Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-02-2017, 12:26 PM   #1
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 702
Dynamic Range: K-5iis vs K-70 / KP

I'm currently shooting a K-5iis, mainly for landscape work. I would like to move to a KP down the road but haven't seem anything on it's dynamic range performance.

We know the K-5 series had about a half stop better dynamic range than the K-3 series (per DxO and anecdotal reports on this forum). Has the KP/K-70 bridged the gap, or even exceeded the K-5?
Any folks that have made the move and have any observations or thoughts here?
Anyone seen any published data on this question?

Obviously there are a lot more factors involved in a good landscape camera than dynamic range, but was just curious about this particular question.

09-02-2017, 12:29 PM   #2
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 49,796
DR is a hard thing for us to quantify, but the KP and K-70 exhibit much lower noise thanks to improved signal processing, so I would be surprised if the new APS-C sensor didn't exceed the K-5's performance in terms of DR as well. In some cases it's even hard to tell the difference between the KP and K-1!

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

09-02-2017, 12:34 PM - 1 Like   #3
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North-East of England
Posts: 16,007
According to Amateur Photographer (our weekly UK photography rag):

"At ISO 100, the KP’s dynamic range result measures 12.7EV – a figure that’s higher than the 12.3EV we previously recorded on the Pentax K-70, but not quite as high as the Pentax K-1 that records 13.8EV at the same sensitivity. It manages to stay above 12EV until ISO 800, after which it drops down to a still respectable 11.4EV at ISO 1600. Results at ISO 3200, 6400 and 12,800 drop to 10.4EV, 9.3EV and 8.1EV respectively, with shadowed areas gradually getting noisier as you push towards ISO 25,600. It’s highly impressive to see the KP recording figures above 6EV right up to ISO 51,200."
09-02-2017, 01:21 PM   #4
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 702
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
According to Amateur Photographer (our weekly UK photography rag):

"At ISO 100, the KPís dynamic range result measures 12.7EV Ė a figure thatís higher than the 12.3EV we previously recorded on the Pentax K-70, but not quite as high as the Pentax K-1 that records 13.8EV at the same sensitivity. It manages to stay above 12EV until ISO 800, after which it drops down to a still respectable 11.4EV at ISO 1600. Results at ISO 3200, 6400 and 12,800 drop to 10.4EV, 9.3EV and 8.1EV respectively, with shadowed areas gradually getting noisier as you push towards ISO 25,600. Itís highly impressive to see the KP recording figures above 6EV right up to ISO 51,200."
Thanks for that. The same magazine tested the K-3ii at 12.3EV (the same as the K-70).
So Amateur Photographer has (ISO 100):
- K-1 13.8
- KP 12.7
- K-70 12.3
- K-3ii 12.3
- K-5 12+ (but can go to ISO 80 for more DR)

DxO has (ISO 100):
- K-1 14.6
- K-5iis 13.8 (14.1 @ ISO 80)
- K-3ii 13.6

09-02-2017, 01:46 PM   #5
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North-East of England
Posts: 16,007
QuoteOriginally posted by caliscouser Quote
Thanks for that. The same magazine tested the K-3ii at 12.3EV (the same as the K-70).
So Amateur Photographer has (ISO 100):
- K-1 13.8
- KP 12.7
- K-70 12.3
- K-3ii 12.3
- K-5 12+ (but can go to ISO 80 for more DR)

DxO has (ISO 100):
- K-1 14.6
- K-5iis 13.8 (14.1 @ ISO 80)
- K-3ii 13.6
Interesting. I'm inclined to believe DxO over Amateur Photographer (though I have no evidence to say why), but I'm also prepared to believe that the K-70 is broadly similar to the K-3II (I'd have guessed the K-70 would be slightly better), while the KP is a notch up...

Dynamic range aside, the noise-handling characteristics of the K-70 and KP are definitely better than their predecessors, with the KP's output looking considerably better (to my eye) than the K-70 at very high ISO settings (more colour noise, but better contrast and colour reproduction). Then again, this isn't relevant for landscape work

Last edited by BigMackCam; 09-02-2017 at 01:55 PM.
09-02-2017, 03:25 PM - 1 Like   #6
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 100
Dynamic Range

I don't believe the Amateur photographer figures. I am not sure how they are testing and calculating them. However I do understand how DXOmark is calculating them and I have an understanding how Bill Claff computes his numbers. I have used the method proposed by DSPographer (http://www.sensorgen.info/Calculations.html for those so inclined) to calculate the K5 and K3 but I haven't applied Bill's method to calculate the KP and K70. They are a bit more involved. There are a number of things to keep in mind when discussing DR. First between what levels are you measuring, particularly what is the acceptable lowest signal? And what is the ISO value (the camera value as used by the manufacturer or some calculated value) used as the independent variable (x axis)? As you can see by DXOmark some manufacturers use pretty strange ISO values. And are we talking about a DR for normalized output (like DXOmarks "Print") or DPReviews "comp" function)?

But be that as it may, to the questions asked. The K5 has the same DR as the K3II when normalized to the same output size. Non normalized DR (not accounting for the number of pixels) the K5 is about 0.7 of a stop better at about ISO 100 (measured value). I expect, but haven't computed it, that the K70 and KP would be better than the K3II by about that .7 of a stop at ISO 100 (calculated). See the file marked DPReview2 below. They'd be about where the 7200 is at abase ISO and likely better than that as ISO increases. See the file marked DPReview4 below. The KP seems to be something like the sensor used in the Sony 6300 and 6500, the electronics may be a bit better in the camera. See the file marked DPReview3 below. The noise is pretty well controlled and the KP and K70 look like they have less noise to my eye that the 6300's. If its the same sensor tech we might have the same or close to the same Full Well Saturation. So the DR would be in that same ballpark although it might be a bit better particularly as ISO increases.

All this to say is that the KP is broadly on the same performance as the Nikon 7200 and Sony 6500 (using raw only - the JPEG engines of either are better tuned than Pentax's). So much so that you'd likely not notice the difference. Would you notice the difference between the K3II and the KP? Everything equal and if you are really pushing the envelope - maybe - about the same difference in performance from say a 7100 to a 7200 which is to say pretty small (the biggest reason 7100 owners upgraded was due to banding issues which the K3, K70 and KP do not suffer from). The KP seems to test better (by the comparison photos) but other features about the K3II may be more desirable than those of the KP.

On a personal note I have a K3 and a K5. I don't feel the need to upgrade to the KP. The K3II replacement maybe. I have some lenses I want first that would make a bigger difference to my photography.
Attached Images
     
09-02-2017, 03:39 PM   #7
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Newcastle
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,954
This is a good question and I am keen to hear qualified thoughts here. I have the K5iis and have not found a reason as yet to let it go. Given I have a K-1, I contemplated selling the K3 instead. Essentially, the above thoughts were driving my thinking.
09-04-2017, 10:18 AM   #8
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,915
I have both the K-5 IIs and the KP. At this point I intend to keep both. I have found the KP to be a very impressive, high-performing camera. I've been using it most often, especially if I am likely to be facing low light situations. I like its flexibility for compactness or for a larger lens setup. Its IQ is outstanding, as is its higher ISO capability. If I will be needing the speedy control set of the K-5 IIs I do not hesitate to employ its use. It remains a very desirable, high-performing DSLR with very fine IQ. My impression is that the KP has exceptional DR, as does the K-5IIs. I don't think the KP has less, if anything more.

11-23-2017, 02:32 PM   #9
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Venlo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 103
This is an interesting question as posed by the o.p. When I bought my K5 to replace the K10D, I did a simple side-by-side field test in my garden and shot a group of flowers. White flowers came out as clipped white stains with the K10D and as flowers with rich details with the K5, same exposure, 200 ISO (extended DR). Clear difference in dynamic range in a practical situation. No shadow problems at 200 ISO.
The DR of the K5 is almost identical to the DR of the K5 IIs, according to the DxO measurements. Anyone who did a similar test as described above, to compare the KP against the K5 family? For me a clearly better DR would be the only reason to upgrade. Still very happy with the K5, don't need more pixels. Always need more DR. As a pocketable camera I sometimes carry an Olympus Stylus 1. Nice camera, good EVF, constant 2.8 over the zoom range of 28-300mm equivalent, but that DR......
11-24-2017, 03:12 AM   #10
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,854
QuoteOriginally posted by Wild Mark Quote
This is a good question and I am keen to hear qualified thoughts here. I have the K5iis and have not found a reason as yet to let it go. Given I have a K-1, I contemplated selling the K3 instead. Essentially, the above thoughts were driving my thinking.
Your K1 and K5 have roughtly the same pixel density. So they have similar reach with using the same optics. The difference being that K1 cover a wider area.

The K3 bring more reach and for some activities like macro or widlife if the lenses are good enough and the iso not too high, this bring some more details and allows for more cropping.

Many birders find their K3 better suited to the task than their K1 for example.

K3 AF as well as metering accuracy is quite improved. The K5 flash issue is fixed and PLM lenses are supported.

Finally K3 is more recent, so will be servicable for more years and will have support in softwares for longer.

But ultimately, this about what you do prefer using. I find my K3 much better than my K5 was. You obviously do not

But I am not even sure it would make for a huge difference in used prices anyway. The K5-IIs may sell for a bit less than K3 but not necessarily much less as price don't go that far bellow $200-300. For sure keeping only one make more sense as you also have a K1 but you can also make the camera you don't keep a present to somebody!

Last edited by Nicolas06; 11-24-2017 at 03:22 AM.
11-24-2017, 09:39 AM   #11
Pentaxian
MJKoski's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,722
I find KP IQ impressive and even better in PS mode (with proper processing). It is the first crop camera that compares to D3x in IQ from my own experience. In PS mode it surpasses K-1 and A7R2(3) without PS.
11-24-2017, 10:34 AM - 1 Like   #12
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,854
QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
I find KP IQ impressive and even better in PS mode (with proper processing). It is the first crop camera that compares to D3x in IQ from my own experience. In PS mode it surpasses K-1 and A7R2(3) without PS.
You can actually merge as many image as you want on any camera for improved dynamic range and signal strengh. Just take many shots of the same image and mege them in photoshop.

The problem of doing that or even pixel shift is that you need a perfectly still subject and tripod for best results. As an example I just came back from 2 week travel in Vietnam/Cambodge and no I didn't take the tripod ! So I could not have benefited of that feature at all...

One guy came with a tripod but could only take the time to set it up for the sunrise on front of Angkor Vat... For 30 minutes. For all other times, there was simply not enough time to setup each shot with a tripod...
11-24-2017, 11:09 AM   #13
Pentaxian
MJKoski's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,722
True, just explained it from my PoV. If I cannot use a tripod I will not take a camera with me. Quite funny, not, to use 4x5" setup without one.
11-26-2017, 01:27 PM - 1 Like   #14
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,854
QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
True, just explained it from my PoV. If I cannot use a tripod I will not take a camera with me. Quite funny, not, to use 4x5" setup without one.
Each to its practice but you extreme choice is not that common... And greatly restrict what shot you are actually able to take too as well as the cost. In many place a tripod is forbidden or comes with additional fees.
11-27-2017, 02:03 AM   #15
Pentaxian
MJKoski's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,722
I see it the other way around - by not taking a tripod you greatly limit your abilities what you can do with a camera. All Pentax special features for example require a tripod. SR is not Pentax only anymore.

I do not understand using Pentax bodies without one. For small size and low weight Sony FF MILC already do their job.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, k-5, k-5iis, kp, landscape, move, photography, question, range, series
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-5 vs MZ-S vs LX vs PZ-1p vs ist*D vs K10D vs K20D vs K-7 vs....... Steelski Pentax K-5 2 06-28-2017 04:59 PM
K5 vs k7 dynamic range vrrattko Pentax K-5 17 10-23-2011 06:25 AM
Lumolabs: Nikon D700 vs. D5000 vs. Pentax K-x, Dynamic range and noise falconeye Pentax News and Rumors 12 12-18-2009 05:34 AM
Lumolabs: K-x vs. K-7 and the dynamic range champion of 2009 falconeye Pentax DSLR Discussion 64 11-02-2009 04:03 AM
Cannon EOS Vs. Pentax in Dynamic Range joreed3 Photographic Technique 7 02-11-2008 03:41 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:35 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top