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08-26-2008, 10:03 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
love it. just love it.
I also am an old motorcyclist. I have a 1978 Yamaha SR500 since new (# 209 off the assembly line) and it's a big single, with kick start only. It's not easy to start, but when it does and I have the knack, developed after much experience, there's nothing quite like it when it comes to handling and low end toque.

I also have a '67 Matchless 750 Scrambler (Desert Sled). It's a 750 Norton engine shoehorned into a light Matchless frame and it's a wonderful, old bike. It's kick start only, has twin , finicky SU carbs and the Joseph Lucas (Prince of Darkness) electrics. But there's nothing quite like it.

I guess, what I'm saying motorcycles (even my Japanese Yamaha), are like Cameras or cars, or anything.

None is perfect, they all have their good points, all have their bad points.

08-26-2008, 11:23 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
enjoy
Love the dogs, thanks for sharing.

Thank you
Russell
08-26-2008, 11:40 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Have you checked prices lately? Rhetorical question, you obviously haven't, or you wouldn't have posted such tripe.
In my market, a K20 is around $1100.00, a D300 is around $1750.00. Is the D300 more money? Absolutely, it's half again as much.
It's the cost of a 35mm LTD lens more money.
But it's not four times as much, it just feels like it gives that much more performance.
And it's not out of Pentax's reach to do it, and frankly, with the quality of glass they have in the market right now, they are stupid to not have a camera in the same performance class.
bingo. the elephant in the room has been called out finally. let's see if we can get some actual useful dialogue from this.
08-26-2008, 11:46 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Pentax has always done things a little differently. They've never seriously tried to go head-to-head with Nikon and Canon for the "pro" market. They've mostly done what they're doing now...offer cameras that compete in image quality and price moreso than in overall features. That's what their 35mm cameras did and that's what their medium format cameras did. Pentax WAS a major player in the pro field, but it was in the medium format arena. The pros they went after were landscape shooters and studio photographers. Of all the camera manufacturers, Pentax was the only one who was able to compete in 35mm AND medium format, but in neither field were they ever the fastest or the camera with the most features.



I'm hoping you can do both because if you're short-changing your kid's education for the sake of a more expensive p&s camera, that's a bad choice.
...the education fund part was a joke, but anyways.

my point again, which someone else already brought up here, is that it's achievable for pentax to add the feature. you don't have to go into the "pro" world, just add some of those features. faster "SDM" lenses aren't a biggie, faster total AF acquisition is not a biggie...adding a more accurate or tuned light meter and adding a real focus assist is not a biggie. I'm not asking for an FX sensor, just some simple stuff that would make a HUGE difference. and people will pay for it.

that, my friend, is the sad part.

08-26-2008, 11:55 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I'd just like a "better" Pentax is all. The K20 is pretty good, and with a few technological upgrades, it could be excellent.
I don't see a problem with this.
But, when I am standing beside a photographer using a D300, and he is getting pictures and I am missing pictures, and when we trade cameras, I am getting pictures, and he is missing them, then I am going to look at what I am using and ask for something better from the people who made it.
Alot of people on this forum have a problem facing these facts. Many of them are just followers and do what PENTAX does. It is loyal and reflective users like yourself that can offer REAL feedback that can make PENTAX better. I'm sick of hearing about crapola E60 and M60 junk being released. You make an exceptional pro/mid/higher end camera and the P&S buyers will follow your reputation. See Nikon and Canon with Panasonic as an exception. Pany actually makes a good P&S.

Keep posting...you'll do good if a PENTAX product guy actually comes across your posts.
08-26-2008, 01:41 PM   #141
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Does anybody here design anything for a living? Or have any idea about balancing the amount of capitol between the number of projects controlling keeping up existing models and research and development into new models and features?

I lose track of all the customer's that want the world tomorrow at no addition per unit cost to them. Too many companies have crashed and burned in no time through poor choices in investment vs return gained or spreading it to thin too fast.

I don't see what is wrong with a company trying to gain a foothold in making a high quality mid range product which contains features its peers in that price market are not offering. It's a smart first step.

No doubt Pentax would love to pull pro equipment out of thier behinds while maintianing everything else. In reality its not an easy task. Buisness growth takes smart steps and a good amount of luck. Don't you think Pentax realizes that people who go pure pro have to switch companies? Or that they have would have loved to up the frame rate but chose it wiser to add other features at the price point?

Why, because people are happy with their product are they blind fanboy blah blah blahs? It does what they want it to do? At a price they were happy with? What is gained from the "e-superiority" of posting the obvious and returning to post after switching to another make? Leave your wish list and move on. Or if your knowledge is so valuable get some consulting money from Pentax for your revelations. Its not like you were sold defective equipment of sold on false frame rate/specs etc.

I guess I am off to check the next forum for posts from people about a money-rich company they bought something from and felt the need to come back again and bitch about a not so cash flush company not putting out the same amount of product.
08-26-2008, 02:36 PM   #142
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The best thing about old lenses

is that lovely rose tinted glow. Sadly I have seen a lot of "old legends" fall apart when presented with a digital sensor and some objective testing (my 31 ltd is great stopped down but the purple fringing wide open is amazing) but who cares about that? How on earth would you prove your wager one way or the other?

If you are pissed at Pentax for "letting you down" then you have a strange attitude to companies and businesses. At some time they all let you down. It ain't personal even if it IS annoying. I had a lovely collection of manual FD glass and yes a lot of it was very good quality by the standards of the day so when my A1 broke I was upset and bought a Nikon F601 in a fit of pique. Despite my righteous indignation (and that of many other Canon users) and the huge strop I threw at the unfortunate salesman, Canon went on to do quite well I seem to remember. The Nikon was a pile of cr*p on the other hand.

Since then I never cared what was written on the camera, but I do believe the K20D is the best camera for my use right now and I simply dont recognise most of your "friends" issues. I am happily printing stunning A3+ prints and they have all the right colours and just the right exposure.

Where we seem to differ is in what I would do if I wasn't happy. Probably if I shot sport or birds for a living or as a passion I would not be so happy, but then I can't think of a single Pentax body that would have ever solved that problem so I am sure I would never have bought a Pentax in the first place.

And if they do bring out a model above the K20D, which I am certain they will, it will almost certainly be aimed at the D300 and 50D. In which case, it will probably have a bigger buffer and a new AF module.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Most of my lenses are manual focus, but that is an old picture.......
I also shoot dog sports and other fast moving subjects that give the K20 some problems with keeping up.
When i say the best glass in the world, I am speaking of the entire line. I realize that there will be individual lenses out there from other makers that can out resolve my Pentax glass, but I'll wager that Pentax glass is overall better.
I think we are in agreement on this point.
You can keep your Hassy, when I want real quality, I still have a Pentax 6x7 and a Tachihara 4x5.
With regard to frame rates, I am more interested in the responsiveness that high framerates gives rather than the high speed capture. When film cameras shot at 3fps, we weren't waiting several seconds for the buffer to clear so we could review are pictures. The world has moved on from those days.
08-26-2008, 03:01 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
is that lovely rose tinted glow. Sadly I have seen a lot of "old legends" fall apart when presented with a digital sensor and some objective testing (my 31 ltd is great stopped down but the purple fringing wide open is amazing) but who cares about that? .
Hmmpff. My experience is the oposite (my 31 Limited is absolutely brilliant on digital). The most purple (and green!) fringing lens I've seen is the "digital ready" DA* 16-50/2.8 lens.

08-26-2008, 05:32 PM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Hmmpff. My experience is the oposite (my 31 Limited is absolutely brilliant on digital). The most purple (and green!) fringing lens I've seen is the "digital ready" DA* 16-50/2.8 lens.
I don't have a 16-50, so I can't concur, but I haven't a clue what Steve is complaining about with the 31. Mine has never shown a hint of fringing, except in those rare instances where I do something stupid and shoot a tree branch in shade against a blown out sky, and that is, likely as not, a sensor problem, not a lens problem..

Note to Steve, I know a few people who are still angry enough at Canon regarding the orphaning of the FD mount that they will never buy another Canon product. These are people who trusted them to support the mount in return for several thousands of dollars in lens purchases, only to have the mount completely orphaned an unsupported.
Canon may have gambled and won, but they hurt a lot of people in the process.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 08-26-2008 at 06:34 PM. Reason: spelling
08-26-2008, 07:07 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
You haven't got a freaking clue about what you are talking about, so you just revert to the personal attacks typical of mindless fanboys.
Anyway, keep being happy that you get to play in the shallow end of the pool. Eventually, you may grow up and realize that there are a lot of opportunities you are missing because you think that a paddling pool is the best that there is.
Someone may have pointed this out already, but you telling someone they are "reverting to personal attacks typical of a mindless fanboy" seems to me like you are the one doing exactly that.

I do agree with you, I would like to see Pentax put out a pro level camera sure. I wouldn't buy it, I couldn't justify the price, because the camera wouldn't really have anything I need, and it would probably be FF, so I'd have to buy new glass for it.

9fps is just helping average photographers get a good shot once in a while. If you rely on 9fps to get "the" shot, I would gather you could probably study your subject more and get better at it firing off one or two at the right moment instead.
It's certainly not something I would label a necessity in any shooting situation. (Super-fast AF would be higher on my priority for getting a sharp action shot)

But there are a lot to do with taking pictures other than speed, which I think people obsessed with such specs miss. Image quality, ease of use, customizations, lens quality, and bokeh of particular lenses, just to name a few.

Frames per second is minor if you look at the number of pictures taken anywhere/everywhere. If you shoot racing or sports, then maybe you want it, maybe you even think you need it. But I daresay it's nice on paper but most people don't need it.

Last edited by khardur; 08-26-2008 at 07:16 PM.
08-26-2008, 07:26 PM   #146
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I shot many racing pictures in the 80's, 90's up til last year with my trusty ME Super and my little Kodak Digital P&S. Higher fps would be nice but not a necessity. With the ME Super I learned to anticipate the action out of necessity and learn to crank the winder rather quickly. I can wait till Pole Day next May at Indy to really give my K200D a workout.

Last edited by kkoether; 08-26-2008 at 07:27 PM. Reason: mispelling
08-26-2008, 07:29 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
. . .
Note to Steve, I know a few people who are still angry enough at Canon regarding the orphaning of the FD mount that they will never buy another Canon product. These are people who trusted them to support the mount in return for several thousands of dollars in lens purchases, only to have the mount completely orphaned an unsupported.
Canon may have gambled and won, but they hurt a lot of people in the process.
Canon did support the FD to EOS (EF) for about 1.5 years. The various adapters were produced in limited numbers and were very expensive. The macros took a special adapter and certain other lens took another etc. I have the Canon FD macro adapter. The only reason I haven't sold it is its a monument to Canon.
08-27-2008, 12:51 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by khardur Quote
Someone may have pointed this out already, but you telling someone they are "reverting to personal attacks typical of a mindless fanboy" seems to me like you are the one doing exactly that.
I guess you missed the other thread...I did too until it was locked, shame :ugh:
QuoteOriginally posted by khardur:
9fps is just helping average photographers get a good shot once in a while. If you rely on 9fps to get "the" shot, I would gather you could probably study your subject more and get better at it firing off one or two at the right moment instead.
It's certainly not something I would label a necessity in any shooting situation. (Super-fast AF would be higher on my priority for getting a sharp action shot)
When I was at Road America a couple weeks ago, I sat next to a guy with a 40D and 100-400L. A guy down in front had the same but with a 55-200IS.

They were clickclickclickclickclicking away, and taking the same shots as I was, clicking in lonely old single shot mode. My FA 80-320 was prefocused (with manual mode I might add), with my left eye open to see the cars come into the corner.

Did I miss a couple shots? Probably. Did I catch some good ones? Oh, yeah Little old single mode, AF lens MF'ed...battle for 2nd in GT2.

Flyover by A10...AF, panning (hand held), FA 80-320, single mode...this guy was hauling ass about 200ft off the ground. First picture I've taken of a plane, this low Kind of blurry cause I had to zoom OUT...wow, he was close and movin...

I love LeMans Edit: (Please don't mind the random Zooomr account. Still trying to decide if I want to pay Flickr or smugmug to show my pix.)

I have a camera. I have stuff for it. I make them work together. I like the piktchures it captures. I used to have a Canon. I gave it almost a year. It wouldn't cooperate. Nikons don't feel right. Sonys are plain weird. Pentax works for me. Simple.

By the way, I use M like 99% of the time, Av the other 1% I have 2 Pentax lenses, 1 P SLR, 1 DLSR, and I use an SB-24 on the K10D!!!!! Oh, the travesty Please, can someone call me a fanboy?

Last edited by ryan s; 08-27-2008 at 12:58 AM.
08-27-2008, 05:44 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by solarisdreams Quote
...the education fund part was a joke, but anyways.

my point again, which someone else already brought up here, is that it's achievable for pentax to add the feature. you don't have to go into the "pro" world, just add some of those features. faster "SDM" lenses aren't a biggie, faster total AF acquisition is not a biggie...adding a more accurate or tuned light meter and adding a real focus assist is not a biggie. I'm not asking for an FX sensor, just some simple stuff that would make a HUGE difference. and people will pay for it.

that, my friend, is the sad part.
I'm glad to know you were joking about the education fund. However, the thing that worries me about threads like these is that it's NOT a joke for some people. They really are taking money away from household needs in order to fund their hobby.
08-27-2008, 06:24 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by khardur Quote
Someone may have pointed this out already, but you telling someone they are "reverting to personal attacks typical of a mindless fanboy" seems to me like you are the one doing exactly that.
You are correct. I lowered the bar by answering back in kind.
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