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12-21-2017, 08:54 AM - 1 Like   #31
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I love my KP. I never heard of the Camera Store before, but I think they would make more money selling cameras than reviewing them!

"How is Pentax still in business" - How is the Camera Store still in business when they publicly diss the products they are supposed to be selling!


Last edited by sibyrnes; 12-21-2017 at 09:03 AM.
12-21-2017, 09:12 AM - 2 Likes   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by sibyrnes Quote
"How is Pentax still in business" - How is the Camera Store still in business when they publicly diss the products they are supposed to be selling!
Eh, in the past those guys sometimes had good comments about Pentax or at least understandable, relatively fair reviews. But sometimes they just miss the mark. They also posted on this forum a couple times if I remember right. As photo reviewers go, they are not terrible. But finding someone who is objective about Pentax is really difficult - even on this forum!
12-21-2017, 09:15 AM   #33
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I agree which is why I bought it, got it, then returned it. Such a missed opportunity for Pentax to put out something truly good. If it were a mirrorless I would have kept it. If it had a touchscreen for focusing duties, I would have kept it. I bought a K3 instead and have been so much happier.
12-21-2017, 09:31 AM - 3 Likes   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by derelict Quote
I agree which is why I bought it, got it, then returned it. Such a missed opportunity for Pentax to put out something truly good. If it were a mirrorless I would have kept it. If it had a touchscreen for focusing duties, I would have kept it.
And if you'd spent two minutes reading specs, you might not have bought it?

12-21-2017, 09:47 AM - 2 Likes   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by derelict Quote
I bought a K3 instead and have been so much happier.
Which is the main reason to buy something like a camera, to make us happier. The main thing about the KP is that Ricoh built and sold a new camera this year, when it could have decided to not bring any new camera bodies to market. Ricoh Company has undergone a major overhaul in 2017, which isn't complete yet, and it would have been reasonable to expect that Pentax would not bring any truly new products to market this year, given its small market share, small contribution to Ricoh's finances and small potential for growth in the industry.

The KP doesn't appeal to me at all, but it shows that Ricoh intends to stay in the camera business, which is a good thing.
12-21-2017, 09:54 AM - 3 Likes   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by derelict Quote
I agree which is why I bought it, got it, then returned it. Such a missed opportunity for Pentax to put out something truly good. If it were a mirrorless I would have kept it. If it had a touchscreen for focusing duties, I would have kept it. I bought a K3 instead and have been so much happier.

So your mirrorless K3 has a touchscreen?





Sorry for that, but seriously, what features of the K3 do you prefer over the KP?
12-21-2017, 11:13 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
And if you'd spent two minutes reading specs, you might not have bought it?
I did read the specs. I was hoping that the entire package would be more appealing once I got it in my hands. Once I did, I realized that the +$400 premium over a low shutter count K3 was simply not worth it at all. If one of those two factors was included in the KP, I would have kept it. I went from my EM10 Olympus back to an APSC Pentax. The EM10 had some functionality that I wish Pentax would incorporate in their cameras.

My point was that the KP was a bungle. A let down from the beginning. Everyone uses Sony sensors. Grab a Sony sensor, make a good K mount body, and produce a camera that can go toe to toe with the APSC Fuji or Sony mirrorless stuff that is growing faster and faster in the market. Sony sales are screaming with mirrorless cameras. Pentax has a mirrorless camera and knows what it takes to make one with the Q. Pentax will get there eventually. But, like the K1, it will be 5 years later than it should have been.

QuoteOriginally posted by sibyrnes Quote
So your mirrorless K3 has a touchscreen?





Sorry for that, but seriously, what features of the K3 do you prefer over the KP?
It was $400 cheaper for really no added features over the other. It also balances lenses better but mainly, the additional cost was simply not worth it.

12-21-2017, 11:52 AM - 2 Likes   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kevinsb Quote
What I found a bit disappointing is the statement" how is Pentax still in business" and that coming from a camera store ? lost a bit of respect for them. Take everything seen on youtube with a grain of salt !!
In general, Pentaxians are independent thinkers. So we would take this video with a shaker of salt.

But the future of the brand is with the youth market. Many of us have probably had a non-Pentax camera or system and then for reasons why Pentax is special, we now are Pentaxians. But from my experience, most folks are not independent thinkers, and they start with one brand and end with one brand, unless that brand no longer exists.

Having a popular and respected youtube channel, sponsored by a camera store, repeating "how is Pentax still in business?", with the implication it shouldn't be, is largely ignored by Pentaxians because we hear it all the time. But for all the students and parents and enthusiasts who are "doing their research" to make "an informed decision", the "don't get me wrong, we love Pentax" followed by "how is Pentax still in business" = fear, confusion, let's eliminate Pentax from the short list.

Last night, I was talking to someone that I would consider fairly intelligent, but he praised and admired Ken Rockwell as if his web site was the go to answer for all photo gear. Everyone can have their opinions, but once you become an icon, your opinions are often taken as fact or truth by a lot of gullible or naive viewers.

And on top of this, I live in Hawaii, 2500 miles from the nearest land mass. We have no authorized (or unauthorized) Ricoh/Pentax dealers. There is one store that is authorized for nearly every brand except Pentax. The owner tells me the red tape and delays with Ricoh is unlike any other brand he's dealt with, but he's still trying to bring in Pentax (so my hundreds of students can have a third option). So watching this retailer in Calgary half jokingly bash a brand they are authorized to carry, while we in Hawaii, the closest to the Pentax motherland haven't been able to sell their products, puts salt in the wound.
12-21-2017, 12:18 PM - 2 Likes   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by derelict Quote
I agree which is why I bought it, got it, then returned it. Such a missed opportunity for Pentax to put out something truly good. If it were a mirrorless I would have kept it. If it had a touchscreen for focusing duties, I would have kept it. I bought a K3 instead and have been so much happier.
The reason for having different designs in cameras is that not everyone likes the same design. The specs for the KP certainly did not include having a touch screen, and whoever sold it should have been reachable to confirm whether it had one. I would hate having a touchscreen on my camera. Or on my computer, for that matter. But certainly on my camera. I have handled some compact mirrorless models and was not favorably impressed. I like having a better control set than I have seen on them, but I understand why such is missing- to keep them compact. I also do not like having to rely on a non-optical VF. But that is me. Not all are of the same user-type as I am, hence different designs. And there are others who have a similar user-style as I have.

The design differences between the KP and the K-3 is not a secret. The objective behind the K-3 is for a relatively moderate-sized DSLR that is full featured, having a full on-body control set, a deep buffer and fairly-good burst rate, long-lasting battery, dual-card slots, very high resolution with excellent IQ, and yet a good built-in grip for large lenses, and available battery grip for even longer shooting and even larger lenses. I am familiar with this design, having shot with my K-5 and K-5 IIs for some years. Before buying the KP I knew what the differences would be just by comparing pictures of it, its specs, and its stated design goals- a premium-built DSLR, high IQ quality as close to the K-1 as possible, premium features, a better control set and build than the K-70, K-S2, K-50, 30 etc. class, in a design more compact than the K-5/K-3 series, a quality-built DSLR close to the size of many APS-C mirrorless models, more suitable for smaller lenses, even better for portability than the K-5/K-3, and yet having added capacity to better balance larger lenses with additional available grips. It is also conceived as a secondary APS-C body for those owning the K-1. I got what I expected and I love it.

I am glad you appreciate the design properties of the K-3. I understand, as I still appreciate my K-5 IIs when I need such design properties.

---------- Post added 12-21-17 at 12:33 PM ----------

Good post, Alex.

Last edited by mikesbike; 12-21-2017 at 12:37 PM.
12-21-2017, 01:31 PM - 2 Likes   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by caliscouser Quote
Only 2nd worst? Poor Pentax.. get it together.


"Pentaxians are independent thinkers" smells high of pompous, egoistical horse apples. We are no different than CaNikony shooters and the reasons we shoot with these brands are more varied than to be pigeonholed into one aspect... such as independent thinking..

Because I'm pretty sure everyone buying Canon independently thought 'can you ring up that Canon please?' and the same for the Nikons and the Sonys. But the reasons behind that decision are varied.

This is just another consumer brand producing consumer products. And the KP was not a marketing hit. Just like the K-S1. Companies make mistakes.. it happens.

That said, HOW did Canon think that giving the 6d mk II poorer DR performance than the 6d was going to fly? Especially after the 5d IV showed they seemed to be working towards improving upon that. That's bold.

Last edited by mee; 12-21-2017 at 01:56 PM.
12-21-2017, 01:45 PM   #41
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I do agree and I don't...when my K-5 IIs was up for replacement I took a look at two candidates: the K-P and the K-70. I never wanted/needed to go FF but what I did need due to my creaking joints and the ravages of slow age-related crappyness was an articulated/hinged LCD screen which would allow my unusual viewpoints and eyelevel pet-shots without getting down on all fours or worse, on my belly - it takes me half an hour of huffing and puffing to get up nowadays.

I found the K-P incredibly sexy and appealing. I thought the grips were a neat idea potentially subject to many personal likes/dislikes - I thought the large grip fit my hand just fine. The noise levels at ISO6400 - ISO25600 looked (almost) as good as any FF camera I've seen. In short, I loved the camera!

The problem is that none of these nifty features justified the 100% price difference between the two and I believe that's how many people will have judged it. The K-70 does almost everything the K-P does at half the price. The differences are really tiny. If I would have needed the extra stop of noise a lot of times, that would have sealed the deal. But I very rarely shoot under circumstances where ISO12800 and up are a must, once a year if at all.

The K-P would have been a blast were it not for the K-70 combined with its initial market-price. So I see where these reviewers are coming from - the points they make are mostly justified. Yet, if money would not have been an issue, I would have gotten the K-P for sure.
12-21-2017, 02:45 PM - 6 Likes   #42
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I find this argument that "the K-70 is almost the same as the KP for half the cost" a little intellectually lazy.

Just a reminder of the some of the significant differences:

- Metering: 86K pixel vs 77 segment
- AF system: SAFOX11 (27 point) vs SAFOX 10 (11 point), plus new tracking algorithms
- Processor: Prime IV + accelerator vs Prime M II
- 3 Control wheels vs 2
- Shake Reduction: 5-axis SRII vs SR
- Ultrasonic DRII vs sensor shake DR
- Quiet shutter and motor aperture vs louder shutter and solenoid aperture.
- 7FPS vs 6FPS
- Magnesium body vs plastic.
- Electronic shutter option
- External battery grip option

Yeah they both share a 24MP sensor (actually different ones) but other than that they have very little in common.
They clearly are just different classes of camera and the price differential reflects that.
If you think a $450 price differential at launch (or $300 today) is not worth those extra features then then fair enough.
If you don't need any of those and a K-70 does the job for you then fair enough.

But saying they are more or less the same and one is half the price just doesn't stand up in my mind.
12-21-2017, 03:38 PM - 1 Like   #43
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First, I have never heard of the Camera Store before and I have no desire to watch another end of year fiasco like that. Actually, I didn't get most of the way through that one. I am obviously not part of their demographic.

All that being said and promptly ignored, I am now quite intrigued with the K-P. I had no intention of buying another digital camera this year or next, but seeing how low on the totem pole the K-P ended up with these yahoos, and obviously with a lot of the people here on this forum, I suspect it will be right up my alley. Sounds a lot like the reception the K-01 received and it has turned out to be one of my favorite digital cameras. I am very glad I ignored the trampling masses and bought one.

Now, if I'm lucky, this magnificent review will result in an immediate drop in K-P prices as soon as the New Year dawns. Here is hoping.

EDIT - I do like gin and tonics though so I guess that these characters cannot be all bad.
12-21-2017, 04:07 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by caliscouser Quote
I find this argument that "the K-70 is almost the same as the KP for half the cost" a little intellectually lazy.

Just a reminder of the some of the significant differences:

- Metering: 86K pixel vs 77 segment
- AF system: SAFOX11 (27 point) vs SAFOX 10 (11 point), plus new tracking algorithms
- Processor: Prime IV + accelerator vs Prime M II
- 3 Control wheels vs 2
- Shake Reduction: 5-axis SRII vs SR
- Ultrasonic DRII vs sensor shake DR
- Quiet shutter and motor aperture vs louder shutter and solenoid aperture.
- 7FPS vs 6FPS
- Magnesium body vs plastic.
- Electronic shutter option
- External battery grip option

Yeah they both share a 24MP sensor (actually different ones) but other than that they have very little in common.
They clearly are just different classes of camera and the price differential reflects that.
If you think a $450 price differential at launch (or $300 today) is not worth those extra features then then fair enough.
If you don't need any of those and a K-70 does the job for you then fair enough.

But saying they are more or less the same and one is half the price just doesn't stand up in my mind.
Exactly. They are not in the same class. And the KP is in its own class, but more related to the K-3/K-5 series class. My impression is these young men who operate THIS camera store are somewhat yet immature as to being in the camera retail profession. The above list of KP differences indicates their ignorance and lacking in depth of thought in rendering such flippant judgments. I have dealt with long-standing camera retail stores run by long-experienced personnel, who know the plus and minuses of different designs, and know how to present the products. They recognize that there are different preferences, different needs, and could show how to hold cameras of different designs. They would know how to present a product in such a way that the customer can recognize the intentions behind the design and whether or not it would suit them better than another design. They would reveal the above differences, demonstrate the superior control system of the KP, and the fact all of the above advantages are to be had at around the same weight as the K-70. There are times when weight is meaningful, like sticking the camera and small lens into a large jacket pocket. The customer would then be able to make a much more informed decision.

I have a K-S2 as well. I like it for its virtues, and use it when I need them, but it is not in the class of my KP. And I certainly would not trade off my K-5 IIs, with its fine pro-style control set and other capabilities, to get the K-S2, and did not to get my KP. But my needs may be different than someone else's, which experienced retailers understand very well.
12-21-2017, 04:14 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by caliscouser Quote
I find this argument that "the K-70 is almost the same as the KP for half the cost" a little intellectually lazy.
I'll give you that one, fair shot indeed.

QuoteQuote:
Just a reminder of the some of the significant differences:

- Metering: 86K pixel vs 77 segment
- AF system: SAFOX11 (27 point) vs SAFOX 10 (11 point), plus new tracking algorithms
- Processor: Prime IV + accelerator vs Prime M II
- 3 Control wheels vs 2
- Shake Reduction: 5-axis SRII vs SR
- Ultrasonic DRII vs sensor shake DR
- Quiet shutter and motor aperture vs louder shutter and solenoid aperture.
- 7FPS vs 6FPS
- Magnesium body vs plastic.
- Electronic shutter option
- External battery grip option

Yeah they both share a 24MP sensor (actually different ones) but other than that they have very little in common.
They clearly are just different classes of camera and the price differential reflects that.
If you think a $450 price differential at launch (or $300 today) is not worth those extra features then then fair enough.
If you don't need any of those and a K-70 does the job for you then fair enough.
The above feature will be "killer features" for some and merely provide bragging points for others. I do mostly landscapes and architecture, no sports, no action shots of any kind, few people shots. So allow me to rephrase that into "for my type of shooting habits the extra cost just doesn't make any sense whatsoever". The K-P clearly has an issue: it's not trying to be a K-3 II and if I follow your reasoning, it's clearly more than a K-70 with extra features. I suppose people don't understand what the K-P is trying to be except a gorgeous piece of engineering (which it most definitely is).

QuoteQuote:
But saying they are more or less the same and one is half the price just doesn't stand up in my mind.
As I said, I stand corrected on that one - to ME they are more or less the same. I'm merely suggesting that might very well be the case for a great number of potential buyers/upgraders who do not want to get into FF.
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