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02-21-2007, 08:33 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
WMBP - what about the weight? Ain't the 10 a notch or two up over the 100?
As Rice says, if you don't like the scene modes - don't use 'em! I don't (except when using the built-in flash).

If you can afford a K10D, but don't need to upgrade (just want to), try stalling until the next upgrade comes out, then it may really be worthwhile.
Arpe,

Thanks for the note.

I do not DISLIKE the way the K100D feels, but I do also like the heavier feel of the K10D, and I may like it more. I'm a big guy with big hands. It took me a little time to get used to the K100D after having spent the previous several years using the Canon S1/S2/S3 compact superzoom series, but now that I am used to the bigger camera, I really like it and the two smaller fixed-lens cameras I've got here seem like toys.

As for waiting for the K20D or whatever it would be called, yes, that's occurred to me. I'm not sure why I have this itch to get the K10D, other than the fact that I'm so disappointed with the continuous shooting mode on the K100D. No one to blame for that. I knew that about the K100D before I purchased it. I have just found it more disappointing than I thought I would. But of course I could wait and I accept that as a plan worth pondering, regardless of the excellences of the K10D.

Thanks,

Will

02-21-2007, 08:35 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
1. Batteries show half depleted just after tens of shots;

2. Slower AF and more hunting in low light;

3. Very short overall battery life;

4. Fast self discharge of batteries inside the camera.
I'm using Energizer Nimh rechargeables. I have definitely not had problems 1, 3 or 4. I'm not sure about 2. Sometimes auto-focus does take time in low light, but I have been inclined to blame that on low light and low contrast and not on the batteries. I would blame it on the batteries if things were slow even in decent light, which has not been the case for me.

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02-21-2007, 08:41 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Am I missing something here - some really sweet feature of the K10D? And the big question: is there something about the K10D that helps it take better pictures (even if only marginally better) than the K100D, other things being equal?

I'd like to restate those questions, as they seem to have gotten lost here.

For the record, RiceHigh, I have taken in your opinion. I would still be grateful to hear from anybody who actually owns a K10D who could speak to the questions that I asked. :-)

Will
02-21-2007, 08:49 AM   #19
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I use Eneloop 2000mah batteries and for the life of me can not comprehend all the comments about the K100D eating batteries. I get great life out of mine, despite the fact I have never seen anyone who uses batteries with as low a power rating as mine.

02-21-2007, 08:51 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
I use Eneloop 2000mah batteries and for the life of me can not comprehend all the comments about the K100D eating batteries. I get great life out of mine, despite the fact I have never seen anyone who uses batteries with as low a power rating as mine.
Ditto, Mike. I can never remember when I last put batteries in my K100D because it was always so long ago. I shoot hundreds and hundreds of photos on the same batteries, no problem.

Will
02-21-2007, 09:01 AM   #21
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One point

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
*quote snipped*

But the lens and lens mount cannot withstand any moisture and water droplets!
Absolute BS. I have a bunch of different lenses (and a DS!) and I am not terribly worried about a little moisture or water droplets. Rain, yes. Fog, mist very light sprinkles no. The north east United States, specifically the coastal areas are quite wet, especially in the winter. In the three winters I have owned this camera, I have never once had a problem with "any moisture and water droplets" I am careful yes, but the camera and quite a few different lenses have been sprinkled, splashed (lightly) and drizzeled upon. Not a problem.

NaCl(just to set the record straight)H2O
02-21-2007, 09:14 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vulpix Quote
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read so far in this forum.
I'd have to agree. The K10D's controls are greatly improved over those of other models. For the record, I do have a DS2 (which is almost identical to the K100D, save the TTL and pentaprism) to compare it to

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
I have tried Panasonic 2000mAh, Sony 2100mAh, Sanyo 2500mAh NiMH on my *ist D, DS and K100D. They all share the same problem below (with the K100D most power hungry and thus problem most dominant):-

1. Batteries show half depleted just after tens of shots;

2. Slower AF and more hunting in low light;

3. Very short overall battery life;

4. Fast self discharge of batteries inside the camera.

With CR-V3 and regulated RCR-V3, the K100D is a camera which performs at its peak as it was originally designed.
But remember the K10D uses a Li-Ion battery, not the (worse) NiMh type.

On my DS2, I could squeeze out about 600 shots on a set of rechargeables and about 1100 on a set of lithiums. The K10D delivers an average of 800 for me, and I've only recharged it twice since it arrived (that's over 3 months and 2100 photos).

Adam
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02-21-2007, 09:23 AM   #23
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I replaced my *ist DL with a K10D at the end of November. I have been very happy with it. I have shot all JPEG's since Apple does not yet support the K series RAW files and I have been very pleased with the image quality also. I can go for weeks on one battery, though I did buy a second one so that I always have a spare with me. Probably the one feature I like best is the USER mode. I have mine set for aperture priority, ISO between 100 and 400 and a 3 shot bracketing sequence with 0.5 ev steps. That mode is far handier to me than any of the scene modes ever were on my DL.

02-21-2007, 09:29 AM   #24
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As far as batteries on the K100D, as soon as I take some time to get some regulated R-CRV3's, it's good bye to AA's. Aside from a proprietary Sony battery that cost big bucks and died after a year, I find that third party lithium-ions are inexpensive so you can always have one or two spares, and they perform great. I found that all of my older nimH's won't work on my K100D. Only new Energizer 2500's, Eneloops, and Sanyo 2700's. have worked. While they work fine now, I wonder what happens after a few dozen charge cycles.

Imagine the extra weight on the K10D with 4 AA's vs the slim NP200.

From what I recall of the original poster's shooting needs, his main gripe was photographing indoor kids sports, hence a desire to fire away in continuous mode with a big buffer? Well, the K10D will do that, but the tradeoff will be more noise at high ISO and ISO 1600 is the limit. So if he's got $1000 burning a hole in the pockets, maybe he's better off put that money into a faster long lens now and waiting til next season, when the K10D will surely be cheaper or will have been improved with a newer model.
02-21-2007, 09:30 AM   #25
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Hi Will, as you know I own neither camera so take what I'm writing for what it's worth. A while ago I walked into Adorama thinking of upgrading my DS for the K100D. I really want the K10D but simply cannot afford it, but I was lusting after the SR (I think the same way you are lusting after the continuous shot performance of the K10D) and I thought that since I couldn't afford the K10D, the K100 has the same SR so why not? I really liked the way the K100D felt, the ergonomics were good, tho pretty much no different than my DS, so there wouldn't be much of a learning curve, but I didn't get the camera. Why not? The viewfinder. My DS has a penta prism and I found it to be much brighter, especially in the dim confines of the Adorama store. Focusing and framing were easier with the DS. I almost bought the camera, but I've decided to wait till I can afford the K10D.
I guess my point is with all these words is that once you look thru the viewfinder of a K10D (or any pentaprism camera for that matter) you will be truely amazed to find it as much better than your K100D as the K100D is over your older p & s cameras.

NaCl(hope this sheds lignt (pun intended) on the matter)H2O
02-21-2007, 11:18 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Am I missing something here - some really sweet feature of the K10D? And the big question: is there something about the K10D that helps it take better pictures (even if only marginally better) than the K100D, other things being equal?
The ability to use SDM (Supersonic) lens, and wireless TTL flash using built-in flash. I think once you start exploring the possibility of using the flash off the camera, you will find that you can take better flash pictures.

And apart from the DA* lenses, there should be more SDM lenses to be released. One rumor is that the upcoming 17-70mm lens will also have SDM (should know more in 2 weeks time).

K10D's dual wheel control is a dream come true. I use Sv mode and Av with ISO control mode a lot. And it helps me to have total control over aperture / shutter speed / ISO using the two wheels - can't get any better than this.
02-21-2007, 11:42 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
... but I didn't get the camera. Why not? The viewfinder. My DS has a penta prism and I found it to be much brighter, especially in the dim confines of the Adorama store. Focusing and framing were easier with the DS. I almost bought the camera, but I've decided to wait till I can afford the K10D.

I guess my point is with all these words is that once you look thru the viewfinder of a K10D (or any pentaprism camera for that matter) you will be truely amazed to find it as much better than your K100D as the K100D is over your older p & s cameras.

Thanks, Salty - exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to learn. You're right, this is an important feature, in fact, this is what got me into thinking about getting a DSLR in the first place. Last fall, I was over at the Dallas Arboretum taking pictures with my Canon S3 IS. A fellow walked up with his girlfriend, said that I looked like I had a clue what I was doing and asked if I would take a picture of them with his camera. Well, he had an Olympus DSLR that he'd bought on eBay. I took several photos. I liked the way the camera felt in my hands - I liked the fact that it was bigger - and I LOVED what I saw looking through the viewfinder. It was liking walking out of Plato's cave and seeing the sun directly, after a life seeing only the shadows. I'm not sure that a better viewfinder itself is worth $500, but I would appreciate it very much.

Will
02-21-2007, 11:44 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
K10D's dual wheel control is a dream come true. I use Sv mode and Av with ISO control mode a lot. And it helps me to have total control over aperture / shutter speed / ISO using the two wheels - can't get any better than this.

Thanks, nosnoop. The reviews I've read of the K10D also mention the dual wheel control as a very good thing. Actually, the general view of reviewers is that the controls on the K10D are remarkably well laid out. Nothing really WRONG with the controls on the K100D, but I do still find myself digging into Menu or Fn a little more than I'd like.

Big problem is that it's hard here in Dallas to find a place that has the K10D on display. ...

Will
02-21-2007, 11:46 AM   #29
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"From what I recall of the original poster's shooting needs, his main gripe was photographing indoor kids sports, hence a desire to fire away in continuous mode with a big buffer? Well, the K10D will do that, but the tradeoff will be more noise at high ISO and ISO 1600 is the limit. So if he's got $1000 burning a hole in the pockets, maybe he's better off put that money into a faster long lens now and waiting til next season, when the K10D will surely be cheaper or will have been improved with a newer model."

###

chedboy makes the most valid comment.. perhaps the k100s better iso performance outweighs all the other perceived advantages the k10 has to offer.. it would to me with indoor sports shots..

in fact it does to me period.. better iso performance is numero uno..

trog
02-21-2007, 01:25 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by trog100 Quote
"From what I recall of the original poster's shooting needs, his main gripe was photographing indoor kids sports, hence a desire to fire away in continuous mode with a big buffer? Well, the K10D will do that, but the tradeoff will be more noise at high ISO and ISO 1600 is the limit. So if he's got $1000 burning a hole in the pockets, maybe he's better off put that money into a faster long lens now and waiting til next season, when the K10D will surely be cheaper or will have been improved with a newer model."

###

chedboy makes the most valid comment.. perhaps the k100s better iso performance outweighs all the other perceived advantages the k10 has to offer.. it would to me with indoor sports shots..

in fact it does to me period.. better iso performance is numero uno..

I've just come back from a visit to my local Wolf Camera, which did in fact have a K10D on display that they were willing to let me play with for a while. Having it in my hands, testing the controls, shooting a bunch of photos, and talking to the salesman there who himself owns a K10D - all this was very helpful.

My conclusion is simple: I really wish that I had a K10D, but I think I'm persuaded (for the moment, at least) that the K10D's advantages are not so overwhelming that I can't resist them. The few disadvantages of the K10D (as I perceive them) also weigh into my feeling that I can postpone upgrading for a while.

Shooting in continuous mode on the K10D in Raw was better than on the K100D - it would shoot two images, pause, then shoot two more, then pause, etc. With the K100D, I can shoot two images (Raw), and then go to lunch. Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but once the K100D's buffer gets stuffed, it doesn't seem to recover. So the K10D is BETTER, but it's hardly great. Now, shooting JPEG, the K10D can apparently keep shooting 2 fps until the card fills up. But here I'm handicapped by my desire to stick with Raw if possible. As somebody said in this thread, I think, nobody buys Pentax for burst mode. As I said, I knew that the K100D wasn't very good in this department before I bought it.

The K10D's viewfinder is nice, too - but it's not THAT much nicer than the K100D's, perhaps because I purchased the Pentax 1.2x viewfinder eyepiece upgrade? The K10D's controls do look very nicely laid out, but I think I can get the job done with the K100D, too. As I said in my original post, the other advantages of the K10D were never really decisive.

And of course I'm also influenced by the downsides of moving to the K10D: not just the cost of the camera, but the loss of the AA batteries, plus the fact that I'd have to hassle with selling my K100D, plus the possibility that the higher ISO performance of the K10D would not be as good as the K100D's, as chedoy and trog reminded me.

So, thanks to everybody for your input. I'm impressed with the K10D - but I think I can control the urge to sell my K100D and buy a K10D for a day or two more until the urge passes. This was a close call. Thanks to everybody for your informative and therapeutic help.

Will
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