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02-25-2018, 02:21 AM   #301
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I got the A7ii and 24-105mm

every brand has their pros and cons. I am sure the pentaxians here will list a million reasons why sony is shit and how my old k70 was and is better than the sony I have changed too. Photography is a long life journey and I am young and must go through my own growing pains and own photography discovery. I liked the look and feel of the a7ii and I definitively like whats up the chain like the a9 and a7riii. When I looked at full frame options I looked at the k1 and decided it wasnt the upgrade I wanted. It's the same reason I didn't look at the sony apsc cameras. I had a great apsc camera already. I feel now making the switch to be less loyal to any one brand. I think you get stuck thinking you need or want to be a pentaxian and live and die by the brand. Maybe I shoot sony for a while and come back or maybe Canon will come out with the next future of the camera and will hop there for a bit. Maybe cellphones will get so good that I may drop the whole slr system for a while. Just feels good to not feel guilty about trying something else, I know the pentax group will defend the brand till its death.

02-25-2018, 02:40 AM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
The lenses should be with you over the span of many cameras and if you get the best from the start, upgrading to better sensors will not be an issue.
Yes. that's true but the jump from 12 to 16-24 mpx (where average lenses look quite good) does not equal the jump from 16-24 to 36-42 mpx . With this resolving power you'll notice every lenses weakness. On a 36-42 mpx camera, good lenses seem inadequate, so excellent lenses ( those for FF) are the choice. So the question: who is going to take adequate lens in the first place? For sure not people coming from Apsc with lenses optimized for APSC that take average FF lenses. Neither people coming from 12-24 mpx FF (Nikon shooters) because simply you don't know how huge the jump is before opening (raw) files in your desktop. This point is complicated by the fact that also exotic F/1.4 lenses from OEM show thier weaknesses with 36-42 mpx (formally the best you can buy with Nikon, for exemple) and the fact that zooms does not perform any better than in 24 mpx, If people swiitch brand for the newest 36-42-50 mpx camera, they need to be prepared for a lot of effort in the jump because , from what I see with d800: 1- you loose the very useful features Pentax offers in their camera; 2- Lens selection includes very expensive lenses - just primes for ultimate quality. 3- From 36 mpx on you're in the field of specialized cameras (if your intended uses do not include printing big with visible microblur) so you have to accept some limitation. 4- As for picture controls in camera, Pentax has the best possible user interface and control panel. Nikkon is a world worse because despite having a special desktop software to manage picture control presets, the in-camera controls are very limited.
02-25-2018, 03:00 AM - 2 Likes   #303
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QuoteOriginally posted by following.eric Quote
I got the A7ii and 24-105mm
A good choice, you are used to 24mp images but have a bigger sensor to catch more light,that lens has a good reputation.

So now you need to buy 3 extra batterys, take a foreign language course to understand the menu AND not shoot in wet or dusty conditions!..ha ha

On the plus side, speedbooster/focal reducers are there to adapt with...AF adapters for just about any mount.

AS WELL AS, now you are relegated to down the bottom of the page( in the dungeon) where all the other $$$onyites hang out!
02-25-2018, 03:26 AM - 1 Like   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by following.eric Quote
I got the A7ii and 24-105mm

every brand has their pros and cons. I am sure the pentaxians here will list a million reasons why sony is shit and how my old k70 was and is better than the sony I have changed too. Photography is a long life journey and I am young and must go through my own growing pains and own photography discovery. I liked the look and feel of the a7ii and I definitively like whats up the chain like the a9 and a7riii. When I looked at full frame options I looked at the k1 and decided it wasnt the upgrade I wanted. It's the same reason I didn't look at the sony apsc cameras. I had a great apsc camera already. I feel now making the switch to be less loyal to any one brand. I think you get stuck thinking you need or want to be a pentaxian and live and die by the brand. Maybe I shoot sony for a while and come back or maybe Canon will come out with the next future of the camera and will hop there for a bit. Maybe cellphones will get so good that I may drop the whole slr system for a while. Just feels good to not feel guilty about trying something else, I know the pentax group will defend the brand till its death.
Live and let live, not?

People who shoot with Pentax cameras, for the most part are pleased with their choices -- the same is true for most other camera brands too. Pentaxians will defend their choice, but you wouldn't find any different on a Sony Forum -- people here are trying to figure out how to make their gear work for them, not help folks switch to other brands. There are benefits to shooting Pentax cameras, but there are benefits to Sony and Sony works for you, so I wouldn't worry about what anyone else thinks. Hopefully you are able to create the images you want to with the gear you have.

I stay with Pentax for the glass, which I find to be very nice. Over time, I have accumulated a lot of nice lenses and I know how they work and get good results with them. I like Pentax ergonomics and can figure out a new camera in short order. Regardless, good luck with your A7 II.

02-25-2018, 03:42 AM   #305
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To people who want to make a switch, do so. I like what I have and no one will have to tell me what I'll use. If you believe you're not happy with Pentax, shift. You have to like what you have to enjoy this hobby. And, You don't have to justify your move. Be at peace with yourself. Enjoy your new equipment and best if luck.
02-25-2018, 03:45 AM - 1 Like   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by following.eric Quote
I got the A7ii and 24-105mm

every brand has their pros and cons. I am sure the pentaxians here will list a million reasons why sony is shit and how my old k70 was and is better than the sony I have changed too. Photography is a long life journey and I am young and must go through my own growing pains and own photography discovery. I liked the look and feel of the a7ii and I definitively like whats up the chain like the a9 and a7riii. When I looked at full frame options I looked at the k1 and decided it wasnt the upgrade I wanted. It's the same reason I didn't look at the sony apsc cameras. I had a great apsc camera already. I feel now making the switch to be less loyal to any one brand. I think you get stuck thinking you need or want to be a pentaxian and live and die by the brand. Maybe I shoot sony for a while and come back or maybe Canon will come out with the next future of the camera and will hop there for a bit. Maybe cellphones will get so good that I may drop the whole slr system for a while. Just feels good to not feel guilty about trying something else, I know the pentax group will defend the brand till its death.
I totally second @Rondec (Edit: - and @totsmuyco) - a lot of folks here shoot Pentax because that is what suits their needs but totally recognise that Pentax doesn't suit everybody's needs and wish those whose needs are better served by another brand well. But of course, as he says, attack people and they will defend themselves, attack their brand of choice or trumpet the virtues of another brand in a way that seems to demean their choice of brand and you attack them, as you are attacking their decision making. Be reasonable, and people here are very reasonable and helpful and well-wishing to you whatever your choice of camera - we are actually people who love photography and/or the tools of the trade, not irrational brand fans.
02-25-2018, 04:27 AM   #307
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
A good choice, you are used to 24mp images but have a bigger sensor to catch more light,that lens has a good reputation.

So now you need to buy 3 extra batterys, take a foreign language course to understand the menu AND not shoot in wet or dusty conditions!..ha ha

On the plus side, speedbooster/focal reducers are there to adapt with...AF adapters for just about any mount.

AS WELL AS, now you are relegated to down the bottom of the page( in the dungeon) where all the other $$$onyites hang out!
Im not too worried about losing the weather sealed aspect of the body as my previous sigma lens was not weather resistant anyways and honestly not a huge fan of shooting the rain. And with only one lens I won't be changing lenses so dust doesn't concern me to much.

I've played with the menu and it doesn't bother me. I heard all about it but too me the layout is similar to pentax. All menus look the same too me. I'm excited to play around with the eye again well.

My membership expires at the end of the month so off to the bottom no one cares forums now

02-25-2018, 05:27 AM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
I totally second @Rondec (Edit: - and @totsmuyco) - a lot of folks here shoot Pentax because that is what suits their needs but totally recognise that Pentax doesn't suit everybody's needs and wish those whose needs are better served by another brand well. But of course, as he says, attack people and they will defend themselves, attack their brand of choice or trumpet the virtues of another brand in a way that seems to demean their choice of brand and you attack them, as you are attacking their decision making. Be reasonable, and people here are very reasonable and helpful and well-wishing to you whatever your choice of camera - we are actually people who love photography and/or the tools of the trade, not irrational brand fans.
That's the whole point. We respect their decision and they should respect ours. No bashing.
02-25-2018, 05:42 AM   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
I totally second @Rondec (Edit: - and @totsmuyco) - a lot of folks here shoot Pentax because that is what suits their needs but totally recognise that Pentax doesn't suit everybody's needs and wish those whose needs are better served by another brand well. But of course, as he says, attack people and they will defend themselves, attack their brand of choice or trumpet the virtues of another brand in a way that seems to demean their choice of brand and you attack them, as you are attacking their decision making. Be reasonable, and people here are very reasonable and helpful and well-wishing to you whatever your choice of camera - we are actually people who love photography and/or the tools of the trade, not irrational brand fans.
Very much so. The interesting threads to me are the ones that feature images, not the ones where people argue about the benefits of x lens over y camera. We have it really good these days, with few bad lenses out there and camera bodies that perform amazingly well compared to the digital and film bodies of even six or seven years ago.

Growing as a photographer requires enhancement of vision, more than enhancement of gear.
02-25-2018, 06:26 AM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Can i ask exactly what you mean please?
The OP had written that the K-1 II showed that Pentax had made "no progress" and I felt that was overstated. As the OP switched to Sony as a company that shows progress, saying the K-1 to K-1 II was not progress was like saying the Sony A7RII to A7RIII was not progress either.....but I disagreed.

Yes, the improvements were small, but it was still progress: more AF points, higher res viewfinder, touchscreen, double the fps, two memory card slots, USB 3, improved battery life, etc, but they are improvements other than a bigger and heavier camera. Was that upgrade enough for Sony users to drop another $3k plus for the III? I donʻt think so, but it was a two year ʻrefreshʻ so that anyone considering a Sony has a camera with 2017 tech and not 2015 tech specs.

The jury is still out on the K-1 II until it is actually tested, but at this point I have no reason not to believe that the modifications are improvements and that perhaps, a FF K-2 was not released because there is a new flagship APS-C overdue that Iʻm assuming is getting more resources from Ricoh. And as many have also stated, there is probably a greater demand for new FF lenses than a K-1 replacement.
02-25-2018, 06:31 AM   #311
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I've just skimmed through this thread and here in Canada when it comes to switching from Pentax to another brand is quickly becoming a necessity rather than a choice. In the past year or so Ricoh has all but abandoned the Canadian market as retailers are no longer stocking current and new Pentax equipment. Retailers will order Pentax equipment but with some enforcing a "You Ordered, You Own It" return/refund policy it takes a lot of research and a major leap of faith in making the decision to make the purchase.
02-25-2018, 06:53 AM   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by NS_Sailor Quote
I've just skimmed through this thread and here in Canada when it comes to switching from Pentax to another brand is quickly becoming a necessity rather than a choice. In the past year or so Ricoh has all but abandoned the Canadian market as retailers are no longer stocking current and new Pentax equipment. Retailers will order Pentax equipment but with some enforcing a "You Ordered, You Own It" return/refund policy it takes a lot of research and a major leap of faith in making the decision to make the purchase.
I live in a town 300 km from the nearest store that ever carried Pentax. It's always been like that for me. SO, no change. I haven't bought a Pentax camera or lens in a store since my Program Plus, in 1989.
02-25-2018, 06:53 AM - 1 Like   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by NS_Sailor Quote
in Canada when it comes to switching from Pentax to another brand is quickly becoming a necessity rather than a choice. In the past year or so Ricoh has all but abandoned the Canadian market as retailers are no longer stocking current and new Pentax equipment.
And where I live, and I believe this is a trend worldwide, buying online is becoming a necessity rather than a choice. I donʻt like it, but it takes huge resources for Canikony to stock demos and fill inventories at brick and mortars stores globally. Retailers also donʻt want to give up shelf space if they perceive 90% are looking to buy a Canikony and they canʻt afford to compete with online prices for Pentax.

I see it as a "Catch-22". Iʻve been pushing one of our local retailers to carry Pentax (because I believe more students will buy Pentax if it were carried locally), but the owner claims Ricoh makes it more difficult to become an authorized dealer, more than any other brand he carries. Is it incompetence? Or is it by design that they only want to work with a few select mega-retailers? Or is the local owner not being truthful because he doesnʻt want to take a risk on the minority brand?

So ultimately, I think we all agree it is one of the cons for Pentax. Does that con outweigh the good? For me, itʻs only an annoyance.
02-25-2018, 07:01 AM   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by NS_Sailor Quote
I've just skimmed through this thread and here in Canada when it comes to switching from Pentax to another brand is quickly becoming a necessity rather than a choice. In the past year or so Ricoh has all but abandoned the Canadian market as retailers are no longer stocking current and new Pentax equipment.
This is exactly what happened in Italy, unfortunately. That's silly because it's obvious that for most photographers out there Pentax products have much more quality and features than the competition. When people bash Pentax for poor lense choice, for example, they don't recognize that 3party (i.e. Sigma, Zeiss, Tokina) manufacturers produce lenses that surpass the original manufacturer' ones esp. for those FF 36-42 mpx range. So, many people use Sigma 1.4 primes with Nikon mount instead of the original ones. But the main strenght of , say, Nikon, is that there's a market also for lenses that do not perform good on the higher mpx sensors , having Nikon a line of 24 mpx FF (lenses could be used for sony via adapters too). But very few people thinks about swithching brand for the sistem itself.
02-25-2018, 07:05 AM   #315
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
And where I live, and I believe this is a trend worldwide, buying online is becoming a necessity rather than a choice. I donʻt like it, but it takes huge resources for Canikony to stock demos and fill inventories at brick and mortars stores globally. Retailers also donʻt want to give up shelf space if they perceive 90% are looking to buy a Canikony and they canʻt afford to compete with online prices for Pentax.

I see it as a "Catch-22". Iʻve been pushing one of our local retailers to carry Pentax (because I believe more students will buy Pentax if it were carried locally), but the owner claims Ricoh makes it more difficult to become an authorized dealer, more than any other brand he carries. Is it incompetence? Or is it by design that they only want to work with a few select mega-retailers? Or is the local owner not being truthful because he doesnʻt want to take a risk on the minority brand?

So ultimately, I think we all agree it is one of the cons for Pentax. Does that con outweigh the good? For me, itʻs only an annoyance.

This happened because back when Pentax was in the stores, so many store salesmen were constantly steering users away from Pentax. Trained Nikon and Canon salesmen were essentially working in most stores. Pentax cannot increase market share by putting product in these stores. What the salesmen didn't tell you is both Nikon and Canon subsidize sales space in the stores. Pentax ended that practice for the above mentioned reason. "You take our money but you don't sell our product." This is complete dishonesty on the part of store owners.

You have to be careful who you trust. As a lesser known brand, Pentax need salesmen committed to understanding the brand. What Pentax learned is, if you don't have money to bribe owners, you won't get a fair shake in the retail market. Clearly given market share, that's not a battle Pentax is going to win. So Pentax puts up some hurdles before they put their gear in your store.

As for not getting business from Pentax users, the store owners brought that on themselves. Don't be feeling sorry for them. Sony used to have Sony stores maybe they still do. They didn't do all that well because people want to compare brands. Camera stores want to create the illusion of choice, but most carry only a few brands. They just don't label themselves as such. In reality, my closest store should be labelled a Nikon Store. They have a lot of brand names on their sign, to pull customers on the street, but really, if you are not a Nikon user they have nothing for you.

And that really hurts them. They had a K-1 in for a while. I would have bought it from them, but I didn't know they had it and didn't think to check there. And that's because of last 5 times I went in and asked if they had any Pentax gear that might be of interest they said no. Then they bring in a K-1 and wonder why they can't sell it.

Like most of the retail world Camera stores are under increasing stress from pass through internet retailers. Retailers who order their gear from Pentax after you've placed an order with them. They don't actually have inventory except for a few select hot selling items. And they cheerfully ad, "but we can order whatever you want." Well these days, I can order whatever I want, I don't need you for that.

IN defence of the store owners, I have also worked in computer sales in Windsor Ontario, right across the Detroit River from Detroit, and because of a $200 difference in prices U.S. to Canda, people would come into our store, ask me to set up package for them, go and buy everything on my list across the river, then come to me when they had problems with their equipment. " I didn't sell you this equipment, I'm under no obligation to help you with it. We service what we sell. But if you come and do some house cleaning and laundry as fair trade for my time, I'll help you out." People who think they can scam the system are thinking extremely short term. Sometimes consumers are their own worst enemy.

Last edited by normhead; 02-25-2018 at 07:34 AM.
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