow the process, eventually the vapor pressure of H2O inside will be the same as on the outside. Moist air may encourage growth of fungus and when the camera passes from a warm, high humidity environment into a cooler space, condensation on internal surfaces, including electronics and optics, may occur as a result. This has always been a problem for cameras and lenses, particularly in the tropical parts of the globe where specialized storage in low humidity cabinets is not unusual. Another common humidity risk element is present in cold winter areas where outside air is cold and dry with indoors air often being somewhat more humid. Moving a camera filled with warm moist air to a 10°F (-12°C) outdoors will result in condensation within the camera and/or lens. The most obvious indication is condensation on internal optics and mirrors. Note that moving to an air-conditioned space from the humid summer outdoors is very similar. There are many approaches to dealing with humidity and condensation and a full discussion of a little off-topic. Google is our friend. Many thanks to user @JinDesu for suggesting expanded content on humidity.

Please indulge a small aside on the matter of hermetic (love that word) seals. User expectation often is that the camera should be warrantied watertight. The logical extension is that the camera be fairly airtight as well. There are troubling implications to both in that once water or moisture-laden air gets in, it may be very difficult to get the wet out again. The seals work against us and there is a good reason to not make them too tight. It is my belief that Ricoh/Pentax should extend a grace in their warranty restrictions where condensation is a potential cause for water damage.


Best Practices

I won't guaranty that following these suggestions will save one from wet grief, but they are common practice and field-tested and I do believe them to be of value.
  • If one finds that rain gear is needed, it is quite likely that one's camera needs some level of protection as well
  • Do not be presumptuous of the effectiveness of the seals. Hubris is not a virtue. Yes, it is sort of cool to allow the seals to be the first line of defense against the wet (I confess), but it is better to avoid doing so.
  • Do not expose the camera to more than a few minutes of steady rain or penetrating mist. If one needs to wipe the lens front element or camera eyepiece or if water is dripping off the gear, there is reason for concern.
  • Make sure that doors and flaps are properly closed.
  • The seals on exterior doors and flaps as well as o-ring mount gaskets (WR and AR lenses) work best if they are kept clean of grit, lint, or contamination. Many thanks to @BigMackCam for reminding me of this and for his cleaning suggestions (comment BELOW)
  • Do not allow water to stand on the camera. Carry a small towel (e.g. dish towel) to wipe water from the camera before returning it to the bag
  • When working in the rain or when potential for splash is high, avoid setups where one of the body doors or flaps are open to the wet
  • Consider use of well-fitted camera rain sleeve or poncho
  • An umbrella can be a huge help, particularly if one has a willing assistant to hold it. Having an umbrella might allow one to carry the camera around the neck or off the shoulder.
  • Most camera bags have minimal water resistance. Know before you go.

When to weep
The following indicators of water penetration have been reported by users on this site...
  • Visible fog, droplets, or sloshing water in rear/top LCD
  • Persistent fogged viewfinder eyepiece
  • Condensation on inner surfaces of SD card access, USB/HDMI access and similar
  • Liquid water inside SD card access or battery bay
  • Sloshing sounds from within the camera
  • Failure of one or more camera controls
  • Failure of rear or top LCD displays
  • Failure to power up
  • Camera is demon possessed
  • Liquid water found during service attempt
  • Gross corrosion found during service attempt

Mitigation
There are multiple reports from users on this site of successful drying after a mild incursion. I have never had to perform the procedure, but conventional wisdom goes something like this:
  • Power off and leave power off until confident that the camera is dry
  • Remove battery
  • Remove lens
  • Open all camera access doors and flaps
  • Place in a closed plastic bag with desiccant to draw moisture out of the body. Tradition calls for dry, uncooked rice grains, but rice can cause problems if allowed to get into the mirror box and other openings and can get mushy. Some users have used other grains or dried legumes (e.g. wheat or lentils) and have reported good results. A recent option is silica gel-based crystal-type kitty litter (see HERE).
  • Drying may take several days and may also require a change of desiccant
Incursion of salt water is much more serious and I hesitate to recommend a DIY solution beyond powering down immediately and removing the battery prior to getting it to a service facility.



Steve

* The rational is partly for convenience and partly due to my lack of experience with sealed lenses (yes, I shoot in the rain without such and have done so for decades).

** Yes, I wrote ice chest and yes, I did see this and no, it was not my camera
Thank you very much for the detailed info *Thumbs up*
07-28-2018, 06:23 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
With a few notable exceptions, most threads on this site that specifically relate to weather seals generally fall into three main groups: reports of failed seals and/or rants about expectation of seal performance and/or Ricoh voiding warranty when water is found inside the camera. The standard responses range from success stories ("seals saved my camera"), sympathy comments, more rant, and suggestions of user (victim?) blame. That last is particularly prominent to the point that I have been thinking that a short treatise on user responsibility may be more kind and ultimately more helpful. Note that this note specifically excludes discussion of lens flange seals and/or use of focus/zoom on a sealed lens. The intent here is focus on the body only.*

Mods: Feel free to relocate if needed

A few initial talking points:
  • Given enough time and/or pressure differential, any seal in any system will fail
  • All seals degrade with age and factors such as heat, ozone, contamination, etc. may contribute to the process
  • Hermetic seals are only a good idea if a static internal environment is also a good idea
  • Many on this site and elsewhere who have shot electronic film cameras and did so under challenging conditions for many years without failure due to moisture
  • The above four points strongly infer that mindfulness and appropriate expectation might be combined to secure a good result. (That certainly reads stuffy.)

When water gets in with help from the user

I have my K-3 in front of me as I type. Pentax claims 92 environmental seals and has featured photos and video showing the camera quite thoroughly wet, if not soaked. That appears to be a clear invitation to excess. On the body, I count six points where user behavior may reduce the benefit of the camera's seals. They are (working from the top down)...
  1. Microphone port flap...must be properly seated
  2. USB, HDMI, DC-in flap...very easy to not get fully seated to seal
  3. SD Card door...probably the weakest point in the system, though it is quite possible that there may be additional internal seals similar to those used with the hot shoe
  4. Wired remote port flap...must be properly seated
  5. Battery door...I would not leave the camera base sitting in standing water...'nuff said, eh?
  6. Grip contact cover...if properly seated, probably is quite effective, however, see point #5 above
Some might also add the lens mount (duh) and PC sync cap.

As is noted above, time is not our friend where water is concerned and while there are well-documented occurrences where a Pentax camera has survived full immersion or cleaning under a gentle stream of water, prompt removal of standing water from the camera is a prudent course of action. Some additional thoughts regarding time and pressure...
  • Avoid situations where the camera may end up sitting in pooled water (e.g. bottom of leaky camera bag or ice chest**)
  • A splash is a high pressure moment. The same is true for a falling drop of rain. A few more words about "splash". There has been a subtle move by manufacturers to use "splash" in preference to "all-weather", or "rain" when describing seal performance. I think that is is safe to assume that "splash" as a "waffle word" does not include firehose, 30' waterfalls, garden hose nozzle, or a rogue wave at the sea shore.
  • Aftermarket plastic or glass protectors for rear and top LCDs may allow water to pass and hold it against the main seals for the LCD itself

On the subject of humidity

Water in the camera is not always due to seal failure and damage to internal components due to moisture is not always due to gross incursion of liquid water. The sad truth is that water vapor in the air will follow the concentration gradient and while seals may slow the process, eventually the vapor pressure of H2O inside will be the same as on the outside. Moist air may encourage growth of fungus and when the camera passes from a warm, high humidity environment into a cooler space, condensation on internal surfaces, including electronics and optics, may occur as a result. This has always been a problem for cameras and lenses, particularly in the tropical parts of the globe where specialized storage in low humidity cabinets is not unusual. Another common humidity risk element is present in cold winter areas where outside air is cold and dry with indoors air often being somewhat more humid. Moving a camera filled with warm moist air to a 10°F (-12°C) outdoors will result in condensation within the camera and/or lens. The most obvious indication is condensation on internal optics and mirrors. Note that moving to an air-conditioned space from the humid summer outdoors is very similar. There are many approaches to dealing with humidity and condensation and a full discussion of a little off-topic. Google is our friend. Many thanks to user @JinDesu for suggesting expanded content on humidity.

Please indulge a small aside on the matter of hermetic (love that word) seals. User expectation often is that the camera should be warrantied watertight. The logical extension is that the camera be fairly airtight as well. There are troubling implications to both in that once water or moisture-laden air gets in, it may be very difficult to get the wet out again. The seals work against us and there is a good reason to not make them too tight. It is my belief that Ricoh/Pentax should extend a grace in their warranty restrictions where condensation is a potential cause for water damage.


Best Practices

I won't guaranty that following these suggestions will save one from wet grief, but they are common practice and field-tested and I do believe them to be of value.
  • If one finds that rain gear is needed, it is quite likely that one's camera needs some level of protection as well
  • Do not be presumptuous of the effectiveness of the seals. Hubris is not a virtue. Yes, it is sort of cool to allow the seals to be the first line of defense against the wet (I confess), but it is better to avoid doing so.
  • Do not expose the camera to more than a few minutes of steady rain or penetrating mist. If one needs to wipe the lens front element or camera eyepiece or if water is dripping off the gear, there is reason for concern.
  • Make sure that doors and flaps are properly closed.
  • The seals on exterior doors and flaps as well as o-ring mount gaskets (WR and AR lenses) work best if they are kept clean of grit, lint, or contamination. Many thanks to @BigMackCam for reminding me of this and for his cleaning suggestions (comment BELOW)
  • Do not allow water to stand on the camera. Carry a small towel (e.g. dish towel) to wipe water from the camera before returning it to the bag
  • When working in the rain or when potential for splash is high, avoid setups where one of the body doors or flaps are open to the wet
  • Consider use of well-fitted camera rain sleeve or poncho
  • An umbrella can be a huge help, particularly if one has a willing assistant to hold it. Having an umbrella might allow one to carry the camera around the neck or off the shoulder.
  • Most camera bags have minimal water resistance. Know before you go.

When to weep
The following indicators of water penetration have been reported by users on this site...
  • Visible fog, droplets, or sloshing water in rear/top LCD
  • Persistent fogged viewfinder eyepiece
  • Condensation on inner surfaces of SD card access, USB/HDMI access and similar
  • Liquid water inside SD card access or battery bay
  • Sloshing sounds from within the camera
  • Failure of one or more camera controls
  • Failure of rear or top LCD displays
  • Failure to power up
  • Camera is demon possessed
  • Liquid water found during service attempt
  • Gross corrosion found during service attempt

Mitigation
There are multiple reports from users on this site of successful drying after a mild incursion. I have never had to perform the procedure, but conventional wisdom goes something like this:
  • Power off and leave power off until confident that the camera is dry
  • Remove battery
  • Remove lens
  • Open all camera access doors and flaps
  • Place in a closed plastic bag with desiccant to draw moisture out of the body. Tradition calls for dry, uncooked rice grains, but rice can cause problems if allowed to get into the mirror box and other openings and can get mushy. Some users have used other grains or dried legumes (e.g. wheat or lentils) and have reported good results. A recent option is silica gel-based crystal-type kitty litter (see HERE).
  • Drying may take several days and may also require a change of desiccant
Incursion of salt water is much more serious and I hesitate to recommend a DIY solution beyond powering down immediately and removing the battery prior to getting it to a service facility.



Steve

* The rational is partly for convenience and partly due to my lack of experience with sealed lenses (yes, I shoot in the rain without such and have done so for decades).

** Yes, I wrote ice chest and yes, I did see this and no, it was not my camera
Thanks for going into this in such detail. I remember reading about the weather seal before I bought a K20D in 2009, and it certainly was one of the things that mattered to me then, but I didn't have the camera long enough (it was stolen) to really learn how well the weather seal protected the camera. I'll take note of your experiences in case I buy another Pentax, so thanks for taking time to write this.
07-28-2018, 06:46 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
With a few notable exceptions, most threads on this site that specifically relate to weather seals generally fall into three main groups: reports of failed seals and/or rants about expectation of seal performance and/or Ricoh voiding warranty when water is found inside the camera. The standard responses range from success stories ("seals saved my camera"), sympathy comments, more rant, and suggestions of user (victim?) blame. That last is particularly prominent to the point that I have been thinking that a short treatise on user responsibility may be more kind and ultimately more helpful. Note that this note specifically excludes discussion of lens flange seals and/or use of focus/zoom on a sealed lens. The intent here is focus on the body only.*

Mods: Feel free to relocate if needed

A few initial talking points:
  • Given enough time and/or pressure differential, any seal in any system will fail
  • All seals degrade with age and factors such as heat, ozone, contamination, etc. may contribute to the process
  • Hermetic seals are only a good idea if a static internal environment is also a good idea
  • Many on this site and elsewhere who have shot electronic film cameras and did so under challenging conditions for many years without failure due to moisture
  • The above four points strongly infer that mindfulness and appropriate expectation might be combined to secure a good result. (That certainly reads stuffy.)

When water gets in with help from the user

I have my K-3 in front of me as I type. Pentax claims 92 environmental seals and has featured photos and video showing the camera quite thoroughly wet, if not soaked. That appears to be a clear invitation to excess. On the body, I count six points where user behavior may reduce the benefit of the camera's seals. They are (working from the top down)...
  1. Microphone port flap...must be properly seated
  2. USB, HDMI, DC-in flap...very easy to not get fully seated to seal
  3. SD Card door...probably the weakest point in the system, though it is quite possible that there may be additional internal seals similar to those used with the hot shoe
  4. Wired remote port flap...must be properly seated
  5. Battery door...I would not leave the camera base sitting in standing water...'nuff said, eh?
  6. Grip contact cover...if properly seated, probably is quite effective, however, see point #5 above
Some might also add the lens mount (duh) and PC sync cap.

As is noted above, time is not our friend where water is concerned and while there are well-documented occurrences where a Pentax camera has survived full immersion or cleaning under a gentle stream of water, prompt removal of standing water from the camera is a prudent course of action. Some additional thoughts regarding time and pressure...
  • Avoid situations where the camera may end up sitting in pooled water (e.g. bottom of leaky camera bag or ice chest**)
  • A splash is a high pressure moment. The same is true for a falling drop of rain. A few more words about "splash". There has been a subtle move by manufacturers to use "splash" in preference to "all-weather", or "rain" when describing seal performance. I think that is is safe to assume that "splash" as a "waffle word" does not include firehose, 30' waterfalls, garden hose nozzle, or a rogue wave at the sea shore.
  • Aftermarket plastic or glass protectors for rear and top LCDs may allow water to pass and hold it against the main seals for the LCD itself

On the subject of humidity

Water in the camera is not always due to seal failure and damage to internal components due to moisture is not always due to gross incursion of liquid water. The sad truth is that water vapor in the air will follow the concentration gradient and while seals may slow the process, eventually the vapor pressure of H2O inside will be the same as on the outside. Moist air may encourage growth of fungus and when the camera passes from a warm, high humidity environment into a cooler space, condensation on internal surfaces, including electronics and optics, may occur as a result. This has always been a problem for cameras and lenses, particularly in the tropical parts of the globe where specialized storage in low humidity cabinets is not unusual. Another common humidity risk element is present in cold winter areas where outside air is cold and dry with indoors air often being somewhat more humid. Moving a camera filled with warm moist air to a 10°F (-12°C) outdoors will result in condensation within the camera and/or lens. The most obvious indication is condensation on internal optics and mirrors. Note that moving to an air-conditioned space from the humid summer outdoors is very similar. There are many approaches to dealing with humidity and condensation and a full discussion of a little off-topic. Google is our friend. Many thanks to user @JinDesu for suggesting expanded content on humidity.

Please indulge a small aside on the matter of hermetic (love that word) seals. User expectation often is that the camera should be warrantied watertight. The logical extension is that the camera be fairly airtight as well. There are troubling implications to both in that once water or moisture-laden air gets in, it may be very difficult to get the wet out again. The seals work against us and there is a good reason to not make them too tight. It is my belief that Ricoh/Pentax should extend a grace in their warranty restrictions where condensation is a potential cause for water damage.


Best Practices

I won't guaranty that following these suggestions will save one from wet grief, but they are common practice and field-tested and I do believe them to be of value.
  • If one finds that rain gear is needed, it is quite likely that one's camera needs some level of protection as well
  • Do not be presumptuous of the effectiveness of the seals. Hubris is not a virtue. Yes, it is sort of cool to allow the seals to be the first line of defense against the wet (I confess), but it is better to avoid doing so.
  • Do not expose the camera to more than a few minutes of steady rain or penetrating mist. If one needs to wipe the lens front element or camera eyepiece or if water is dripping off the gear, there is reason for concern.
  • Make sure that doors and flaps are properly closed.
  • The seals on exterior doors and flaps as well as o-ring mount gaskets (WR and AR lenses) work best if they are kept clean of grit, lint, or contamination. Many thanks to @BigMackCam for reminding me of this and for his cleaning suggestions (comment BELOW)
  • Do not allow water to stand on the camera. Carry a small towel (e.g. dish towel) to wipe water from the camera before returning it to the bag
  • When working in the rain or when potential for splash is high, avoid setups where one of the body doors or flaps are open to the wet
  • Consider use of well-fitted camera rain sleeve or poncho
  • An umbrella can be a huge help, particularly if one has a willing assistant to hold it. Having an umbrella might allow one to carry the camera around the neck or off the shoulder.
  • Most camera bags have minimal water resistance. Know before you go.

When to weep
The following indicators of water penetration have been reported by users on this site...
  • Visible fog, droplets, or sloshing water in rear/top LCD
  • Persistent fogged viewfinder eyepiece
  • Condensation on inner surfaces of SD card access, USB/HDMI access and similar
  • Liquid water inside SD card access or battery bay
  • Sloshing sounds from within the camera
  • Failure of one or more camera controls
  • Failure of rear or top LCD displays
  • Failure to power up
  • Camera is demon possessed
  • Liquid water found during service attempt
  • Gross corrosion found during service attempt

Mitigation
There are multiple reports from users on this site of successful drying after a mild incursion. I have never had to perform the procedure, but conventional wisdom goes something like this:
  • Power off and leave power off until confident that the camera is dry
  • Remove battery
  • Remove lens
  • Open all camera access doors and flaps
  • Place in a closed plastic bag with desiccant to draw moisture out of the body. Tradition calls for dry, uncooked rice grains, but rice can cause problems if allowed to get into the mirror box and other openings and can get mushy. Some users have used other grains or dried legumes (e.g. wheat or lentils) and have reported good results. A recent option is silica gel-based crystal-type kitty litter (see HERE).
  • Drying may take several days and may also require a change of desiccant
Incursion of salt water is much more serious and I hesitate to recommend a DIY solution beyond powering down immediately and removing the battery prior to getting it to a service facility.



Steve

* The rational is partly for convenience and partly due to my lack of experience with sealed lenses (yes, I shoot in the rain without such and have done so for decades).

** Yes, I wrote ice chest and yes, I did see this and no, it was not my camera
The problem with water sealing is this: Yes, the inside of your camera is dry but if it is raining water is getting on your lens, and once it is there it is ruining your photos.

08-15-2018, 08:47 AM   #38
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WR is weather resist

I use the seals to keep the camera going as it starts to rain before I don a weather sleeve. Although my 55-300mm is WR my 35mm and 50mm are not. Here a hand becomes useful. Alternatively, an oversized coat makes for a nice tent shelter. Let it rain!
08-15-2018, 03:35 PM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by peggers Quote
The problem with water sealing is this: Yes, the inside of your camera is dry but if it is raining water is getting on your lens, and once it is there it is ruining your photos.
Yes, however...

- Using a hood helps to avoid water on the front element, especially if you're aware of the direction of any wind
- A rocket blower can be surprisingly effective in the field for removing water droplets from the optics
- Whilst most people here will advise against the use of UV and/or protective "filters", using one means that you can wipe it clean with anything you have to hand. If the weather is inclement, I'll sometimes choose to shoot with a protective filter. When the water droplets on that are at the point where they'll negatively impact my photos, I can wipe it clean with a cloth, tissue, the cuff of my shirt - anything, really - and not have to worry about scratching the front lens element

08-15-2018, 04:27 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
- Whilst most people here will advise against the use of UV and/or protective "filters", using one means that you can wipe it clean with anything you have to hand. If the weather is inclement, I'll sometimes choose to shoot with a protective filter. When the water droplets on that are at the point where they'll negatively impact my photos, I can wipe it clean with a cloth, tissue, the cuff of my shirt - anything, really - and not have to worry about scratching the front lens element
Well said Mike. I do the same!
08-15-2018, 04:51 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Well said Mike. I do the same!
Thanks, Mark

I used to be a big fan of protective filters for just this reason... But I undoubtedly over-used them, leaving them on lenses when it wasn't necessary. Over time, I've realised that even with the best quality filters, there can be a visible impact on image quality - especially on telephoto lenses, and when viewed at 100% reproduction. So, when I can, I shoot without them... but I always have them with me, and if needed, I have absolutely no shame in using them.

IQ is important, no doubt, but so is utility. The benefits of a protective filter can - in some situations - outweigh the negatives. I never shoot at the beach without a protective filter, unless there's no wind and rain (rare in these parts, except for this Summer )...
08-17-2018, 12:58 PM - 1 Like   #42
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UV and other protective filters are a kind of photographic double bind. I no longer use them because I am afraid they will degrade the photo but my earlier concern about damage was well placed on a hike in Canyonlands NP when a companions camera swung into the front of my lens. The filter was shattered but no harm done to the lens. What is a fellow to do? I now rely on the hood alone but there is always a nagging concern.
08-17-2018, 02:22 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
UV and other protective filters are a kind of photographic double bind. I no longer use them because I am afraid they will degrade the photo but my earlier concern about damage was well placed on a hike in Canyonlands NP when a companions camera swung into the front of my lens. The filter was shattered but no harm done to the lens. What is a fellow to do? I now rely on the hood alone but there is always a nagging concern.
I can absolutely prove the degradation that even a good quality UV filter can cause at the long end on my DA*60-250. At 100% reproduction on my 17" laptop screen, it's visible. Down-sampling to smaller reproduction sizes quickly diminishes that degradation, but I remain aware of the pitfalls, especially if I'm shooting "loose" and expecting to crop, and even more so if I'm using the HD DA 1.4x TC.

But... I've shot that lens numerous times in conditions where I needed to wipe the front element dry from time-to-time, and simply didn't have time to fish out a blower, then a brush, then a lens tissue. I just stuffed what I had with me - a microfibre cloth, or my shirt sleeve or tail - down through the hood opening and wiped the UV filter (vaguely) dry. I wouldn't have been confident doing that without the UV filter in place. Maybe I worry too much, but when I feel it's necessary, I don't have an issue using one
08-17-2018, 02:37 PM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I can absolutely prove the degradation that even a good quality UV filter can cause at the long end on my DA*60-250. At 100% reproduction on my 17" laptop screen, it's visible. Down-sampling to smaller reproduction sizes quickly diminishes that degradation, but I remain aware of the pitfalls, especially if I'm shooting "loose" and expecting to crop, and even more so if I'm using the HD DA 1.4x TC.

But... I've shot that lens numerous times in conditions where I needed to wipe the front element dry from time-to-time, and simply didn't have time to fish out a blower, then a brush, then a lens tissue. I just stuffed what I had with me - a microfibre cloth, or my shirt sleeve or tail - down through the hood opening and wiped the UV filter (vaguely) dry. I wouldn't have been confident doing that without the UV filter in place. Maybe I worry too much, but when I feel it's necessary, I don't have an issue using one
Hey. That is what I meant by the double bind. Sometimes it is nice to have something in front of the lens and we can live with whatever small price that exacts.
08-17-2018, 02:43 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Hey. That is what I meant by the double bind. Sometimes it is nice to have something in front of the lens and we can live with whatever small price that exacts.
Yep, I read ya Apologies, I didn't mean for my post to come across as a challenge, though I now realise it might have seemed that way
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