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08-23-2008, 09:38 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Ridiculous? No, it isn't. If I walk into a camera store and ask to see the best that Pentax, Nikon and Canon make, I am going to be making that comparison.
Or worse, I walk into a camera store, look at the k20 and it's direct competitors, and then get told that this is the best Pentax does, but it's direct competition is 2 or 3 tiers downs from the best that Canon or Nikon can do.
This isn't going to instill a lot of confidence in Pentax for most buyers.

It's unavoidable that these types of comparisons will be made until the best that Pentax makes gets better.
First of all, I don't trust any camera store that Jack Simpson doesn't work in. They should tell you "here's the best Pentax and it costs $1100. Here's the best Nikon and it costs $5000." The best Toyota on the lot costs a lot less than the best Mercedes on the lot, yet they are both successful, and good cars. It's the same with cameras, unless the customers are idiots (and some are).

08-23-2008, 09:42 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Ridiculous? No, it isn't. If I walk into a camera store and ask to see the best that Pentax, Nikon and Canon make, I am going to be making that comparison.
If you know enough to make that request at a camera store, you are also going to be comparing price tags and, unless you are rich and don't care about money or a working photographer with a big budget or just plain clueless, you're probably going to go with the less expensive alternative of the three brands.

CW
08-24-2008, 01:58 AM   #48
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Well I for one have decided to leave Pentax in favor of this wonderful new Nikon....
Nikon D90 Specifications Revealed
If anyone else is interested, perhaps a group buy is in order.
08-24-2008, 02:58 AM   #49
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everyday people leave pentax for every other brand... everyday people leave every other brand for pentax...

everyday people haver drunk to much and forgottent the point of theior post


Last edited by philmorley; 08-24-2008 at 03:09 AM.
08-24-2008, 04:16 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Well apparently since this is a Pentax forum enough people realise that such comparisons are meaningless and bought a Pentax anyway.

Why are you here? Did you just think you should sign up to remind us all how stupid we are to buy a second rate product from a second rate company?

Sounds like it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Lance B Quote
Succinctly put, mate.
QuoteOriginally posted by Lance B Quote
What a load of bollocks. I think this guy is just saying all this to justify his (pricey) outlay on his Nikon gear. Sounds like technology and gear envy to me.
I think your earlier quote (above) was the most succinct!
08-24-2008, 08:50 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
Well apparently since this is a Pentax forum enough people realise that such comparisons are meaningless and bought a Pentax anyway.

Why are you here? Did you just think you should sign up to remind us all how stupid we are to buy a second rate product from a second rate company?

Sounds like it.
If that's how you see yourselves, I'm not going to argue.

For myself, I'd just like to see them build a camera that can play in the same sandbox as the big boys good cameras.
08-24-2008, 08:51 AM   #52
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QuoteQuote:
Review? The review speed of the K20D is basically instantaneous anyway. What does he want, a review *before* he takes the photo now? I think some people have their hand on it too much.
I can do that with my K10D. Just set the menu for the DOF lever to show an electronic preview!
08-24-2008, 09:16 AM   #53
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Hey didn't I do this thread three weeks ago?

08-24-2008, 09:46 AM   #54
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I think what we witness here is a natural progress and after 2 very good "advanced-amateur" bodies it's about time for Pentax to bring its first modern "semi-pro" camera both for some people who use Pentax and find themselfs hindered by some features (or lack of) and for new users/switchers from other systems that want to "defect" to us. We're starting to get a very honnorable line up of modern lenses, probably we'll get a v2 of the 14,6 Mp sensor + a new image pipeline that will extract even more DR (@ all ISO please!) and will better noise (also @ all ISO) than the current one. The rest of the improvements are to be seen but I hope that Pentax will produce a trully innovative and well rounded camera with as few compromises as possible.

We're in the final month before Photokina so the real and fiction will be soon set appart and I guess Pentax will hold a press conference some time before so the time is even nearer.

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08-24-2008, 10:02 AM   #55
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The top of the line Canon costs about $ 5000 plus, maybe $ 8000. Not sure of the exact price, someone could correct me, but in the end it's very expensive. I don't have the price at my finger tips, because I'm not a top pro and therefore it is just of academic interest.

It's designed and built for true professionals who may use it in grueling situations. The number of heavily built, extremely expensive Canon lenses far outdistances every other camera manufacturer. No one, not even Nikon is in the same league.
Canon has a piece of fast glass for every conceivable situation.

Can you imagine how expensive this is, for a company to have such a tremendous array of equipment for a relatively small market...the professional market. that other camera companies could afford to go head to head in an uphill battle against a large camera company already deeply entrenched in the small pro market ?

In other words, it ain't gonna happen that Pentax, or Sony or Olympus will be able to afford to bring out a camera that matches the top of the lone Canon.

Nikon barely plays in the same sandbox as Canon.

And, why would they ? Makes no market sense .

In fact, check out the next Sports Illustrated picture where they show a mob of professional photogs taking pictures at, say an NFL game. Invariably....Canon.

Nikon used to be the top pro camera, but that hasn't been the case for years. Even still Nikon is still in there fighting, by bringing out pro cameras, in an effort to regain some of the pro market. But I don't think they have a competitive number of lenses and accessories to really compete with Canon.

So the K10D, K20D, the top Olympus, top Sony are truly excellent cameras that more than do the job for the advanced amateur or those dabbling a bit as a pro, or those who are pro's but don't need Canon's vast array of lenses and other equipment.

If you're in this group the K20D will do the job.

So if you are a top Pro photographer and I have no way of knowing, then bite the bullet and get the top Canon.
08-24-2008, 10:12 AM   #56
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I personally don't like using the upper end Canon equipment. It is excellent glass, but it creates problems when my gear gets smashed when I'm out photographing were wolves in London.
08-24-2008, 10:42 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I personally don't like using the upper end Canon equipment. It is excellent glass, but it creates problems when my gear gets smashed when I'm out photographing were wolves in London.
If your photographing werewolves in London, it would have to be during the night, when werewolves prowl.

When your on the run, a tripod and timed shutter release is no good, so you need fast telephoto glass and Canon is the best game in town. But you also need Shake Reduction, high ISO and this is where a K20D would be the camera of choice.

Get a custom converter...Canon lens to K20D body is your answer I would say.

Oh also a silver bullet and a cross are good accessories.
08-24-2008, 11:00 AM   #58
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I've gone the dark side...

fyi, i have been blessed with a K20d, DA* 16-50, 10month baby, and a dog (among other things). The camera combo kills me when trying to capture pretty much anything that likes to move around lots. I have to say after 5 days of reading and 3 weeks of shooting, the AF (body) and SDM (lens) make for a not-very-desirable hit/miss ratio in terms of pictures in focus.

Call it my lack of technique, call it superior/inferior gear. I'm not here to say either way. But I just wanted you and most importantly PENTAX to know that I just tried the D300 today and it walks all over the K20d. Ofcourse, this is only with MY shooting technique which is pretty much point and shoot. Yes, I can fiddle around with the settings, but at the end of the day, I want the camera to operate in FULL auto when set to auto. No tweeking, just give me the darn image as best as the gear can do it.

Originally, I bought the Pentax setup because the total price was excellent and the reviews everywhere told me that the image quality is great. And after owning the camera, I do agree. The caveat is that you have to capture the image with the subject in focus. (duh right?) And that, my friends is why the D300 will be my next purchase. Yes, it's a more expensive camera but c'mon....PENTAX: Give me your K-whatever-D that can match the OVERALL performance as a mid-highend Nikon and I will buy it. EVEN IF YOU CHARGE MORE. Why? Because you make good lenses and they are priced very well. Same thing goes for SDM...license Nikon's AS-F or whatever..give me something that's fast + all your other current goodies and I'm there. The micro motor speed on this DA* lens just well....sucks.

Final note/gripe. I have no idea what PENTAX does not make a KILLER FF or DX camera. Yes, K20d is great for the price but like the PENTAX west coast rep told me before, companies don't make money on bodies. The bread and butter is in the glass. So...since your glass is so well priced, why not make a beat-all body so you can sell more glass? Hopefully they are working on that for announcement in early '09. Otherwise, I can't see pentax shaking off the "pentax is for geezers and i'm cheap fanboys" image. Like I said earlier...I would gladly pay double the k20d for a near d700 performance (don't care about live view or 3" screen) and spend the rest of the difference (between a proper D700 setup) and buy a whole lot of pentax glass since it's so (relatively) inexpensive.

end gripe. sorry if I bored you...just a little frustrated with pentax's direction - no wonder they lost money in this biz.

disclaimer, whether you believe it or not: k20d is my first D-slr. have tried the D3, D300, D700. Never tried a Canon SLR in my entire life. I've had 2 minolta film slrs before this. Some p&s - barely worth mentioning. Been shooting total of 12 years.
08-24-2008, 12:04 PM   #59
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I take pictures of flying Pelicans and they move as fast or faster than kids or dogs and it works out. I put the K10D on continuous focus and the meter on spot and aim for the eyes as the area of focus. I also change the ISO from 100 to 400...still sharp at this speed and it gives me extra speed for fast moving subjects.

I'm also using a big, long lens the 55-300 Pentax which Pop Photog rated very well in their latest issue and believe me trying to focus with a heavy camera, long lens on unpredictable - turn here - turn there- Pelicans is not easy.

Any camera that is as sophisticated as the Nikon D300 or the Pentax K10/20D is going to require set up.

I didn't want to do it, either, but my initial pictures weren't up to my expectations, until I sat down and followed the manual, section by section and adjusted the camera settings. I'm a lot happier now and I actually am glad that I did...the potential for the K10D or K20D is almost limitless. The same would apply to the D300...this is no point and shooter.

They're not designed primarily as point and shooters.
08-24-2008, 12:17 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
If your photographing werewolves in London, it would have to be during the night, when werewolves prowl.
Its easier of you sneak up on them in Soho with a Chinese menu in their hand.
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