[mee]

If we consider the next lenses to be released in K mount, Pentax is offering premium, fast products with high resolving power. Meaning: Expect LARGER pixel count in the next FF body. 42? 46? 46.5982 million pixels? I don't know precisely, but it does seem obvious they are designing lenses to be used on very high resolution cameras to output very high quality images.

So I'd expect the K-1 successor to be priced a bit higher, the K-1 to take a price cut and stick around as a 'low end' FF body. Similar to how the D810 is still sold even though the D850 (its successor) is out in Nikonland.

[Jeff Lopez]

Mee has a good point there..it would seem that Pentax has no intentions of developing specific apcs lenses.
The problem is the K1..Adam and Biz suggested that, if there would be a K1 succesor with better specs, the K1 falls back, but do you really think the K1 will have a price cut?
This would work for the Pentax club, but that's not Ricoh's demographic target. They might want to sell to new outsiders, which are still on the edge of the fence.
So, you have a soccer dad smartphone wizard who wants to buy a FF, just because he was "perceptionized" for FF to be the greatest thing, and he doesnt know or care about pixel shifting or gps, he's sold for that lovely huge OVF. And you, as a salesman, hands him a K1. What would be the outcome of that?
As you see by above comments, there is a desire for a smaller and less complicated FF camera, and at the right price, it will sell.
The Canon 6D sold thousands, and still does, yet its a very basic FF..

[normhead]

Mee has a good point there..it would seem that Pentax has no intentions of developing specific apcs lenses.

Pentax already has the largest line-up of APS-c lenses of any manufacturer and just announced the DA* 11-18. That FL was the one hole in the Pentax APS-c line-up in terms of DA* glass. Let us know when everyone else catches up and then we'll worry.

The problem is the K1..Adam and Biz suggested that, if there would be a K1 succesor with better specs, the K1 falls back, but do you really think the K1 will have a price cut?

Every other Pentax camera has, why wouldn't the K-1?

So, you have a soccer dad smartphone wizard who wants to buy a FF, just because he was "perceptionized" for FF to be the greatest thing, and he doesnt know or care about pixel shifting or gps, he's sold for that lovely huge OVF. And you, as a salesman, hands him a K1. What would be the outcome of that?

You say that as if you think you know the answer, but you aren't telling us.
Personally I'm not biting. There have been a lot of K-1s sold. Within a couple weeks of them coming out they'd sold 10 and had 10 more ordered amongst the two stores I polled. Clearly salesmen handing customers K-1s and they we're walking out of the stores with them. It took a couple of weeks before we even found a forum user who had held one and not bought it.

As you see by above comments, there is a desire for a smaller and less complicated FF camera, and at the right price, it will sell.
The Canon 6D sold thousands, and still does, yet its a very basic FF..

Why in heaven's name would you buy a 6D when you can buy a K-1 for pretty much the same money? The K-1 can be as simple as you want it to be. Just don't access the features you don't want. Set it on manual and do it all or set it on auto. The logic here escapes me. Is there something I don't know about the 6D, like that it's basically featureless and for that reason very easy to use?

The Canon 6D mkII at Henry's is $2599 CAD
K-1 $2399

No IBIS, 11 point AF instead of 33, ISO 100-40,000 and 26 MP instead of 100-204,000 ISO and 26, Are you talking about simplicity, or lack of specs and technology, The two are different things.

Have you actually talked to a user tha says the 6D is easier to use? Like some user who's so stupid he couldn't put the camera in Auto mode , AF.s and just go shoot?

Not having IBIS makes it easier to use? Really?

Maybe you have a point and just didn't explain it very well. Or maybe you've never actually used a 6D or a K-1. It could be a lot of things I guess. But it' not that a 6D is good value compared to a K-1. That's definitely not it..

I used to think about like you. The K-1 is way more than I thought Pentax could come up with, at a much lower price, my guess was $500 higher and more basic features. As a K-1 owner, buying a 6D would feel like a rip off.

[monochrome]

It never occurs to me that I might pay less for a K-1/2.

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Last edited by monochrome; 11-16-2017 at 08:54 PM.

[surfar]

Ive always maintained the K-1 as the entry model,its the basic FF...its higher specd[on the outside} cousin is the K-1 silver.They do the basics very well.

RI wont be going backwards,the successor to the entry level FF will probably come in 2019ish(just a guess)but could be announced next year.

The big mystery is which sensor?Will it be from Sony or another source???

Expect better video,more MPs and FASTer AF and few surprise bells that whistle,OH and a higher price!....U$ 2000-2500ish,with the entry model scaling back to U$14-1500ish.

K-1mk2 will undercut CaNikony by a fair margin but will match or surpass them in many aspects.

For those that want FF 24mp theres other brands,with $ony having the ability to use Kmounts with a variety of manual and auto adapters now.

24mp is nice on Aps-c....FF is 36+ for stills.

It never occurs to me that I might pay less for a K-1/2.

You wont have to pay, its not going to happen.

[Fenwoodian]

Autofocus just kidding!

Autofocus - NOT KIDDING!

Pentax could admit they can't compete on AF with Sony, Nikon, and Canon - so just get rid of AF, reduce the price of cameras, and go retro. KISS, simplify, release an all-manual high-res digital camera. It would be perfect for me. No need for a 300 page instruction manual and dozens of features that most will never use. All it would need are dials for: shutter, aperture, iso, and exposure compensation. Simple, eligant, light, and bullet-proof. Customer interchangeable sensors - 16, 24, 36, 50MP.

[gm4life]

Pentax already has the largest line-up of APS-c lenses of any manufacturer and just announced the DA* 11-18. That FL was the one hole in the Pentax APS-c line-up in terms of DA* glass. Let us know when everyone else catches up and then we'll worry.

Yes. Truer words were never spoken. Pentax has an awesome line of APS-C glass other companies wished they had. The DA * glass I have I love, just because the lens has SMC coating and not HD and the SDM motor and not DC or PLM and were released several years ago doesn’t make the optics any less impressive. Plus they have awesome new D FA * you can use too. I can’t wait for the new 11-18 DA * it will FIND a place in my bag!

[jatrax]

Mee has a good point there..it would seem that Pentax has no intentions of developing specific apcs lenses.

Wait, hold on there, Pentax just announced yet another SPECIFIC APS-C lens the DA*11-18. And they already have an extensive APS-C catalog. Not sure where you get the "no intention of developing specific APS-C lenses" FUD but you are wrong.

You seem to think that everyone is going to or already does want a FF camera. I fail to see anything that would indicate that. APS-C is still going strong and Pentax has an exceptional APS-C line up already.

[pakinjapan]

Pentax just announced yet another SPECIFIC APS-C lens the DA*11-18.

Yeah, to me, it is a very clear commitment from Pentax too. I am looking forward to see it in CP+ 2018.

[mee]

Mee has a good point there..it would seem that Pentax has no intentions of developing specific apcs lenses.
The problem is the K1..Adam and Biz suggested that, if there would be a K1 succesor with better specs, the K1 falls back, but do you really think the K1 will have a price cut?

It will be older technology decreasing in value.. there is a long term precedent of this occurring.

D810 has lowered in price.. even though Nikon still sells them. 5dIII is lower in price even though Canon still sells them.. and by sell them I mean still in stock in retail shops.

This is a lower cost way of padding your camera lineup.. since the hardware is already designed and produced.. just sell it for a lower price and call it another tier of product. But I expect it to be in the 1400-1500 dollar range by this time next year IF they offer a new FF by then. Otherwise yeah the price should stay pretty much in line to where it is now until another FF is released.

Of course they could always just play the bundle game.. they have been doing that for the past few years on crop... instead of dramatic price cuts, offer more items with the camera at the retail price.

That said I expect the K-1 to be in the lineup as the top tier until 2019 at the earliest. I think next year we see crop flagship and maybe a new 645Z replacement. ohh.. and a couple D-FAs. 2019 MAYBE a FF replacement body..

But I don't think Ricoh has the resources to offer a no frills FF body even if they wanted to ( and again from the lens roadmap I don't think they want to).. Canon does since they own something like 40-50% of the DSLR market. Pentax is around 5-6%.. so different lineup and quantity of products in that lineup.

[biz-engineer]

Pentax could admit they can't compete on AF with Sony, Nikon, and Canon - so just get rid of AF, reduce the price of cameras, and go retro.

In that case they'd fit a split focusing screen in a retro version for manual focus lenses, there is a (small) market for it. Actually, I believe such model would sell much more than K1 silver... Silver finished , IMO isn't a very strong unique selling point. A very good manual focus system would trigger a new of buy, especially by owners if legacy glass and also new manual focus glass such as Samyang and others.

[leekil]

The previous lower-cost camera model was to give them lower specs with 1) 12-bit RAWs 2) plastic bodies 3) not weather-sealed. But aren't all bodies weather-sealed now, and starting with the KP (?) 14-bit raws; not sure about #2?

[D1N0]

and starting with the KP (?) 14-bit raws

The K-70 also has 14 bits raw.

[adjutant]

Yes. Truer words were never spoken. Pentax has an awesome line of APS-C glass other companies wished they had.

I'm curious how Fujifilm APS-C compares, since they're fully committed to APS-C. (I don't consider medium format as being a slice of the same segment as aps-c and full frame are.)

[dafbp]

Will the price of the K1 go down if they launch a new APSC, which will cost more than [launch] KP, and (hopefully) less than [launch] K1? Not likely, even though it's gone up more than a little since launch.
Or they could launch a new APS and drop the K1 price close to it to atract customers to FF (expensive glass buyers, yummy).
A lower spec K1 wouldn't attract many APS buyers, whereas a new APS... And FF buyers already expect to pay a lot more than the K1 costs, so why bother offering less?


How much does an AF system cost vs the whole camera? Even if they'd just remove the motor and electronics, and keep everything else [to minimize costs], you'd still still need new firmware/testing/assembly line adaptations,etc..
What is the size of that niche market? Enough to pay for that work, on a camera that'd have to be cheaper?
They need to expect volume (new APS) or margin (???) to commit. This option doesn't look like it'd fit either condition.


A price drop to adapt to loss of novelty is all I expect. It keeps up with much more expensive competition (in IQ at least), so that would be the prime reason, especially since the [uninformed] buyers will probably associate age (1 year?) with lower performance. That would make it a high spec entry level FF (sounds strange).