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12-21-2017, 01:46 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by robiles Quote
but totally disagree with the KP being 2nd worst anything, and from my POV it has a a number of innovative features.
I agree regarding the KP. There is much to like. When I first picked one up in a shop it was 'yuck' with the grip compared with my K3. Then I had another look at it and picked it up the same way as I do my LX which has no grip at all, and it was a different experience - so some of the handling is just in terms of adapting to the design.

Given I have a perfectly good K3, I haven't had the justification for purchasing a KP, but I like several of the design features. My next Pentax body purchase will be a K1 in 2018.

12-21-2017, 02:19 AM - 1 Like   #17
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He says, "...and honestly the K-70 does almost everything that this (K-P) does at almost half the price, and it's major advantage (over the K-70) is that it has interchangeable grips....the image quality is useless...nothing exciting, nothing interesting...how is this company still in business?" Wow. With nearly 300k subscribers I find this a gross exaggeration and disservice to viewers and the facts.

a) First of all, the K-70 ($600) is not almost half the price of the K-P ($900), unless two thirds is almost one half.
b) It's major disadvantage may be the retro style interchangeable grips, but it's not the major advantage.
c) PRIME IV Engine with Accelerator Unit (K-P) vs. PRIME MII Image Processor (K-70) (7 fps vs. 6 fps)
d) K-P 27 focus points, 25 cross types vs. K-70 11 focus points and 9 cross types.

Other than price, legit comparison criticism could but wasn't mentioned such as these K-70 advantages:
a) Fully articulated screen vs. tilt only.
b) HDMI vs. no HDMI port.
c) Built-in flash GN 12m vs. 6m (at ISO 100)

The video is high on style and low on substance. Canikony fans may be thinking, "How is Pentax still in business?", but I'd rather the youtube hosts educate their 300k subscribers why Pentax is still in business. Look at the relatively small sales of Mazda and Subaru and a car reviewer should be pointing out why in a world of auto giants VW, Toyota, Ford, Honda, GM, and Nissan, those two smaller companies have a loyal following making models that are different in both form and function.
12-21-2017, 02:27 AM - 6 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
The video is high on style and low on substance. Canikony fans may be thinking, "How is Pentax still in business?", but I'd rather the youtube hosts educate their 300k subscribers why Pentax is still in business
The Christmas TCSTV videos are for entertainment.

One of the things I have found interesting in the Pentax community is the number of engineers (myself included) and technically oriented people that own and use Pentax equipment. The Pentax design ethos appeals. If you don't get the how and why of Pentax design then you won't be interested in the brand, nor is it ever likely you will 'get' why people like and stay with Pentax equipment.

I ceased worrying about it a long time ago.
12-21-2017, 02:30 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
People, like these of "The Camera Store", are so accustomed to a certain design, having a meaty grip they grab onto like a woodsman does a chainsaw, they have no background for handling a classic camera body. So they find its grip "uncomfortable".

I think you don't have to be a "chainsaw-grabbing" photographer to prefer the K-3 grip and shutter release design over that of the KP. These quality bodies have a certain weight, which is welcome, but then I do appreciate if I can hold and operate them comfortably and intuitively.

QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
When I first picked one (KP) up in a shop it was 'yuck' with the grip compared with my K3. Then I had another look at it and picked it up the same way as I do my LX which has no grip at all, and it was a different experience - so some of the handling is just in terms of adapting to the design.

May be true up to a point, but then again, wasn't it the point of ergonomic design to adapt to human anatomy and body function, rather than expecting from users to adapt to a certain design?

Before this gets anybody started, I still think the KP is a highly capable mid-range DSLR, and it remains just that despite its flaws. Among which I would also count the somewhat feeble battery and perhaps the lack of a second SD card slot.


Last edited by Madaboutpix; 12-21-2017 at 07:58 AM.
12-21-2017, 02:36 AM - 1 Like   #20
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What I found a bit disappointing is the statement" how is Pentax still in business" and that coming from a camera store ? lost a bit of respect for them. I would bet they could not tell the difference of an image from the Nikon, Canon or any other brand for that matter with all processed the same, I highly doubt any of the so called experts could !! I have images hang on Applebees wall that were shot with a 6mp. Fuji s6000 ... Take everything seen on youtube with a grain of salt !!
12-21-2017, 02:39 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
May be true up to a point, but then again, wasn't it the point of ergonomic design to adapt to human anatomy and body function, rather than expecting from users to adapt to a certain design?
I agree. I like my K3 grip far better, as it fits my hand well and is comfortable.

The point I was trying to make is that if you pick up the KP in that manner you will be disappointed , as I was. When I picked it up like an older non grip film camera it worked better. A lot of the smaller retro styled mirrorless cameras have the same issue.

I personally prefer the K3 type grip, as I am used to it. When I pick up my LX I understand it is different and therefore handle it differently. The same would apply to the KP.

---------- Post added 21-12-17 at 10:41 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kevinsb Quote
What I found a bit disappointing is the statement" how is Pentax still in business" and that coming from a camera store ? lost a bit of respect for them. I would bet they could not tell the difference of an image from the Nikon, Canon or any other brand for that matter with all processed the same, I highly doubt any of the so called experts could !! I have images hang on Applebees wall that were shot with a 6mp. Fuji s6000 ... Take everything seen on youtube with a grain of salt !!
JADC

They were being provocative and enjoying it.
12-21-2017, 03:38 AM - 1 Like   #22
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Kind of a tough review. I would argue that we haven't seen any "revolutionary" products recently. 4K video has been around for awhile now. Increasing frame rates , even to 20 frames per second is only incremental improvement over past generations of cameras. Most people still do buy ILCs to shoot still photos and that is what hasn't changed much at all. Drop a K-1 and D810 and D850 and A9 image unmarked and you will be unable to tell them apart except if you happen to have used pixel shift on the K-1 image.

The K-P has tested to similar performance to the 6D MK II with regard to noise and dynamic range. That alone makes it pretty impressive to me. The difference in price between it and the K70 is 300 dollars, but of course, it is newer and has the option for an add on grip with better battery life as a result. That alone, while not innovative, puts the camera in a higher range than the K70 and would be a reason to choose it over the K70.

I hate these sorts of lists. It is one thing if there are really bad products out there, but there aren't. The 6D II doesn't bring improved image quality to the table over the 6D, but there are other improvements that would get Canonites to choose to shoot with it over the original 6D. Certainly picking on Pentax is any easy thing to do in any list.


Last edited by Rondec; 12-22-2017 at 03:31 AM.
12-21-2017, 04:15 AM - 1 Like   #23
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I was just about to buy the KP, but now... I think I will just throw the money into the chimney oven instead..

I don't own a KP, but would like to. It seems like a cool camera, with great features and nice shape. I don't get the grip hate. Pentax tried doing something a little different, but not crazy different. That is because "crazy different" got a lot of backlash in the past (K-01 being a yellow brick, XS lens line being ultra compact, , K-S1 with LED lights and on/off button). Even though both of these were decent cameras and both were experiments with bold new vision. I really hope Pentax continues to innovate and try new, different features. We don't need another brand that just releases a new cheap plastic Rebel and D3000 every year. But it seems that photographers are very conservative in general. Throughout the years many other brands got hate as well, like the Sony SLT or the Nikon Df model or the Hasselblaad Sony rebadges.. difficult market, photographers

Edit: I wouldn't mind as much if they had said "second least influential" or "special" camera. But "worst" implies it is not good, it is useless. But its not. KP has great sensor and many features that competing cameras at that price point do not. Great noise performance, interchangeable grip, interesting design, Pixel shift,..

Last edited by Na Horuk; 12-21-2017 at 06:50 AM.
12-21-2017, 05:38 AM   #24
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Everything depends on your expectations when you set out to review - anything.

We don’t know yet whether KP was planned as a one-off test bed for new tech or an intentional, longer-term effort to offer an enthusiast (non-flagship) SLR in a MILC-sized package, but whichever plan, KP is a nice camera, an interesting design and certainly appeals to Pentax users who respond to legacy design cues. With a couple DA Limiteds in a pocket it is a near-perfect walk around camera with a depth of image making capability I don’t think TCSTV considered.

Last edited by monochrome; 12-21-2017 at 07:21 AM.
12-21-2017, 05:53 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
Given I have a perfectly good K3, I haven't had the justification for purchasing a KP, but I like several of the design features.
Agreed I would love to have a KP I just can not justify the cost at this time.
12-21-2017, 05:56 AM   #26
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They can express their opinion all they want. If it had dual card slots i would own one.
12-21-2017, 06:43 AM - 1 Like   #27
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Their rhetorical question about Pentax still being in business is, unfortunately, a common query. Many threads on PF beat on the same issue. Some PF members and many reviewers treat new equipment as part of a kind of competitive sport. Reviews of tech equipment have fallen into a pattern of expecting and demanding innovation with little concern for what, presumably, most readers want which is an evaluation of how well the equipment functions and what it is capable of producing. I do not know about others but I am never interested in the reviewers opinion of the value of the product. That is too dependent on the individual buyer's needs, resources and expectations for a reviewer to address meaningfully. The reviewer's subjective judgment of the item is just one point we should look at in making our decision. Camera Store video reviews are often interesting and helpful but their final conclusions are rarely much more helpful than my own, just looking at the box.
12-21-2017, 06:47 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
The Leica CL.

On one hand, I see their point and understand why its on their list, on the other, I feel it wasn't designed to innovate. Its primarily a new body for those who shoot lighter smaller slower with limiteds. A new body design ethic.

Now, third place was awarded to the Canon 6dmkii, which was placed in the "worst of" list for lack of innovation, just like the KP was placed on the list for lack of innovation. However, the 6dmkii is the update of the 6d. Its supposed to be different. The KP is a different body design.

This is not in any shape of form a critique of the camera store list, I loved the video, its merely a critique on how often cameras (and any consumer technology) MUST be refreshed these days. Why not just keep the 6d around instead of updating it to the 6dmkii without any real upgrades and thus annoying the customers?

How long were film cameras kept in production until a newer model came out?
The film camera question: It was not uncommon to wait a few years for SLR system upgrades or think “Leica” or “Hasselblad” and wait decades! :-) Want a Pentax 67 or wait for the 67II? Now that was patience! LOL! OTOH, my film bodies still work great and are a lot less fiddly.
Just sayin’
12-21-2017, 07:56 AM - 1 Like   #29
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I appreciate that the folks at The Camera Store handle many more cameras and gear than I will ever see in a lifetime. I've watched some of their review videos, and have generally liked the presentations. However, I think that this video, and their other one predicting 2018, are below their standard and do a disservice to potential Pentax buyers - even more so if TCS intended the videos to be light-hearted 'entertainment.'

TCS is a reputable dealer both in store and on line, and they have a decent following on their TCSTV Youtube channel. When I visited the Calgary store twice this past summer, they were busy with plenty of customers. So, their remarks are likely to be considered seriously.

Their review of 'worst' and 'best' gear in 2017 is cursory at best. Many factors need to be considered when determing superlatives - they've missed the mark by a wide margin. I don't think 'best' and 'worst' makes sense these days when most of the photography gear is PDG (pretty darned good).

As for their predictions for 2018, the suggestions of a full-frame GR or a "digital K1000" are wild off-the-cuff time-fillers for the video.

Finally, I think that their comments on the future of "Ricoh Pentax" (aka Ricoh Imaging) again miss a key point. TCS is located in Calgary - certainly a made-to-measure location for landscape and outdoor photography. Positively, they seem to like the Pentax cameras in general - especially the K-1. They should have mentioned what they have done as a retailer -- in the absence of strong 'marketing' by Ricoh that they lament -- to promote the brand for these types of use. If they have problems selling Pentax, they may be part of their own problem.
12-21-2017, 08:48 AM - 3 Likes   #30
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I own their third best (Fuijifilm x-t20) and their second worst (Pentax KP). I love them both. The KP's image quality is certainly no worse and the shooting experience is just fine. I also own a K3. I am not a video shooter. Simply put, the KP has some of the best image quality of any apsc camera made.
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