[Nicolas06]

If you have to go gray market or used to get a similar price than Pentax, then the Pentax is better value.

Actually I try to get the best price for things that tends to be costly. I don't bother necessarily if it cost a few hundred bucks, but for things that cost more than €/$1000, it start be somewhat significant money, a few day of work after taxes, a plane ticket to the other side of earh to get some nice vacation, the food for a few months... In that case, I tend to take more care, and if I can get a nice used offer, get an alternatve brand (like sigma/tamron) or if a different seller that I can check is serious can get me a better price, I'll go for it.

Of course if that pocket money for you, there no reason to even compare prices and In can perfectly understand it.

[Kunzite]

Comparing prices is not the issue here, but how you do it.

[Nicolas06]

Ok let's do it again.

Let's search Pentax K1 and google and look at the best price and see what we get:
- Used offers on Rakuten and ebay 1709€.
- New on a well considered vendor still cheap: 1999€
- standard price on many most well known vendors: 2299€.
- The cheapest price on the grey market is by One Shop digital,getting it from Hong Kong at 1591€.

Let's search A7 with the 28-75 included as usually the price is no more than the body alone:
- 800€ on Rakuten
- Standard price on many most well known vendors: 999€.
=> In both case you can resell the lens for at least 150€, so that put the price of the body alone at something like 650-850€.

Let's search A7RII, body only:
- Used offers on Rakuten: 1789€
- New on well considered vendor: 2890€
- standard price on many shops: 2890€
- The cheapest price on the grey market is by E-Infinity Online Camera Store: 1759€

Sony offer 300€ cash back for A7RII and 100€ for A7, I didn't check for Pentax but I guess there a similar offering ?


The price of K1 and A7RII is similar on grey market and used. The A7RII is more expensive if you take standard shop, that's true. If you only want an FF body, the A7 price is much much better.

Having said all that, I don't see the K1 has that well positioned or cheap or whatever. If you just want an FF and don't care of super high resolution as basically 24MP is enough for most use cases, there many cheaper FF out there. The A7 is much much cheaper. It is 20% cheaper than the A7RII at standard price but that not especially surprising as the A7RII has some key features it deal better with: video/AF essentially. If you want to get K1 or A7RII at a great price either used or on grey market, price are similar.

If you'd want high-end offering. K1 isn't the most high end body by far.

K1 was great when it came out as an overall deal. It is still great if you have lot of K-mount FF investment already or if you really find something out of the Pentax DNA. But other than that today, with current prices for somebody not already heavily invested in Pentax, it doesn't have anything particulary interresting. The price isn't great, it is so-so. And if you are invested elsewhere or new on the market, there absolutely no reason to target it more than anything else.

To switch is mostly to see what fantastic things are there in another brand you want and Pentax may not offer. It will be by definition depend of what you value the most of course. But counting that the other brand have many differentiator vs pentax, it may be completely justified. The reverse is true, even if I tend to think that most of Pentax strength are also available on other brand now (pixel shift, IBIS, ergonomics, sturdy WR bodies) and Pentax has clearly shifted in term of price. it is no longer a value brand offering more for less.

[Rondec]

Ok let's do it again.

Let's search Pentax K1 and google and look at the best price and see what we get:
- Used offers on Rakuten and ebay 1709€.
- New on a well considered vendor still cheap: 1999€
- standard price on many most well known vendors: 2299€.
- The cheapest price on the grey market is by One Shop digital,getting it from Hong Kong at 1591€.

Let's search A7 with the 28-75 included as usually the price is no more than the body alone:
- 800€ on Rakuten
- Standard price on many most well known vendors: 999€.
=> In both case you can resell the lens for at least 150€, so that put the price of the body alone at something like 650-850€.

Let's search A7RII, body only:
- Used offers on Rakuten: 1789€
- New on well considered vendor: 2890€
- standard price on many shops: 2890€
- The cheapest price on the grey market is by E-Infinity Online Camera Store: 1759€

Sony offer 300€ cash back for A7RII and 100€ for A7, I didn't check for Pentax but I guess there a similar offering ?


The price of K1 and A7RII is similar on grey market and used. The A7RII is more expensive if you take standard shop, that's true. If you only want an FF body, the A7 price is much much better.

Having said all that, I don't see the K1 has that well positioned or cheap or whatever. If you just want an FF and don't care of super high resolution as basically 24MP is enough for most use cases, there many cheaper FF out there. The A7 is much much cheaper. It is 20% cheaper than the A7RII at standard price but that not especially surprising as the A7RII has some key features it deal better with: video/AF essentially. If you want to get K1 or A7RII at a great price either used or on grey market, price are similar.

If you'd want high-end offering. K1 isn't the most high end body by far.

K1 was great when it came out as an overall deal. It is still great if you have lot of K-mount FF investment already or if you really find something out of the Pentax DNA. But other than that today, with current prices for somebody not already heavily invested in Pentax, it doesn't have anything particulary interresting. The price isn't great, it is so-so. And if you are invested elsewhere or new on the market, there absolutely no reason to target it more than anything else.

To switch is mostly to see what fantastic things are there in another brand you want and Pentax may not offer. It will be by definition depend of what you value the most of course. But counting that the other brand have many differentiator vs pentax, it may be completely justified. The reverse is true, even if I tend to think that most of Pentax strength are also available on other brand now (pixel shift, IBIS, ergonomics, sturdy WR bodies) and Pentax has clearly shifted in term of price. it is no longer a value brand offering more for less.

I have no idea about Europe. I will say that the K-1 is still a very nice camera for here in the US. The A7 II is 1600 dollars new and the K-1 is selling for 1800. Considering the differences in build quality and features like pixel shift and astro tracer and better viewfinder (the A7 II EVF is nothing to write home about) I think the K-1 is at least as good a deal. As far as all of these 24 megapixel cameras out there, the 6D II is 1900 dollars and has a far inferior sensor to the K-1. The D750 is 1800 dollars (these are all new prices on Amazon).

I do have a hard time including used gear in price comparisons because I have no idea the condition of the gear. The A7 was released in 2013 and a used camera that is five years old, while cheap is not necessarily going to be reliable long term -- even if the shutter count is low.

But the OP has chosen to move on to Sony and so we are in the odd position of living in his thread, arguing about a decision that he has already made.

[credos4u]

Having said all that, I don't see the K1 has that well positioned or cheap or whatever.

I have to disagree SOMEHOW. Because:

One part of me says:

yep, that was the reason why i prayed for the upcoming full frame to have:
much much better Autofocus.
more silent screw-drive AF mechanism
4K Video
120 or at least 60p FullHD Video recording
fast burst rate and a real fat buffer to have a burst long enough.
simple K-5 like interface without too many fujiesk-wheels.
maybe more reliable Card-port options than SD... just like CF or XQD....(CFEXPRESS would be the real deal in a K-1 successor)
(on the new Nikons the Cardport is even exchangeable!!!)

and I have to admit: dynamic range and IQ on the K-1 is excellent ... but in all other aspects, RICOH didnt show off that they can build a real performer-camera.
by missing those features i listed above.
They even kicked out NFC...what was said to be included. though you have that tech in smartphones that cost 100 dollars or much less.
And instead ricoh bestowed us with:
-) an additional wheel with redundant functions that you can access in the same time by using button and rear e-dial combos.(thats also a weak point BTW)
-) fancy LEDs- where backlit buttons would have been way cooler and just one LED at the cardport.
-) some quirky display that -though admittedly cool- really was not that important.... a mere tiltnswivel would have done the job for me.
-) 4fps burst... -even some analogue pentax bodies had faster framerates...
-) an AF system that isnt much better than in some lower spec Nikon crop body...
-) much too much MP for FF
-why care about crop sensor users... ?when the FF body ricoh offers has lower specs than their APS-C flagship,... does it really make sense to justify a pixel overloaded sensor by sayin : 's' for the crop lens users...???
(IMO pictures shot on bodies with bigger sensels... so less MP.... have more of this clean&crisp-looking effect... thats the reason why one uses 50-100MP medium format bodies if he needs a real high resolution)
-) and if all that wherent enough scorn to all those users who counted on ricoh to deliver a real overperformer in terms of logic and usability we got USB2.0 alongside the pixel-swollen sensor. *headnod*
- what in the end means finally, there is a pro PENTAX FF body with tethering support by cable.... BUT you have a slower connection than with your 24mp crop body that practically(for what??) had offered you USB3.0

and as much as I like watching pictures with a wide DR on screens .... you never get em printed like that.. except you retouch them to overemphasize this dynamic range with some HDR tool.

and my priority list when i think about good pictures reads like:
1st good pictures often show hard to catch moments
2nd good pictures pictures are good composition (so except you have to frame it right - focus also has to sit where you want it)
3rd good pictures have to be sharp and should look clean&crisp
4th good pictures have to show a good dynamic range

PENTAX seems to see it the other way around.

So I totally understand why one would want to switch to another brand.

But the other part of me says:

As soon as you have to think about RELIABILITY and STURDINESS of your equipemnt... and have even 2 real good PENTAX lenses...
I would say:
DO NOT EVER LEAVE YOUR SYSTEM. YOU WILL REGRET IT SOONER OR LATER AND WILL BE UNABLE TO ADMIT IT BECAUSE LOOKIN BACK AT THE MONEY YOU LOST BY SWITCHING YOU WOULD HAVE TO FEEL LIKE A MULE WHEN YOU ARE HONEST TO YOURSELF.
SONY is known to act reckless when customers demand their warranty... and even if you have insurance on your equipment...
What use will that make to you, when you are on a shooting and your equipment smiles back it you with a black main lcd when you want to turn it on, because it cant cope with the heat or humidity killed it.
??
So if you dont need or dont care about video; And you are quite experienced already... you should have that certain triggerfinger and foresight that will get you around the drawbacks of the K-1.
and you will get used to:
oversee that dumb wheel that you may never use if you ever had a K-5 or K-3 and read its manual .. LOL
and it is up to you to decide on the speed of workflow in your studio when you shoot 36mp photos tethered through that lousy USB2.0 connection.

if you want to shoot sports sporadically, you should just wait for a used A6500 body and buy a 24-240 or a Sony FE 70-300 G OSS lens.
What will give you pictures that are tack sharp from edge to edge. And you will never need more for shootin sports.

despite the fact that all those "buy me"-factors other cameras may offer often also make me think i may switch away from PENTAX somewhen,
i have to say:
I would not really like to leave my pentax-system, because:
-) I know it in and out and I always know what i am doing when I quickly want to change some settings.
-) personally i dont use video that often
-) i have that certain foresight, that a less experienced photographer can compensate by having a fast burst.
-) I as sad as i am because i know a PENTAX-balanced 24MP Sensor would look even cleaner--- the IQ of a PENTAX K-1 will indeed blow you away if you compare it to those overpriced fuji bricks or even an A9.
-) though that darn USB2.0 p... me off, you will never ever find a better bang for the buck camera if you do a lot of studio-work. NEVER.

I remember that KAI MAN WONG once said in some PENTAX review(i guess it was K-5IIS vs. Nikon D7100), that PENTAX could indeed build really nice cameras but either they dont want to,
just because they feel funny or they have to have such a stiff "management level" that you could take one of their managers and use him as a broomstick.
I cant remember the exact diction, but man he just described it the right way, and he even realised the one and only design mistake of the K-5 bodies...
... ha... found the vid... they show the lever problem at app. min 4:30...

You Tube

You Tube

(he always does fair reviews on PENTAX gear)

And a last one for you:
If you still dont find peace with your pentax and cant smile about its minor drawbacks, you shouldnt go into deep into spec-peaking other cameras...
its better to rent them for a while, then you know what you are dealing with. and google for customer-support experiences...

So because i thing Kaiman made a wish in the vid:
I hereby vote for Kaiman Wong for "HEAD of CAMERA DEVELOPMENT" at PENTAX a Ricoh Company...

[Nicolas06]

SONY is known to act reckless when customers demand their warranty... and even if you have insurance on your equipment...

Go a defective DA15 with terrible decentering, pentax "repeared it" I paid for it., and got me back a failing terribly lens in another part of the image. Got another one paying for it... And it is better but still has some issue on some photos. O don't blame Pentax that much I understand what is consumer grade support and repear center, but I was not impressed neither.

-) I know it in and out and I always know what i am doing when I quickly want to change some settings.
-) personally i dont use video that often
-) i have that certain foresight, that a less experienced photographer can compensate by having a fast burst.

Mostly agree except I don't see it as foresight but more that I don't care for fast burst at all and it doesn't make sense if the AF doesn't follow anyway.

But what sealed the fate of Pentax for me was it doesn't fit the basic requirement of what I wanted my next camera to be, and provided things I didn't care. End of story. Basically no small/light FF body and no constant apperture 24-105 f/4 lens to mount on it and an AF that even if it was to improve a lot would be subject to back/front focus like all DSLR. On top of it in the past years, they focussed on big/heavy lenses, something that I am not interrested in at all.

[following.eric]

Got my A7ii in the mail this week and on the waiting list for the 24-105mm f4.

So far obviously cant give a good review. Body is much smaller but weight is the same.

For me I am most excited to have made the decision to downsize my kit. Just go simple. one lens for now and focus and just taking shots. Obviously I could have done the same with the k70 (which apparently nobody wants to buy. Re-sellers here have offered me £200).

Part of photography is going through a learning curve and buying equipment, selling equipment and making wrong choices. If every company offered the same thing and if they all cost the same then it just wouldn't be fun. Pentax do make good cameras. But despite weather sealing and robust bodies, it didnt prevent my k50 from suffering the aperture problem after 27k shutter clicks. So Pentax isnt perfect either.

Only time will tell if I have made the long term decision. I wouldnt say it is right or wrong. it is a journey I must go on. At the end of the day I want to improve my photography but also as time goes on my interest shift. I put loads of money into lenses thinking I needed them and I didn't. Sure every once in a while a fish eye is fun. But when I am out running around london with one lens it was not the one I would grab.

My decision is to go one lens one body for the next while and why not go full-frame. sure APSc has come along way and I have some beautiful prints from my sensor, but I have an opportunity to explore full frame and gain all of the above.

a final reason, I am excited is for the future. I have bought the A7ii for what I can afford and for my needs, but seeing the new Sony cameras coming out is exciting. Sure it could go bust or sony could sell it off or decide to move on. Even pentax can go out of business. But I am excited that I don't have to dream. or spend time on rumour forums speculating the next k3iii or the k1ii or if mirorless is coming. I already know whats coming, it's already out A9, A7riii. Sure I can't afford it but it is exciting seeing what will be second hand down the road or what I may be able to afford.

At the end of the day a photo is a photo and all the specs in the world don't matter. It's your intentions, you passion, your enthusiasm and so much more. My photography may not change, but my excitement has and if down the road Pentax comes out with some outstanding gear then I'll be first in line to come back.

Now if someone who just buy the rest of my Pentax gear. Nobody in the UK wants any of it. Selling my k70 for almost £200 off market price and not one person has messaged me. Just not a desired item

[richard0170]

Got my A7ii in the mail this week and on the waiting list for the 24-105mm f4.

So far obviously cant give a good review. Body is much smaller but weight is the same.

For me I am most excited to have made the decision to downsize my kit. Just go simple. one lens for now and focus and just taking shots. Obviously I could have done the same with the k70 (which apparently nobody wants to buy. Re-sellers here have offered me £200).

Part of photography is going through a learning curve and buying equipment, selling equipment and making wrong choices. If every company offered the same thing and if they all cost the same then it just wouldn't be fun. Pentax do make good cameras. But despite weather sealing and robust bodies, it didnt prevent my k50 from suffering the aperture problem after 27k shutter clicks. So Pentax isnt perfect either.

Only time will tell if I have made the long term decision. I wouldnt say it is right or wrong. it is a journey I must go on. At the end of the day I want to improve my photography but also as time goes on my interest shift. I put loads of money into lenses thinking I needed them and I didn't. Sure every once in a while a fish eye is fun. But when I am out running around london with one lens it was not the one I would grab.

My decision is to go one lens one body for the next while and why not go full-frame. sure APSc has come along way and I have some beautiful prints from my sensor, but I have an opportunity to explore full frame and gain all of the above.

a final reason, I am excited is for the future. I have bought the A7ii for what I can afford and for my needs, but seeing the new Sony cameras coming out is exciting. Sure it could go bust or sony could sell it off or decide to move on. Even pentax can go out of business. But I am excited that I don't have to dream. or spend time on rumour forums speculating the next k3iii or the k1ii or if mirorless is coming. I already know whats coming, it's already out A9, A7riii. Sure I can't afford it but it is exciting seeing what will be second hand down the road or what I may be able to afford.

At the end of the day a photo is a photo and all the specs in the world don't matter. It's your intentions, you passion, your enthusiasm and so much more. My photography may not change, but my excitement has and if down the road Pentax comes out with some outstanding gear then I'll be first in line to come back.

Now if someone who just buy the rest of my Pentax gear. Nobody in the UK wants any of it. Selling my k70 for almost £200 off market price and not one person has messaged me. Just not a desired item

I may well be interested in your K70. I live in the UK. How much do you want for it?

[LeeRunge]

I had this same debate with myself last year. I still have my Pentax gear but it's up for sale shortly. Early last year I picked up a OMD EM10ii which grew into a comparable kit to my K3 setup. I basically never picked up the K3 after that. The OMD is really really good for the price and more importantly it's tiny and highly portable. With a full complement of lenses it's nearly as compact as the K3 and just a telephoto. Unfortunately for the OMD, unlike it's very expensive EM1 II it uses contrast detection which is pretty bad at night. The K3 on the other hand is excellent in the dark at getting focus in low light. That coupled with getting into portraits left me wanting for something with really shallow depth of field. I could buy into some very expensive .95 aperture primes for the OMD but decided to just use two systems and go to Full Frame.

K-1 was a back and forth. I REALLY like Pentax's control scheme. It's the best in business IMO. I've used Canon/Nikon/Oly/Fuji/Sony body's and Pentax is just easy to live with for the controls. Unfortunately Pentax autofocus just keeps lagging further and further behind over the years. The K-1 is no exception. It's fine if your into just landscape or don't mind pre aiming your action shots. If you want to actively follow a motorcycle or your dog it's sorely lacking. The other factor was I wanted one of the new 150-600mm Telephoto's that have appeared in the last few years and are actually affordable. No more 5000 dollar 600mm. Pentax has no options from Tamron and Sigma yet. Even if they do the AF is not even close for birds in flight etc.

So I ended up with the D750 and a sigma super telephoto and a few other lenses. The G primes are cheap and excellent on the Nikon and the 24-105 that came with it is a great all around lens that bests my previous 16-50. The 750 is nearly noiseless to 12800 which is where I'm at 99% of the time. No regrets whatsoever. The Autofocus just works on anything. The only thing the K3 does better is focus in slightly lower light better by a smidge.

Full Frame competition is fierce and I think the prices will just get driven lower into the premium APS-C bracket. My D750 cost less than my K5 for example (1499). With M43's being so damn good and portable and Full Frame having loads of len options while being about the same portability as APS-C what's the point of APS-C these days?

[richard0170]

I had this same debate with myself last year. I still have my Pentax gear but it's up for sale shortly. Early last year I picked up a OMD EM10ii which grew into a comparable kit to my K3 setup. I basically never picked up the K3 after that. The OMD is really really good for the price and more importantly it's tiny and highly portable. With a full complement of lenses it's nearly as compact as the K3 and just a telephoto. Unfortunately for the OMD, unlike it's very expensive EM1 II it uses contrast detection which is pretty bad at night. The K3 on the other hand is excellent in the dark at getting focus in low light. That coupled with getting into portraits left me wanting for something with really shallow depth of field. I could buy into some very expensive .95 aperture primes for the OMD but decided to just use two systems and go to Full Frame.

K-1 was a back and forth. I REALLY like Pentax's control scheme. It's the best in business IMO. I've used Canon/Nikon/Oly/Fuji/Sony body's and Pentax is just easy to live with for the controls. Unfortunately Pentax autofocus just keeps lagging further and further behind over the years. The K-1 is no exception. It's fine if your into just landscape or don't mind pre aiming your action shots. If you want to actively follow a motorcycle or your dog it's sorely lacking. The other factor was I wanted one of the new 150-600mm Telephoto's that have appeared in the last few years and are actually affordable. No more 5000 dollar 600mm. Pentax has no options from Tamron and Sigma yet. Even if they do the AF is not even close for birds in flight etc.

So I ended up with the D750 and a sigma super telephoto and a few other lenses. The G primes are cheap and excellent on the Nikon and the 24-105 that came with it is a great all around lens that bests my previous 16-50. The 750 is nearly noiseless to 12800 which is where I'm at 99% of the time. No regrets whatsoever. The Autofocus just works on anything. The only thing the K3 does better is focus in slightly lower light better by a smidge.

Full Frame competition is fierce and I think the prices will just get driven lower into the premium APS-C bracket. My D750 cost less than my K5 for example (1499). With M43's being so damn good and portable and Full Frame having loads of len options while being about the same portability as APS-C what's the point of APS-C these days?

I sort of agree with much of this. If and when my K3 dies,and if Pentax does not have a competitive successor, I will probably switch to either M43 of Fuji, because of their form factors and size. When I bought my K3 I was already tempted by them but chose the K3 because I had a lot of legacy glass, and to be honest I am glad I did as I prefer the look of the Pentax colours. However, there a gaps in the Pentax system, especially at the wide angle prime end. Yes I know you can get a couple wide or ultra wide lenses, but they are expensive and I am reluctant to invest in such, if there are no bodies to use them on in a few years time
When I bought the K3 I also considered the Nikon D7200, D750 and Df, as I also have a number of AIs lenses, but did not go with Nikon as I did not like the feel of the cameras compared to the K3. Pentax really hit the ball out of the park with this model in terms of ergonomics.
I can't agree with your assessment of APSC, there are a few compact models out there and they do provide a slight improvement over M43.
For me the problem is with Ricoh. They are not providing enough resource in terms of development and more importantly marketing. Pentax is becoming a forgotten brand under their stewardship. Pentax used to be one of the big 5 and every dealer would stock them. Nowadays few do. Minolta has gone, IMO ruined by Sony's purchase, Olympus nearly went but the good news they managed to be revitalised, so with better ownership, maybe Pentax can thrive in the future

[LeeRunge]

I sort of agree with much of this. If and when my K3 dies,and if Pentax does not have a competitive successor, I will probably switch to either M43 of Fuji, because of their form factors and size. When I bought my K3 I was already tempted by them but chose the K3 because I had a lot of legacy glass, and to be honest I am glad I did as I prefer the look of the Pentax colours. However, there a gaps in the Pentax system, especially at the wide angle prime end. Yes I know you can get a couple wide or ultra wide lenses, but they are expensive and I am reluctant to invest in such, if there are no bodies to use them on in a few years time
When I bought the K3 I also considered the Nikon D7200, D750 and Df, as I also have a number of AIs lenses, but did not go with Nikon as I did not like the feel of the cameras compared to the K3. Pentax really hit the ball out of the park with this model in terms of ergonomics.
I can't agree with your assessment of APSC, there are a few compact models out there and they do provide a slight improvement over M43.
For me the problem is with Ricoh. They are not providing enough resource in terms of development and more importantly marketing. Pentax is becoming a forgotten brand under their stewardship. Pentax used to be one of the big 5 and every dealer would stock them. Nowadays few do. Minolta has gone, IMO ruined by Sony's purchase, Olympus nearly went but the good news they managed to be revitalised, so with better ownership, maybe Pentax can thrive in the future

I do hope Pentax stays around and they need to work on the marketing. Nikon especially seems to be all over giving camera's to the "social influencers" on youtube, instagram etc. Pentax typically is complemented and liked by them but the exposure is minimal. With how good a landscape and stills camera the K-1 is they need to get those in people's hands who are seen by others so people look into the brand.

Pentax has absolutely got to do something with that AF system for the future, it's really lagging behind. Specifically in AF-C. You can get some keepers using it but it's nothing like Nikons. My Australian Shepherds running full speed directly at me can be captured without fuss, something my K-3 is horrible at. Part of it's the focus motor speed on the lenses. They also really need to keep Sigma/Tamron in the loop building them 3rd party lenses. I may have tipped to the K-1 because I really like Pentax had that telephoto I was after been available.

If you want a M43 for travel get it, the EM10ii is @ 500 dollars and the cheap lenses work really well with it, they have a 100 dollar Telephoto that is feather light and produces perfectly reasonable images for example. The camera is so light and easy to carry that it goes everywhere. The Livecomp and Livebulb modes are also extremely good if you want to catch lightning or just do night photography on easy mode. You can watch the exposure in realtime on the rear display. The EM10 is an all metal build and feels like it costs 1000 not 500.

End the end all these cameras are really good and while some do things easier than others, they're tools for jobs. ISO and image quality are excellent on everything these days.

[normhead]

M43's being so damn good and portable and Full Frame having loads of len options while being about the same portability as APS-C what's the point of APS-C these days?

APS_c and FF use the same lenses. When I'm out and about with the K-3 and Tamron 300 extended to 420 with the TC, if my subject is too tight, I can take off the TC, or, I can switch to the K-1. Using APS-c and FF a body switch is the same as a lens change. And that enables me to work much more comfortably with my primes, knowing I've got 2 fields of view for each lens. So in essence, I've got my DFA 100 DA*200 and TC, 300 and 1.7 AF Adapter. With three lenses and two bodies I have 100mm, 140mm, 170mm, 200mm, 280mm, 340mm, 300, 420mm and 510mm with two different fields of view on each body, so effectively 100 mm FF to 750mm FF FoV,

To me, it's great set up that allows me to have glass between 2.8 and ƒ4.5 from 100mm to 750mm equivalent. With all due respect, there just is no equivalent Throw in my 28-105 for use on the K-1 and I have a pretty cool setup. And both the K-1 and K3 have lots of crop room in the final images. I don't mind cropping either down to 12 MP.

The advantage to APS-c / FF. Every lens I've purchased in the last 5 years works on both systems. No other combination has that advantage. Carrying one extra body with no extra lenses gives me 18 prime FoVs instead of 9. Unless your whole 4/3 system weighs less that a K-3, it doesn't even have a weight advantage.

[LeeRunge]

Carrying one extra body with no extra lenses gives me 18 prime FoVs instead of 9. Unless your whole 4/3 system weighs less that a K-3, it doesn't even have a weight advantage.

You could carry an EM1 Mark ii, 12-100 F4 and 100-400 F4-6.3 for a FF eq of 24-800 for the same weight as ONE of your lenses (tamron 300 2.8) or your K3 and K1 with no lenses. You'll lose some DOF and little bit of IQ but gain 121 point AF (phase detect not contrast) with 3d tracking, 6.5 stops IBIS with sync and 18FPS shooting to 148 raws or until the cards fill in JPEG.

[clackers]

You could carry an EM1 Mark ii, 12-100 F4 and 100-400 F4-6.3 for a FF eq of 24-800 for the same weight as ONE of your lenses (tamron 300 2.8) or your K3 and K1 with no lenses. You'll lose some DOF and little bit of IQ but gain 121 point AF (phase detect not contrast) with 3d tracking, 6.5 stops IBIS with sync and 18FPS shooting to 148 raws or until the cards fill in JPEG.

I've been beside several m43 shooters doing wildlife/birding, and at typical settings of f8, 1/1000s, the ISO means the results aren't pretty. Fur and feather textures really get mangled. Throwaways.

But for a daylight sport on an open field like soccer or rugby, sure.

[LeeRunge]

I've been beside several m43 shooters doing wildlife/birding, and at typical settings of f8, 1/1000s, the ISO means the results aren't pretty. Fur and feather textures really get mangled. Throwaways.

But for a daylight sport on an open field like soccer or rugby, sure.

When shot side by side I didn't see much difference in ISO on my K3/EM10. Seems like the OMD shooters should be shooting at F4 to get F8 DOF and gather more light.