[surfar]

I will always say the same: you can shoot weddings with any full frame camera released in the last 4-6 years,

Some will say that it can be done with Apsc as well.

Yet, I haven't seen:
- pro sport photographers shooting with D500/7D Mark II at big sports events

Yes, they avoided the big events you went to!...One of the TOP pros in Orstralia who shoots cycling events uses a D500,his landscape camera is a D810(well they were what he was using early last year).

- pro wedding photographers shooting weddings with D610/6D

Well, what about a 5D?,yes the first edition...my friend has done 1500 weddings,some were film but plenty were with a 5D.She replaced it after 12 years with a 6D(first edition),it does the job at WEDDINGS!

[Dan Rentea]

Some will say that it can be done with Apsc as well.

Of course. But would you go to 20-30 weddings like these each year (these are romanian weddings for example) with a K3 or K1 knowing that there are better cameras out there? Remember that you invest in a system that will pay for the next 3-5 years of weddings. Those 2-4.000$ saving in costs worth the effort of dealing with inadequate gear? And you haven't seen the romanian churches.

Bride and groom dance

You Tube

You Tube

Traditional romanian dance (one of them)

You Tube

You Tube

[surfar]

OH,...Romanian weddings!...you should have mentioned that, our Orstralian ones are out in the backyard, Snags on the Barby,Tarp over the Hills Hoist in case it rains!

---------- Post added 05-10-18 at 07:58 PM ----------

a K3 or K1 knowing that there are better cameras out there

Well,there are better cameras released each year.Its entirely up to the individual on what gear they can do the job with.

I dont like weddings myself and only go if i have to,i suppose someone has to take the photos depending on the requirements of the married couple and their families.

A new trend in weddings is to tell all the guesst to take their phones and shoot photos and video...then send it to the couple.Dont know if the guests get paid for that.

[Dan Rentea]

OH,...Romanian weddings!...you should have mentioned that, our Orstralian ones are out in the backyard, Snags on the Barby,Tarp over the Hills Hoist in case it rains!

The Pro romanian photographers I know shoot weddings all over the world (Europe mostly, but they have weddings outside Europe as well). I gave an example of such photographer a few comments back. 5 and a half years ago (if I remember correctly the interview with him) he started his business as a wedding photographer. Now he has his own wedding workshops all over Europe and he has all sorts of clients, not only romanian, so he has to be prepared for any kind of situation.

---------- Post added 05-10-18 at 09:38 AM ----------

Well,there are better cameras released each year.Its entirely up to the individual on what gear they can do the job with.

If you go back to my first comment, you will see that my recommandation to the OP was to try and rent before buying the cameras that he is interested in. It's hard to convince someone who hasn't shoot with other cameras other than Pentax, or Canon, or Nikon that there are options that suit better the type of photography that he's interested in. It's easier to invest from the beginning in proper gear than trying to jump the boat after you already spent 8.000-10.000$ in gear.

---

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 05-10-2018 at 02:38 AM.

[builttospill]

First time you said that 5D Mark IV has horrible noise and sloppy af, I thought that you are joking. But you are not. Can you please post some of your Canon images so that we can see for ourself how horrible is that noise?

This is quite a nice comparation. The only problem is that I shoot anywhere except in the lab, like DPreview or DXO. If you want to prove something to the ones that are not familiar with the quality of Pentax cameras, the best and correct way is to post your images, as Normhead and others do. Then we have something to talk about. You posted 3 portraits a few comments back, one of them taken with K1 and a zoom lens. I don't know that lens and you forgot to mention if that lens is a mediocre one or not, but regarding the afirmation of yours that a mediocre lens will produce mediocre results, let me ask you something: who is responsable for mediocre results, the gear or the photographer? Allow me to give you my opinion. As long as you know the limitations of your gear and as soon as you stop blaming the gear you have, the mediocre images will disappear like magic. With a mediocre lens sometimes you have to work a little harder to get the images you want, that's all.

If you consider that Canon 85mm f1.8 (it costs 250$) or Sigma/Tamron 150-600mm (second hand can be bought under 800$) are mediocre lenses, let me know. I have some mediocre images to show you.

...As a professional photographer, you are also responsible for having the tools that allows you to concentrate at capturing those moments and not getting worry that the gear you have will make you work harder.

It's been a few days since I've been able to check in here, I've been busy taking pictures .

As a photography professor at the university I have access to just about any gear I want, but I choose to use my K-1 over all of it. The K-1, and Pentax in general, meet more of my shooting needs than any other system. I've considered switching to Nikon's D5, but they don't have the FA Limited lenses and the lab tests I posted earlier don't give me a reason to. I don't care much for lab tests either, because I don't make a habit of shooting brick walls. That's why I posted real-world examples first, then went to lab tests second.

I respectfully disagree with you regarding showcasing images by posting them online, where we can view them on our phone or a monitor. Most of us know this is no replacement for large prints. If I really want to test equipment, I rent it, borrow it from a colleague, or check it out from the university. Real-world shooting beats viewing images online any day. It's 2018. Just about every brand with a kit lens will produce a adequate image when viewed on a mobile device's screen. I've never blamed my gear for any of my photographic shortcomings. None of the FA* lenses are mediocre, which is what I used on the K-1 in one of the three images. A discussion about knowing the limitations of our gear shouldn't even occur between you and me; that's for beginners and weekend warriors. I'm familiar with some of your work, and it's very impressive. I mentioned choosing the right tool for the right job earlier, and I make a full-time living with my photography. I've never considered the Canon 85 mediocre, and never said so. I wasn't a fan of the 150-600 so I chose the Pentax 250-600 instead. Having experience with both lenses, I'm happy with my choice. That said, both lenses can do the job. If I own a mediocre kit lens and a high-end lens, I can get good results with both, but I'm leaving the kit lens behind every time. Because I get better results with better lenses, every time.

...Sure, there are a lot of photographers who shoot weddings with APS-C cameras. The sky is the limit.

If someone is asking me if Pentax K1 is good for weddings, I will always say the same: you can shoot weddings with any full frame camera released in the last 4-6 years...

Wait? What? A full frame camera certainly offers some advantages over APS-C cameras, but investing in lenses will make a greater impact on photography than investing in a newer camera body or moving from APS-C to FF. Personally I prefer a FF, but there's nothing stopping professional wedding photographers from getting great results from an APS-C.

Yet, I haven't seen:
- pro sport photographers shooting with D500/7D Mark II at big sports events
- pro wedding photographers shooting weddings with D610/6D
- pro wildlife photographers shooting with D750/5D Mark III

Sure, you can get good results with any camera. 300mm + thread is an example. That doesn't mean that K1 is an action camera.

The 6D is a great example of sloppy AF. It has the same AF system as the Rebels up to the T6. As I mentioned earlier, the dual-pixel AF system Canon has been putting into more cameras has been a substantial upgrade in focus accuracy.

The OP isn't asking about an action camera for sports for fast-moving subjects, they are asking about Pentax for weddings and portraits.

If you go back to my first comment, you will see that my recommandation to the OP was to try and rent before buying the cameras that he is interested in. It's hard to convince someone who hasn't shoot with other cameras other than Pentax, or Canon, or Nikon that there are options that suit better the type of photography that he's interested in. It's easier to invest from the beginning in proper gear than trying to jump the boat after you already spent 8.000-10.000$ in gear.

^This. This is sound advice.

[surfar]

The 6D is a great example of sloppy AF. It has the same AF system as the Rebels up to the T6

Is it bad?

Ive used my daughters rebel,seems ok...and a friends,its the model before hers 550/650D Ozzie/Asian models.My friend shoots a 6D professionally and she does weddings and events.

[str8talk83]

Is it bad?

Ive used my daughters rebel,seems ok...and a friends,its the model before hers 550/650D Ozzie/Asian models.My friend shoots a 6D professionally and she does weddings and events.

I would say that everything is a matter of perspective. The 6D focusing system is significantly worse than the system used in the 7D, 7D Mark II, 5D mark III and 5D mark IV. It's similar to the earlier 5D series cameras. I believe that it could be used for professional use in the right hands, but was intentionally crippled by Canon to encourage people to buy the higher end models.

[surfar]

but was intentionally crippled by Canon

When did their dual pixel AF come in?

They are apparently working on a Quad pixel system at present,so the rumour sites are sprouting.

[builttospill]

When did their dual pixel AF come in?

They are apparently working on a Quad pixel system at present,so the rumour sites are sprouting.

Dual pixel AF was introduced in the 5D mk iv, 6D mk ii, 80D, and Rebel T7. It wasn't available on models before those.

Str8 is correct. Canon intentionally crippled the AF in the 6D to encourage discerning customers to buy the 5D series. The 6D was groundbreaking in some areas, but the AF system is identical to the Rebel series DSLRs, disappointing many who wanted a FF upgrade.

The 6D has 11 AF points, with only the center being cross-type at f/5.6. (The 6D mk ii has 45 AF points, all cross-type.) The K10D from 2006 has 11 AF points, 9 of them cross-type. The K-1 has 33, 25 of them cross-type. Cross-type focus points really help with AF accuracy.

[Dan Rentea]

As a photography professor at the university I have access to just about any gear I want, but I choose to use my K-1 over all of it. The K-1, and Pentax in general, meet more of my shooting needs than any other system. I've considered switching to Nikon's D5, but they don't have the FA Limited lenses and the lab tests I posted earlier don't give me a reason to. I don't care much for lab tests either, because I don't make a habit of shooting brick walls. That's why I posted real-world examples first, then went to lab tests second.

FA Limited lenses offer a distinct bokeh to images, but most of them are slow to focus, not the sharpest ones when shooting with them at the widest aperture and they have chromatic aberrations (quite bad some of them). I'm not considering FA Limited lenses as good lenses for weddings, at least not compared with the new Pentax zoom lenses. For street or for portraits on the other hand those FA Limited lenses will give some interesting results.

I respectfully disagree with you regarding showcasing images by posting them online, where we can view them on our phone or a monitor. Most of us know this is no replacement for large prints. If I really want to test equipment, I rent it, borrow it from a colleague, or check it out from the university. Real-world shooting beats viewing images online any day. It's 2018. Just about every brand with a kit lens will produce a adequate image when viewed on a mobile device's screen. I've never blamed my gear for any of my photographic shortcomings. None of the FA* lenses are mediocre, which is what I used on the K-1 in one of the three images.

Oh, but there are lots of benefits by posting images online. We can see:
- composition
- editing skills
- if the image was cropped or not by looking at the DOF, knowing also what lens was used
- the shooting conditions and which settings were applied if we have the exif (I can post an image taken at ISO 10.000 with almost no noise and I can post the same image taken at ISO 1000 with visible noise; all I changed was the shutter speed and the light I put on the model)
- if the photographer is an experienced one because sometimes turning the odds his favor can be spotted by looking at images
- etc.

And we can always print images if you provide the raw files of your test so that we can see for ourselves the quality of the noise. Proving the fact that the af from one camera is better than the one from other camera can be time consuming, but when comes to noise at high ISO... 2 tripods, 2 cameras with similar lenses (24-70mm let's say because all systems have this lens) and a dark room with mixed light is enough. And you have the cameras at your disposal.

A discussion about knowing the limitations of our gear shouldn't even occur between you and me; that's for beginners and weekend warriors. I'm familiar with some of your work, and it's very impressive. I mentioned choosing the right tool for the right job earlier, and I make a full-time living with my photography. I've never considered the Canon 85 mediocre, and never said so. I wasn't a fan of the 150-600 so I chose the Pentax 250-600 instead. Having experience with both lenses, I'm happy with my choice. That said, both lenses can do the job. If I own a mediocre kit lens and a high-end lens, I can get good results with both, but I'm leaving the kit lens behind every time. Because I get better results with better lenses, every time.

Let me say thank you first and continue by telling you that I'm not attacking anyone here. If we were face to face you would realise that I love to talk about photography and I shoot with anything I can put my hands on. I spend more than what K1 Mark II costs in renting gear from Fuji, Sony, etc. because I love how technology evolves. What I undestand from your initial post was that Normhead would have had greater images by having better lenses. What I was trying to say was that those better lenses would be even greater on a better camera than K1 (better for wedding, not in general). And since some people are sensitive when they hear the word Canon, let me refrase by adding K1 Mark II into discussion. As I said, to me there is no Pentax camera that can match Canon or Nikon for weddings and I gave my reasons why a few comments above. K1 Mark II seems to have an improved af. Those who know the importance of a good af in some situations, weddings being among areas of photography where fast and accurate af are important by today standards (I specified today standards because at the end of the day you can shoot weddings with manual focus lenses), will probably pay the 500$ and upgrade their K1 to K1 Mark II just for the benefit of the 5-10% improved af. And for someone who has invested 10.000$ in Pentax gear, paying those 500$ to get that 5-10% improved af may be the short term solution for continue shooting with Pentax. I'm saying short term because Pentax has to hurry a little to release some new fast prime lenses and it also has to upgrade the flash system.

For the one that has not invested a single dollar in gear and he wants to start shooting weddings, despite the fact that as I said, I really don't think that Pentax current gear can match Canon or Nikon for weddings, I can only recommend renting Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. and go shoot one wedding with each camera as an assistent, for free.

Wait? What? A full frame camera certainly offers some advantages over APS-C cameras, but investing in lenses will make a greater impact on photography than investing in a newer camera body or moving from APS-C to FF. Personally I prefer a FF, but there's nothing stopping professional wedding photographers from getting great results from an APS-C.

Read my comment where I mentioned Karl Taylor's experiment. There was nothing stopping him to get a very good product image with more than basic gear, but at the end of the shoot he said that as a professional photographer having the best tool for the job (product, fashion and comercial photography in his case) will allowed him to concentrate on composition and other stuff. I posted 2 random movies from Youtube so that you can see how some weddings in Romania looks like. I know that I'm able to shoot those weddings with K3/K1 and the Pentax 24-70mm f2.8 lens. The question is: am I willing to shoot with K3 or K1 and appeal on all my knowledge and experience in order to get the job done at every wedding for the next 3-5 years, or I invest in a proper gear to get the job done easier?

The 6D is a great example of sloppy AF. It has the same AF system as the Rebels up to the T6. As I mentioned earlier, the dual-pixel AF system Canon has been putting into more cameras has been a substantial upgrade in focus accuracy.

Yes it is, if you compare it to 5D Mark IV, D850, A7 III, D750, D810.

6D paid for all my gear and for all my trips from this year (that's more than 12.000$). I don't do photography for a living because I have a solid income doing what I like. I'm taking paid job not because I don't have money, but because:
1. I like challanges
2. I have other hobbies that can't pay for themself (watches for example) Photography is a hobby that is auto financing and in the same time it relaxes me and gives me opportunity to meet new people, to socialise and to mantain my negotiating skills up to date.

None of my clients knows at the end of the day which images is taken with 5D Mark IV, with 6D or with K1 (I had my friend's K1 with me on 2 or 3 paid corporate portraits). I upgraded to 5D Mark IV despite the fact that I was satisfied with the results I was getting with 6D. After 8 months of using 5D Mark IV, I still can go and take paid job with 6D, but I have to appeal to my knowledge and experience to get the job done as fast and as good as I do it with 5D Mark IV.

The OP isn't asking about an action camera for sports for fast-moving subjects, they are asking about Pentax for weddings and portraits.

Agree. But a camera that is capable of consistent results when shooting sports or fast flying birds can always be handy for weddings, especially when you encounter difficult conditions. And you confirmed it when you said that D5 is fast and K1 is slow to focus. I know K1 is slow to focus despite the fact that is accurate when you give it time to lock focus. The things I didn't agree with you were (still are): the sloppy af on 5D Mark IV and its terrible noise.

---------- Post added 05-11-18 at 09:01 AM ----------

Here is the short video of Karl Taylor that I was talking about. He is using Broncolor lights and modifiers with a Hassleblad camera. But for this image he used a DSLR with desk lamps. This sums up pretty well what I was trying to say from the begining, and that is: you can get great results with mediocre gear, but when comes to consistency, when comes to dealing with tough situations, when comes to spending less time editing images due to the inconsistency of your flash in TTL for example, then you invest in proper gear for the kind of job that you do. If it would have been available one camera suited for everything, we wouldn't have so many options to choose from depending on what we're shooting. I understand and I agree with everybody who say that K1 is a great camera, but we have to be honest and specify where K1 is great (landscape, portraits) and where is behind competition (weddings, sports, wildlife).

And since I mentioned again and again Karl Taylor, I do recommend Karl Taylor education platform to anyone. For 14$/month I don't think that you can find something better on internet. Here is the link to his website ( Karl Taylor Education | Photography training by Karl Taylor ). The nice thing is, if you don't like what you see, you don't have to pay the next month (you can leave anytime). Spending 14$ just for curiosity to see what you will find on his website worth every penny in my opinion.

You Tube

You Tube

[kozway]

Brett & Janelle by Matt Kozera Photography

If any of you kind folks have the time take a rip over to my site, please do! Every image on there was shot with either the Pentax K-10 or K-5 cameras. I am currently upgrading to K-3 to use in combination with the K-5. I believe the Pentax to be a fine camera for taking professional shots. Most trouble I get comes from focus hunting in low light and at times too much noise. Any constructive criticism is welcome, and as far as I know this is my first post. Can't wait to get time to check out some of your work as well! Take care and happy shooting!

[macman24054]

Most trouble I get comes from focus hunting

The K-3 will go along way to get rid of this

[kozway]

The K-3 will go along way to get rid of this

That’s exactly what I’m hoping for. I pick it up today, K-3 with battery grip, spare battery, Pentax 50-300mm, Pentax 50mm 1.8, 90deg viewfinder attachment, wireless trigger release all still in original boxes barely used(it was her husbands, he passed away in December without hardly using it). 800 bucks Canadian. Pretty amazing deal can’t pass it up

[Rondec]

I doubt that the OP is still focused on this thread as it goes back a bit, but I'll mention that my wife shoots weddings with a K1 and K1 II. There is way too much focus on gear when it comes to weddings. A wedding isn't a sporting event and a K-1 and DFA 24-70 or DFA *70-200 are more than adequate to keep up with the "action." It isn't like you are tracking a receiver running down the field or a basketball player dunking in a poorly lit gym.

Most quality photos come from someone having developed or innately having good compositional skills, learning to use flash, and choosing interesting places in which to photograph the formal shots. As to taking wedding photos with an iphone, obviously it can and has been done before, but I wouldn't recommend doing all of the photos with it -- particularly not if you have the ceremony and/or reception in a dim area. Beyond which, couples often want to have a couple of large prints and iphones have 12 megapixels -- not ideal for printing 24 inches on the long end. Ergonomically it would really not be enjoyable to use an iphone for seven or eight hours and not sure what you do when your battery runs down.

Anyway, long story short, if someone is interested in shooting weddings, the most important thing is to second shoot with someone who knows what they are doing and learn the basic skills and practice a whole lot on the side. Brand isn't particularly important -- more important is that you know the gear that you are shooting with very well and can use it without a lot of thought.

[kozway]

Anyway, long story short, if someone is interested in shooting weddings, the most important thing is to second shoot with someone who knows what they are doing and learn the basic skills and practice a whole lot on the side. Brand isn't particularly important -- more important is that you know the gear that you are shooting with very well and can use it without a lot of thought.

exactly, being a professional (in my opinion) is showing up on time, being prepared, knowing your equipment inside and out, being focused, engaging your clients and making them feel comfortable. If you can successfully do this than you are more than on your way. Your skill will improve with time and practice.