[monochrome]

@starbase218. Hope you enjoy your new gear. Don’t know what makes you think I want to read about it though.

[Rondec]

Well, then just maybe my 10-day Vipassana meditation course and 4,5 month trip have paid of.



I have gotten many shots I'm happy with with my Pentax gear. I'm just not willing to invest in it any more. My goal was never to develop skills to make the camera work. My goal was to learn and improve my photography. Whatever that means I'm just beginning to discover.



I choose Nikon, but it really isn't that important. Not to me anyway, other than the fact that you have to have faith in your gear. For me, I have more faith in Nikon. It feels better. Beyond that, though, it's not important. It's a starting point. The gear allows you to shoot. But it still has a viewfinder and a shutter release button, just like Pentax. I still have a way to go from that point of view. Like how to act in a way that allows me to e.g. capture meaningful moments between perfect strangers on the street without them being upset about it. That's what I'd like to do. I can think of that now.



Me neither. I simply responded to his request for experiences from people who jumped to other brands.

---------- Post added 10-21-2017 at 11:20 PM ----------



I think I'm probably able to influence people close to me in a big way. Actually, I know I am. With forum members, though, not so much, I think. But if I have, I'm sorry. It was never my intention. I was just in a bad situation and felt powerless to do anything about it.



Well, if they honestly feel that way, they should jump. Like I said, gear is not so important, but people should make the choices they're happy with, whatever the rest of the world thinks about those choices (unless they're violating the law or something).

And if you feel positive about Pentax, good, stay with it. If it is the best starting point for you to be able to not focus on gear but to focus on creating something meaningful (to you anyway), great.

As for universal standards, I don't care about that. It sounds too much like what other people find "normal" and can only serve to drown out my inner voice.

Well, I guess thanks for sharing your inner voice with the rest of us.

I guess I found your tone to be pretty antagonistic towards those of us who are still shooting with Pentax cameras (fools that we are). There are plenty of folks who don't need tracking auto focus and for the rest, Pentax is quite good. Your D7100 is a nice camera, but so is the K3 II. Both of them have areas which are strengths and both have weaknesses compared to the other. In the US, the K3 II is 150 dollars cheaper than the D7200 (I don't think the D7100 is available new any more), but clearly they are targeting the same demographic and have pretty similar specifications. Nikon did weaken the D7xxx line some to protect the D500.

To the OP, I haven't really considered switching since the K-1 was released. That camera ticks enough of the boxes that I am pretty satisfied right now. Selling lenses and starting over would be a chore, I would probably lose a little money (mostly on camera bodies) and I don't know that I would see any improvement in my photos since my biggest limitations lie behind the viewfinder.

[starbase218]

@starbase218. Hope you enjoy your new gear. Don’t know what makes you think I want to read about it though.

Well, I guess thanks for sharing your inner voice with the rest of us.

I guess I found your tone to be pretty antagonistic towards those of us who are still shooting with Pentax cameras (fools that we are). There are plenty of folks who don't need tracking auto focus and for the rest, Pentax is quite good. Your D7100 is a nice camera, but so is the K3 II. Both of them have areas which are strengths and both have weaknesses compared to the other. In the US, the K3 II is 150 dollars cheaper than the D7200 (I don't think the D7100 is available new any more), but clearly they are targeting the same demographic and have pretty similar specifications. Nikon did weaken the D7xxx line some to protect the D500.

To the OP, I haven't really considered switching since the K-1 was released. That camera ticks enough of the boxes that I am pretty satisfied right now. Selling lenses and starting over would be a chore, I would probably lose a little money (mostly on camera bodies) and I don't know that I would see any improvement in my photos since my biggest limitations lie behind the viewfinder.

I guess the only way to respond to this is wishing both of you the best of luck in your lives.

[stevebrot]

Pentax is on the right path with DC and PLM (just pretend SDM wasn't a thing), and they can keep improving AF speeds bit by bit.

I wish there was a good and diplomatic way to suggest that people not purchase the two original DA* zooms with their slow SDM drives. The lenses are optically quite decent, but the AF drives should have been updated several years ago.


Steve

[stevebrot]

@starbase218. Hope you enjoy your new gear. Don’t know what makes you think I want to read about it though.

As he noted, his post is on-topic regardless of its rantish qualities. The irony is that he is in the process of selling gear that he is on record stating is of low value and poor performance. Even as a Pentax fan, I would be suspicious of defects. I hope he does not take too deep a bath in the transition.


Steve

[monochrome]

As he noted, his post is on-topic regardless of its rantish qualities. The irony is that he is in the process of selling gear that he is on record stating is of low value and poor performance. Even as a Pentax fan, I would be suspicious of defects. I hope he does not take too deep a bath in the transition.

Steve

The original reply to the OP’s post is on topic, and somewhat interesting; Pentax was probably not the proper choice to meet his objectives in the first place. The tone of the subsequent replies is unfortunately whiny and dismissive. The ongoing conversation afterward smacks of pot shots on the way out the door, and illustrates why off and on I’ve Ignored the poster.

Why do people who have jumped ship keep coming back to PF anyway?

The SDM issues of the DA*16~50/2.8 is a legitimate gripe, but should he generalize to the entire DA* Line? Has he shot with every one of them? Are they all that slow? I don't understand the AF speed fetish anyway.

The canard about paying more for a Pentax rebadge of a Tamron lens w/o the ILIS has been beaten to death. Apparently they’re the same optical formula, assembled by Tamron to Pentax spec with Pentax materials. They’re not the same lenses, but you can buy the Tamron if you want, right? Same goes for the other Tokina versions of Pentax lenses.

[SpecialK]

I had some pretty good Pentax gear, but the K-5/Sigma 150-500 combo failed to focus too many times at airshows. I bought a used D40 and new Tamron 150-600 that was noticeably better for that use. I got the cheap 50 because...it was a cheap second lens. Then I got a 17mm tilt-and-shift because it sounded like fun (and is). It was not really feasible to juggle 2 systems, so I sold off the Pentax and expanded the other. No complaints.

[biz-engineer]

But people on forums love their brand, and they show it.

Yes, you are right , that's a cognitive bias that's called something like "ownership endowment" which means people give more value to what they own once they own it. That also is observed with Nikon and Canon camera owners. I have a Canon friend who constantly mention the "oil on sensor", "light leak" and "shutter failures" of Nikon cameras. My answer to him is "How about the AF motor failures of the 24-105 ?" and "how about the dynamic range of canon sensor" and his answer was "I've never heard about that" (which is a big lie). I also have a friend from Quebec going outdoor in deep freezing winter and he enjoys doing this, while other people complain that the weather is awful. So it seem that value is a relative thing to every one of us, which depends on our attitude towards things and how we deal with shortcomings. The way you dealt with Pentax shortcomings if that you equipped yourself with Nikon, and, I'm sure Nikon has limitations, but the most important is that if you believe Nikon is good you'll work around issues such as getting annoyed by the user interface. Important it to find a way of use and learn how to work around things that don't originally fit our wishes.

[Rondec]

If your main focus is long lenses, then Pentax has fewer options than the competition. As far as auto focus speed goes, newer bodies and lenses probably are a significant improvement (ones with DC motors/DFA zooms). Certainly they aren't at 1Dx speed, but I think more than adequate.

It is telling as well that one of the biggest reasons that people leave Pentax is for third party lenses. I suppose that is understandable, but not exactly Pentax's fault.

[bm75]

I always find someway inappropriate to start thread about the fact of switching brand in any specific brand photography Forum. Switching is one of those personal choices that many of us made and will make but depends on personal need, aims, way of shooting, professional use and so on. The experience, by the way , it's shareble. At least this is my opinion. But I don't find the OP post offensive. My experience:
1 - I have got nIkon d300 and nikon d7100. In any way I consider those camera better in IQ than pentax counterparts. Nikon's RAW are "anemic" , but the quality is here both in Penta and Nikon, for sure.
2 - AF module (Multicam DX 3500) is really good for sports photography due to wide span of the AF points, f/8 compatibility (TC Use) , 51 AF points, 3 d tracking . But for stills itìs way too much. For stills my k5 has a sufficient AF, the performance in newest AF modules with appropriate firmware for sure is better.
3 - I'm saving money for K1 for general photography. I will never go FF to 36/42 mpx with Nikon (D800 camera has too much microblur due to the mirror mechanism). D600/D750 (24 mox) are plagued with problems (shutter mechanism, oil on the sensor, green magenta color cast).
4 - Nikon CLS (creative lightning system) is amazing. my SB 700 (used item, 190 Euro in brand new conditions) simply flashes PERFECTLY every shot on and off camera, wiressly remoted (by camera features, 3 channes).
5 - I MISS SR . Nikon's Vr is not the same.
6 - In Italy Nikon's used market is strong. Pentax simply has no market , unfortunately. Pentax lenses (in Italy) are much more expensive.
7 . Yes Nikon already have the 1.4 and 1.8 and 2.8 prime ens line ups...........but.........how many of those lenses will be in my bag?

To sum up my opinion, for the OP: don't bash your Pentax gear, keep it with you and use it for its strenghts and amazing IQ.
Good light!

[stevebrot]

Why do people who have jumped ship keep coming back to PF anyway?

I don't know. I have often wondered that too. I did chuckle at the notion that a change of gear could free one to become truly good at the craft. When upgrade or brand change discussions come around, I often ask people where their "pain" or "rub" points are and whether the "pain" is bad enough to justify a change. It is as simple as that.

For some, part of the pain is the realization that they bought into a system or gear that was ill-suited to how they developed in choice of subject or style. That is tragic in a way. The strange part is how some insist on proclaiming loudly that they blame the product for not anticipating their growth. The inference is that they were not too smart with their money.

I have a pair of long-term friends who have made a living with their cameras since the early 1980s doing hard-core wildlife. Their choice of gear has shifted over the years, but I don't know that I have ever heard them bad-mouth their previous choices. IIRC, Art Wolfe (celebrated wildlife photographer) started with Olympus, made his name with Nikon, and now uses and promotes Canon (Canon-sponsored for both video and still). I suspect he could probably go back to his OM-1 and still do credible work.


Steve

[monochrome]

I don't know. I have often wondered that too. I did chuckle at the notion that a change of gear could free one to become truly good at the craft. When upgrade or brand change discussions come around, I often ask people where their "pain" or "rub" points are and whether the "pain" is bad enough to justify a change. It is as simple as that.

For some, part of the pain is the realization that they bought into a system or gear that was ill-suited to how they developed in choice of subject or style. That is tragic in a way. The strange part is how some insist on proclaiming loudly that they blame the product for not anticipating their growth. The inference is that they were not too smart with their money.

I have a pair of long-term friends who have made a living with their cameras since the early 1980s doing hard-core wildlife. Their choice of gear has shifted over the years, but I don't know that I have ever heard them bad-mouth their previous choices. IIRC, Art Wolfe (celebrated wildlife photographer) started with Olympus, made his name with Nikon, and now uses and promotes Canon (Canon-sponsored for both video and still). I suspect he could probably go back to his OM-1 and still do credible work.


Steve

I do understand the frustration with the AF for those who shoot bursts to capture action. I’ve shot with my son’s 7D and nice lenses. The lock is a little faster than my KP. The frame rate is no higher than my KP. He has more captures to choose from when shooting Sports, but his burst shot images of smiling babies, for instance, are no better than mine shooting single, AF.S with similar lenses.

I have no doubt Nikon’s 51 point AF sensor outperforms the K-3 AF sensor; both are 2013 cameras. The K-3 replacement should have significantly better AF performance with better lenses than the 16-50, so his observations, given the lenses he has, are correct at this time.

IMO the notion that K-70 with DA Limiteds is the only true value Pentax kit is absurd.

[stevebrot]

I don't understand the AF speed fetish anyway.

I sort of do, though I think the complaint is often a form of whining that the camera is not handing them the shot on a silver platter. The most common complaints seem to be related to weddings where critical shots (the decisive moments, so to speak) were missed as the camera sorted out something...or AF failed to respond in a spray 'n pray scenario. <shrugs>

How much of this is a hardware failing and how much is inexperience is hard to say. I know pros that shoot weddings with manual focus film gear, so perhaps knowing what one's gear can and cannot do may be a factor.


Steve

[stevebrot]

I had some pretty good Pentax gear, but the K-5/Sigma 150-500 combo failed to focus too many times at airshows.

I can imagine. That is like doing BIF on speed. I would not have responded except for a recent post by Mike Oria* on Flickr which was basically an unanticipated "grab shot" during Fleet Week in San Francisco.




K-3II, D FA 150-450/4, Tamron 1.4x TC.

Apparently the fates were smiling on him or the SR and AF were in particularly good form that day. FWIW, Mike generally does very striking landscape work. "Birds" in flight are not his regular thing.


Steve

* Pentax Forums member @MikeSF

[bm75]

The first time I used the Nikon D300 (12 mpx sensor camera from 2007) coming from k5 I literally missed EVERY SHOT. On the charts, its AF (the multicam 3500 already used in d7100 and D7200) was superior but I waasn't able to capture a full burst of my son engaged in MTB race. I discovered that :
1- D300 (semipro) isn't able to shoot in burst higher than a ridiculous 2 fps when in 14 bits raw (Ch+12 bits raw goes to 5 fps without BG).mY K5 fires 14 bits raw at maximum frame rate without limitations.
2 - D300 isn't able to fire the flash in Ch (burst mode) .... ridiculous ......
3 - I felt like a perfect idiot.
So I realized that my k5 had features that were useful and much more important than the simple AF. Later I discovered how to squeeze the max performance out of the D300 and realized that the K5 was a much better camera in handling ISOS and DR. Later more I discovered how to properly expose and develop the D300 files, so I realized what I'm always convinced of: i.e. the man behind the camera is much more important than the gear. So, now I simply go out to take pictures and enjoy whatever camera brand I currently use, trying to take the best from the gear. I finally realized i'm a perfect idiot to let my trusted k5 go to capitalize money for the k1.