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08-27-2008, 03:45 PM   #166
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What would it weigh?????

QuoteOriginally posted by straightshooter Quote
I think we just came up with the new design and ad campaign for Pentax. EMP shielding and autofocus/autotargeting lenses with built in mini Nikon seeking rocket launchers. ROFLMAO

CW
Could you imagine the tripod and strap that you'd need!

08-27-2008, 05:50 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by solarisdreams Quote
Alot of people on this forum have a problem facing these facts. Many of them are just followers and do what PENTAX does.
Because most are happy with what Pentax does and only some may find that they aren't, but that means they need to change their *whole* system, this is why they follow and what Pentax does. Most understand that Pentax is a small player and with small player resources.

QuoteQuote:
It is loyal and reflective users like yourself that can offer REAL feedback that can make PENTAX better. I'm sick of hearing about crapola E60 and M60 junk being released. You make an exceptional pro/mid/higher end camera and the P&S buyers will follow your reputation. See Nikon and Canon with Panasonic as an exception. Pany actually makes a good P&S.

Keep posting...you'll do good if a PENTAX product guy actually comes across your posts.
The problem is that Pentax are meeting the needs of a certain market, but you want them to meet the needs of the *whole* market, or at least most of it, and that is not what Pentax is all about, at the moment, due to their limited resources.

I think that if you feel you know more than Pentax that *you* go and work for their marketing department and *tell* them exactly where they are going wrong. Then they can say that all your requests are fine *except* that they do not have the resources to carry out your "world beating" ideas.

You seem to think that Pentax marketers don't know what they are doing, but reality is it that it has more to do with working with what they have at the moment, ie the financial and physical means to accomplish their objectives. It is fine to go on attacking them for the features that they do not provide, but I guarantee it is not the fact that they do not want to include these better features, but that they do not have the capacity to do it at the moment.

Do you really think that Pentax would *not* want to have a camera that has 10fps, FF, in camera SR that allows 5 stops of handholdability, lowest high ISO noise, AF that is the fastest in the business no matter the light level etc, etc? If you think that they wouldn't then I think that you should definitely move on and stop posting here as it serves no purpose. The fact is, they have to work with the fascilities and the financial resources they have.

Your rants on this forum seem to be more about thinking that you are espousing your knowledge and wanting to argue the toss rather than any real constructive discussion as it matters nout what you, or I for that matter, think as Pentax *has* to do what it can with the resources it has. Pentax is *not* Canon or Nikon and has a microscopic amount of resources in comparison. Hoya may address this, but it takes *time*. So, don't *think* you know better than Pentax and their engineers and marketers as you don't and if you want to score points in this discussion, neither do I.

The fact is, Pentax is doing remarkably well with all the above considered. In the K20D they have a camera that delivers image quality as good as the others and does things that suit *most*. Once they get their physical and financial resources in order, they will be a camera company to be reckoned with.
08-27-2008, 09:11 PM   #168
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Been there, done that...

I used to have a Nikon D50, but switched to Pentax, and I will never go back. I was thinking of upgrading to a better Nikon, but issues around exposure, and the weird Nikon mentality and practice of limiting functionality of their equipment totally turned me off (I'm talking about not being able to use auto-focus on their non-digital auto-focus lenses, or the inability to use metering on manual-focus lenses, etc.), not to mention the hefty price-tags! Pentax hasn't compromised in these regards, plus packed the camera with excellent features (including IN-CAMERA SHAKE REDUCTION!), and incredible glass and coatings. This all adds up to MUCH MORE FUN and excellent images. Pentax rocks. I am glad I can own one.
08-27-2008, 10:06 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lance B Quote
So, don't *think* you know better than Pentax and their engineers and marketers as you don't
the history how AF adjustments were implemented for us, customers, to use in a legit way in K20D shows that Pentax and their engineers do not know better... they (actually we) just got lucky that Ned B. managed to push that through.

08-27-2008, 10:21 PM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
the history how AF adjustments were implemented for us, customers, to use in a legit way in K20D shows that Pentax and their engineers do not know better... they (actually we) just got lucky that Ned B. managed to push that through.
Well, actually they do. Ned B *is* part of Pentax and part of Pentax's marketing and therefore Pentax *did* know better and made sure that this feature was pushed through due to the very fact that Ned does work for them. *If* you care to read my post correctly *and* the part you quoted, you will see that I said: "Pentax and their engineers and marketers ", so I fail to see where you think this didn't work for Pentax. I mean, the whole *idea* of having Ned as part of the Pentax team is for this *very scenario*.

Now, having said that, do *you* really believe that if they hadn't implemented it in the K20D that Pentax wouldn't have done so in a consequent model especially considering that there are many people like Ned B that are working for Pentax and that Canon have also added this feature to a lower end model?
08-28-2008, 03:32 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The world has changed, perhaps you haven't noticed.
No - I only run multiple corporate companies - all linked via Terminal Server
have consultants with state of the art laptops connected to central servers via 3g hsdpa and that can also be accessed by cellphone to retrieve database data and Excel spreadsheets.

All items in office wifi and bluetooth connected - linkages to Satallite feeds.

All cellphones have GPS, 5mp cameras as well.

I have combat weapons with lazer sights, night vision et al

In fact I love technology and am in fact quite a geek about it - so before you make a condescending remark to a member - just do a little homework first

AND I wouldn't be using a K10D if I didn't like technological improvements

d
08-28-2008, 03:38 AM   #172
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Enough technological masturbation.
08-28-2008, 05:49 AM   #173
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This sort of comparison is like saying Mercedes is crap because a Rolls is just better and that people shouldn't buy anything but a Rolls.

I wonder why this guy doesn't just leave us alone with our second rate cameras.

08-28-2008, 06:50 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Deni Quote
This sort of comparison is like saying Mercedes is crap because a Rolls is just better and that people shouldn't buy anything but a Rolls.

I wonder why this guy doesn't just leave us alone with our second rate cameras.
There is nothing wrong with such discussions as long as people respect each other. What p*****s me off with that guy is his attitude with other members of this forum. It's like we're all idiots and he is God gift to mankind. Wonder who p**sed in his Corn Flakes?
08-28-2008, 07:03 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lance B Quote
Well, actually they do. Ned B *is* part of Pentax and part of Pentax's marketing and therefore Pentax *did* know better and made sure that this feature was pushed through due to the very fact that Ned does work for them. *If* you care to read my post correctly *and* the part you quoted, you will see that I said: "Pentax and their engineers and marketers ", so I fail to see where you think this didn't work for Pentax. I mean, the whole *idea* of having Ned as part of the Pentax team is for this *very scenario*.
Ned B. pushed this against the rest of the crowd there, so do _NOT_ put "=" between him and Pentax...

QuoteOriginally posted by Lance B Quote
Now, having said that, do *you* really believe that if they hadn't implemented it in the K20D that Pentax wouldn't have done so in a consequent model especially considering that there are many people like Ned B that are working for Pentax and that Canon have also added this feature to a lower end model?
that is just your guess... the truth is (as told by Ned) that it was much done against the wishes of the company, only because of his personal efforts...
08-28-2008, 08:03 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
Ned B. pushed this against the rest of the crowd there, so do _NOT_ put "=" between him and Pentax...
What?

First of all, we do not know if Ned and 100 others pushed for this against 200 others, of if Ned was the sole voice asking for this.

Secondly, it is simply part of the job of the marketing folks to specify how the product should be placed in the marketplace and that means the feature set it has versus the competition and also versus the selling price.

Marketing ALWAYS has this tug of war with engineering.

What Ned did in this case, was simply his job as an employee of PENTAX/HOYA, and at the end of the day, the cameras has the feature, and the last time I looked, the camera had PENTAX on the front.

For all we know, there were 2 dozen other features Ned argued for, or not. If the feature is in the camera, then at the end of the day, the company felt it should be there, otherwise it would not be there. Simple really.

QuoteQuote:
that is just your guess... the truth is (as told by Ned) that it was much done against the wishes of the company, only because of his personal efforts...
So what? That is his job.

The company likely felt that the risk would be that many moron users would screw up their cameras resulting in increased warranty claims, and for all we know this has happened.

Regardless, NED WORKS FOR PENTAX, and the feature was designed into the camera that Pentax builds and sells.

It's not like Ned wrote the code or invented a patented widget himself after all.

Some people just amaze me. Now when Pentax offers a a very high end feature not offered on any model at this price level, it is somehow a negative thing because the marketing guy had to convince the engineering folks (and maybe the service folks and the bean counters) to put it in.

Ray

Last edited by Ray Pulley; 08-28-2008 at 08:18 AM.
08-28-2008, 08:12 AM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
It's not like Ned wrote the code or invented a patented widget himself after all.
He was just the only one who cared to listen what customers are complaining about... And it was only because we did complain - not because Pentax all of a sudden decided to implement that by itself

QuoteQuote:
Fact is the discussions about the de-bug mode actually allowed us to
convince our engineers to make this a feature in the K20D, so you see
how feedback and listening to the needs of our customers actually can
work.
He writes "us" - but it is clear that honor goes to him...
08-28-2008, 08:19 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
Now when Pentax offers a a very high end feature not offered on any model at this price level
who cares about the price level - that feature belongs to the top model from each manufacturer regardless of the price.
08-28-2008, 08:30 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
He was just the only one who cared to listen what customers are complaining about... And it was only because we did complain - not because Pentax all of a sudden decided to implement that by itself
You have no idea if that is true or not, but what difference does that make? Pentax hires marketing folks, and their job is to do just exactly what Ned did.

GASP! How terrible, the Pentax marketing guy convinced the engineering folks to add a feature that we all LOVE.

Surely it would have been better to leave it out so that people like you could complain even more. Oh, that's right, you are complaining anyway because marketing had to sell the enfineering and management folks on the worth of the feature in the marketplace.

Can't you see how ridiculous you sound?

Clearly, the CaNikon marketing folks do not listen to the customers or are not as effective as Ned in steering engineering or they would have this pro feature on semi-pro cameras, right?

That makes Pentax pretty smart, doesn't it?

I really think you haven't a clue what you are talking about, as this sort of marketing/engineering/bean counting tussle over feature sets happens on every product. It is simply how the process works.

Sales and Marketing always want everything and think it is free, that it will have no possible negative impact of any kind on release schedules, no impact on cost of goods, performance (like speed), and that it should be a piece of cake to implement.

The features/cost/performance/and schedule must all be balanced as best is possible, all things considered.



QuoteQuote:
He writes "us" - but it is clear that honor goes to him...
I have no idea what you are going on about here.

Ray
08-28-2008, 09:05 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote



I have no idea what you are going on about here.

Ray
yes, certainly you do not have an idea because I was replying to Lance B ("...So, don't *think* you know better than Pentax and their engineers and marketers.." - note how Pentax and engineers going first in his posting) that we got AF adjustments in K20D only because we (customers) complained strong enough and only because we were lucky that Ned B decided to try to advocate for us, but that was/is his personal virtue - not virtue of the company he works for
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