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02-22-2007, 03:59 AM   #16
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And for my second post: I've been lurking here for a while and hadn't realised my earlier post was my first, however, I too prefer not to tiptoe through the day and am happy to call it as I see it. I don't think I called anyone any names though and I certainly don't aim to start now.
To return to the topic, this sort of stuff is why I read this forum, shared experience is a great way to learn.

02-22-2007, 04:02 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jfdavis58 Quote
OK, but that's still a cheesy answer.

Three different monitors and crossing the LCD/CRT bondary once I like the medium ACR kid best; default Pentax 1 curve second best; both on the left are too cyan/blue; the top middle kid is muddy in both white and gray-same with pentax linear but not as bad.

Photolab and ACR medium(def) have the best-cleanest-sunlight in the street---this matches tone in the clouds and sky; the clear building facade in the silkypix version is downright yellow--that's a 'need to see/know the building thing---I don't, advantage Richard-----but...

I've seen bigger variation from the same image on two different monitor/printer(home) and printers(out). In fact I've seen this much difference in images at different points in the same batch!

I'm tempted to say that you are biased by familiarity with both the'originals' of both images and Siklypix(mispelled on purpose--see I do have a small sense of humor). But, heck I don't know--tell what you see and think; that would be more fun anyway.
Hi John

I completely agree with you that many (most) monitor/printer combinations are completely skewed. I don't believe I'm biased by familiarity either, as I work a completely and regularly calibrated post processing system from monitor(s) through to printer, papers and ink (not default calibrations, but done individually).

Not being a B&W fan, and not being into artistry, but into accuracy, I'm very sensitive with regard to colour fidelity. I disliked the use of over saturated films like Velvia, I much preferred Astia or E100, or going back even further, Kodachrome 25. That's why I, and some others, put up with Sicklypix (I like the mis-spell! It doesn't relate to the IQ or colour fidelity, but that interface! ), or even, dare I say, PPL!

I agree that ACR has major advantages, especially with regard to working in an environment (Bridge + iMatch/iView + CS2) where XMP metadata is properly preserved. SP and PPL are extremely poor in that respect.

It would just be nice to have a more accurate "out of box" colour calibration. Yes, the building is that yellow! The reddish orange of ACR is completely wrong. Also as the little boy is one of my grandsons, I can vouch that he isn't that rosy cheeked, or red headed, as the ACR image.

When I've done my calibration for the K10D, I shall share the information in good faith. To be completely accurate, everyone should calibrate their own individual camera, as they are all slightly different, as indeed is every monitor or printer of the same model, but it will provide a good starting point. It's entirely up to the individual whether they choose to use it or not. As I have a very hectic time ahead of me, it won't be for a couple of weeks.

Have a great day!
02-22-2007, 04:19 AM   #18
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I'm with you on that colour fidelity thing: I like to start with an image as close to the original scene as possible, subjective as that is, before doing any of that "artistry" stuff.
It's interesting you mention Kodachrome 25, that's often the feeling I get from seeing my rendered shots on screen after using RAW Developer on my K100D PEFs, my current favourite. I find Photoshop doesn't quite get it right for me at that stage but is invaluable for further processing.
02-22-2007, 07:13 AM   #19
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ACR and why some don't like it

Wouldn't recommend reading too much of this thread, but you can pull out some of the cons of using ACR out of it. What it means to each of you is up to you, but seems like ACR could have made some better choices:
Re: Cool Demo! A question and comment...: Nikon D1/D2/D100/D200 Forum: Digital Photography Review
Ms Borgs father is the co-writer of RawMagik Lite (works w/ D) that uses floating point numbers instead of integers. Makes the program quite slow for me, compared to other converters, but is quite accurate.
RE:ACR, profiles are just the tip of the iceburg so to speak.
Not too relevent for this topic since it really involves a debate between shooting high iso vs shooting in low iso and -2ev (a very interesting topic in itself), but it does show a trend:
simple demo, image: Nikon D1/D2/D100/D200 Forum: Digital Photography Review
Re: Cool Demo! A question and comment...: Nikon D1/D2/D100/D200 Forum: Digital Photography Review


Last edited by jeffkrol; 02-22-2007 at 07:29 AM.
02-22-2007, 08:13 AM   #20
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Since this is a RAW comparison thread:
Just in case somebody missed it. I might have put it in the wrong sub-forum, as there wasn't a single reply. I did a RAW converter comparison with a bunch of pictures. Here is a link if anyone interested.

I compared I used Stopek's RAW importer (Free ware), Fastone Image Viewer (Freeware), SilkyPix 2 (Free Version), SilkyPix 3 (Trial version), Pentax Photo Lab 3 and the New Adobe Lightroom (Trial version).

wbphx357/RAWTest - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
02-22-2007, 08:33 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by oxford_artist Quote
I hope I'm not jumping in here, but that's a strange response from jfdavis58. Richard posts some pics to show relative renders with different engines together with his opinion that SilkyPix gets closest to the original "out-of-the -box". What's wrong with that? Simply informative with no other implications and he gets that sort of sarcastic comment. Doesn't seem very friendly, or even helpful, to me.
I'm not positive if he's a jerk but he sure likes to respond like one.

Last edited by sharpshoota; 02-22-2007 at 08:51 AM.
02-22-2007, 08:48 AM   #22
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Why it matters?

And why is it so important for everything to look exactly up to the minor hue like you think you remember now how it looked when you were taking the shot? How you can be sure that your visual memory is more precise in every minor detail than ACR engine? And other viewers how they would know what exactly you saw?

There's very little variation in all shots you showed. The key is that nothing on my calibrated monitor to my eyes looks unnatural or out of whack. In fact I like ACR building scenes more simply because they seem to be more expressive in color and convey the feeling of a sunset whether it was in your observed "reality" or not.

Shouldn't we care more about originality, impact, beauty, composition and other important things in our photos than about presumed minute color shifts based on our subjective perception of the scene long gone and what we think was/is the "reality"?
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