[TaoMaas]

Pentax is not stupid, they just choose not to step foot in the big 2's playing field because they are too scared to be annihilated.

Pentax has always done things a little differently. They've never seriously tried to go head-to-head with Nikon and Canon for the "pro" market. They've mostly done what they're doing now...offer cameras that compete in image quality and price moreso than in overall features. That's what their 35mm cameras did and that's what their medium format cameras did. Pentax WAS a major player in the pro field, but it was in the medium format arena. The pros they went after were landscape shooters and studio photographers. Of all the camera manufacturers, Pentax was the only one who was able to compete in 35mm AND medium format, but in neither field were they ever the fastest or the camera with the most features.

I DO wish I was able to keep the pentax setup and put the other 1500-2000 bucks in education fund for my kid. but oh well...

I'm hoping you can do both because if you're short-changing your kid's education for the sake of a more expensive p&s camera, that's a bad choice.

[philmorley]

because I need an SLR with all the customizations and lens options that come with it. however, there are always times where I don't want to fiddle around with stuff and just turn the camera on, point and shoot. if i have my slr with me which is frequently, I'd like to be able to do just that. and because pentax has an auto mode...so why not make it work like... ...auto? (duh)

sorry I got the mistaken impression you were looking for something to always use on auto. (I know 2 people with dslrs who never take them off auto setting, I asked them a couple of months ago why they have dslrs, 1 said always had an slr so have to have a dslr, the other said he didnt know and bought a p&s a week later (and is happier for it).

anyway my mistake.
Phil

[Torrentes]

I agree completely. I am tired of hearing complaints that the K10D or K20D isn't as good as certain Nikon or Canon bodies that are three times the price. I'm sure Pentax is capable of producing $5000 camera bodies if they could turn a profit doing so. If I had thousands of dollars burning a hole in my pocket I might own one of those high end cameras but I don't. I do have a very good camera that has shake reduction, weather resistant body and excellent lenses at decent prices.

I absolutly agree with you. If we were taking about cars, it seems to me like if Wheatfield was comparing a Mercedes 600 S (120000 €) Vs Alfa Romeo 159 (30000 €) or something like this. It doesn't make sense because it isn't the same market segment.

[Wheatfield]

So many lenses... you must be a collector.
How about posting some nice pictures from those lovely lenses?

Bill's Pictures
Jester's Index Page (dog lovers page)
Rollei (not art, just my late great dog, click the pictures to advance through the gallery)
Melissa

enjoy

[Wheatfield]

It wasn't all that long ago, sports photographers had to use a MF lens.



I guess it depends on which Ford you are talking about. A GT, Mustang GT, Mustang Saleen, or Perhaps a bona fide Cobra, and a Beamer will be going backwards in the mirror.

Have you looked at how much sports photography has changed over the past couple of decades?

I owned a Beemer once. A 530i.
My one and only foray into European cars. It wasn't a happy one, the darned thing caught fire while I was driving one day.
But that's another story..

[Wheatfield]

For some reason, you appear to be a very bitter person. If you don't want to "read how predictable it is", then why do you stay here and post? Personally, I don't care what anyone shoots. I am a proud newbie that owns the K100D. And it suits me just fine.

I'm a working photographer with about 35 years in the trade, and no, I'm not bitter about anything (well, I'd like to have the body of a 20 year old again, but I can't find a girl that young who'll let me). I've learned a few things here, I think I've been of some assistance to other photographers here.
Honestly, I quite like the K20, and I quite like the K10, and for all it's quirkiness and all ahead dead slow performance, I quite like the *istD. I love my 3 LX, and I am quite infatuated with my MX and my ME supers.
But, I am intelligent enough to recognize their failings. The LX was prone to a plethora of problems, all three of mine have been in and out of the shop on a regular basis.
Sticky mirror, oxidized aperture cam follower resistors, oxidized ISO resistors, all caused multiple repairs. Add to that the useless TTL flash control on the LX, and it's a wonder I even like the thing. But, like my old Triumph Trident, which required more maintenance than an 18 year old mistress, when it works, there is nothing like it.
My 6x7 rocks, and I love all of the lenses that I own as well.
Oh yes, the lenses.
The lenses have always been the best part of owning Pentax. Camera come and go (sometimes into the shop....), but good lenses are a lifetime investment.
This is one place where Pentax has done an admirable job. They are the only company that has maintained a level of backwards compatibility that allows 4 decade old lenses to function without optical adaptors (Nikon excepted, but you have to shell out for their top end camera, and you may need AI mods to get metering, IIRC).
Canon or Minolta can't say that. I don't think Leica can say that with the R series (something about aperture cams not meshing).
I'd just like a "better" Pentax is all. The K20 is pretty good, and with a few technological upgrades, it could be excellent.
I don't see a problem with this.
But, when I am standing beside a photographer using a D300, and he is getting pictures and I am missing pictures, and when we trade cameras, I am getting pictures, and he is missing them, then I am going to look at what I am using and ask for something better from the people who made it.
If Pentax monitors this forum, then a few consumer complaints in this regard might light a fire under them, and perhaps even get them to shelve the next el cheapo camera that is rumored for next release, and introduce a camera for a working photographer instead.
It's a dream I have.

[séamuis]

But, like my old Triumph Trident, which required more maintenance than an 18 year old mistress, when it works, there is nothing like it.

love it. just love it.

[Wheatfield]

I absolutly agree with you. If we were taking about cars, it seems to me like if Wheatfield was comparing a Mercedes 600 S (120000 €) Vs Alfa Romeo 159 (30000 €) or something like this. It doesn't make sense because it isn't the same market segment.

Have you checked prices lately? Rhetorical question, you obviously haven't, or you wouldn't have posted such tripe.
In my market, a K20 is around $1100.00, a D300 is around $1750.00. Is the D300 more money? Absolutely, it's half again as much.
It's the cost of a 35mm LTD lens more money.
But it's not four times as much, it just feels like it gives that much more performance.
And it's not out of Pentax's reach to do it, and frankly, with the quality of glass they have in the market right now, they are stupid to not have a camera in the same performance class.

[nixcamic]

...why don't you just "shut the H**L up and move on" if you don't like what others are posting. You don't have to click, you don't have to read, and you don't have to reply, but you did all 3. weird.

Maybe it's because they were here first, and are unhappy that the forum they love is getting filled with unnecessary crap that doesn't help anyone. Although you do have a point, if no one read or replied to these, they would die and be off onto the second page, and people might get bored and stop posting them.

Edit: I now realize its kinda ironic for me to reply saying noone should reply.

[Peter Zack]

Maybe it's because they were here first, and are unhappy that the forum they love is getting filled with unnecessary crap that doesn't help anyone. Although you do have a point, if no one read or replied to these, they would die and be off onto the second page, and people might get bored and stop posting them.

you make a valid point nixcamic and I need to follow that advice more often. Unfortunately these threads have a life of their own and can become filled with irrelevant and error ridden rumours cloaked as facts. If the mods don't want to control the flow of some threads (I'm not saying stop free speech) then it's up to the members to at least try and refute mistakes.

[Torrentes]

We were talking D3 vs K20D no D300

[Blue]

Have you looked at how much sports photography has changed over the past couple of decades?

I owned a Beemer once. A 530i.
My one and only foray into European cars. It wasn't a happy one, the darned thing caught fire while I was driving one day.
But that's another story..

I know how much sports photography has changed. That wasn't the point however. A lot of people that came up with AF systems seem to think it is impossible to do sports photography with manual focus. The winder was more of a monumental influence on action photography for film cameras than af was.

[séamuis]

The winder was more of a monumental influence on action photography for film cameras than af was.

I totally agree.

[Blue]

All those you mentioned are more than your average Beemer and/or are aftermarket. The Mustang GT....well maybe in a straight line to a 3 series. But when you throw in a twist and turn (i.e. moving object, lower light conditions, what have you) then your ford goes careening off the cliff (you get shi++y pics).

Oh. We are back to consumer lenses. Doesn't matter the level of Beemer wasn't stated. I'd put the Mustang GT up against the equivalent Beemer anytime over different situations and the GT up against any production European car made. Just like a camera, who is driving can make a significant difference.

Edit: The point of the analogy is that Henry Ford made it possible for people to drive good cars while Pentax did the same for photography.

[MJ²]

It seems any forum in the world becomes riddled with this type of thread. I'd expect more of it on a general photography site. But it seems like peopel like to push other's buttons on dedicated sites.

Over on my motorcycle forums you have someone spouting off about buying the latest top of the line model model only to go for a ride and end up waiting for them to catch up. A top rider will go through the curves on the 88hp 2x as fast as the so-so one on the 150hp trying to make the machine do all the work. But of coarse, the same top rider would be able to get even better times on the "better" moto, even more so with lots of practice time on it.

Same thing here. I can sense the frustration with reaching the top of a favorite manufactorer's product line, knowing that some others go up the scale. But looking at it from Pentax's view point, there mission is a little different which still being a nitch player. The cost vs. features are hard to beat. Several years of building this DSLR nitche will hopefully provide the funds/expertise/etc to continually step it up and grow, but always lagging the "top of the market"

"Wish List" threads can be useful for when there are no direct model comparison's along the upper sections of the product line. But, dumbing it down to one thing sucks and another is great because there is no direct comparison is a little over simplified and easily annoying.

Best thing is to have a separate sub-forum for these types of threads so they can easily be passed by with out littering the main Pentax DSLR sub-forum.