[Alex645]

"Pentaxians are independent thinkers" smells high of pompous, egoistical horse apples. We are no different than CaNikony shooters and the reasons we shoot with these brands are more varied than to be pigeonholed into one aspect... such as independent thinking

I respectfully disagree, although I can see how it would come off as pompous. And what I meant by "Pentaxians are independent thinkers" is that there is a much greater percentage of Canikon (less for smaller brands) that buy into Canikon because that's what their best friend has, or what they say on the sideline, or what is used for Nat Geo or NASA, or what the salesman promoted at the store, etc.

My perspective on this is based on about 240 photo students, or 180 digital photo students per year. Acquiring their first DSLR, most students know very little about cameras, and the easiest to find, touch, test, buy, or sell are Canon. The kids, or their parents, that want to be different usually go with #2; Nikon, which are also fairly easy to find, touch, test, buy and sell.
But then there's me, the photo teacher, telling them to check out Pentax!!! It's not easy to find, touch, test, buy or sell, and you'll probably be the only one or two in the class with a Pentax. I know they don't initially know what or why a pentaprism, IBIS, dual wheels, weather-sealing, legacy glass really means, DNGs, but I explain, and the more thoughtful, kid or parent will take that risk and get the brand that "everyone says is doomed".

Do Pentaxians think more independently on politics, philosophy, social interaction, dietary choices, etc? Maybe, maybe not, but that isn't what I meant.

Yes, there are many, many different reasons why anyone chooses to buy a Pentax K-P. And yes, there are many more varied reason why Pentax instead of Canikony. But I, again my personal experience and perspective, do not believe Pentaxians "are no different than CaNikony shooters". I also shoot Nikon, and when I switched years ago from Minolta to Nikon, the main reason was not independent thinking; it was me joining the club. When I bought into the Pentax 645, it was completely against the grain of Hassie/Rollei and Bronica/Mamiya cartels.

I know many photographers buying the Canon 6DII, and if they were thinking and did their research and had any objectivity, they'd understand their decision was more copycat and keep-up-with-the-Joneses and not independent thinking.

[luftfluss]

Exactly. They are not in the same class. And the KP is in its own class, but more related to the K-3/K-5 series class. My impression is these young men who operate THIS camera store are somewhat yet immature as to being in the camera retail profession. The above list of KP differences indicates their ignorance and lacking in depth of thought in rendering such flippant judgments. I have dealt with long-standing camera retail stores run by long-experienced personnel, who know the plus and minuses of different designs, and know how to present the products. They recognize that there are different preferences, different needs, and could show how to hold cameras of different designs. They would know how to present a product in such a way that the customer can recognize the intentions behind the design and whether or not it would suit them better than another design. They would reveal the above differences, demonstrate the superior control system of the KP, and the fact all of the above advantages are to be had at around the same weight as the K-70. There are times when weight is meaningful, like sticking the camera and small lens into a large jacket pocket. The customer would then be able to make a much more informed decision.

I have a K-S2 as well. I like it for its virtues, and use it when I need them, but it is not in the class of my KP. And I certainly would not trade off my K-5 IIs, with its fine pro-style control set and other capabilities, to get the K-S2, and did not to get my KP. But my needs may be different than someone else's, which experienced retailers understand very well.

Chris and Jordan do not operate The Camera Store, so I guess this "... indicates (your) ignorance and lacking in depth of thought in rendering such flippant judgments".

[Jeff Lopez]

This shows that impressions and opinions are made from whoever makes them..If you give a KP to a Canon lover, you should expect what would be the outcome..OTOH, if you give it to a Fuji XT lover, you would expect another kind of impression. Its all in who reviews it.
Just for fun, how would it be if Mr.FroKnows reviewed the KP?
What about the other guy, ah the angry guy, forgot his name..

[awscreo]

Oh boy. You guys do realize that it's just opinions of two dudes (granted, they've probably tested and reviewed many more camera bodies and lenses than most), it's not Gospel. Take it with a grain of salt!

---------- Post added 12-21-17 at 05:06 PM ----------

If you watched more of their content you'll realize they are very lighthearted and joke around quite a lot, there's no reason to be so serious about a end of year review done while they are drinking gin and playing battleship! I get the brand loyalty and all, but come on lol. Their K-1 review was the main reason I got the camera and I do not regret it. I find their reviews pretty balanced. But again, it's just their opinion, they're allowed to have them.

[luftfluss]

[howieb101]

Well , I reckon some of the mirrorless refreshes have beenvery underwhelming this year. Think the Olympus E-M10 III and Fujifilm X-E3. They effectively lost features for very little gain.

Pentax/Ricoh have to work on video improvements. Some loyal followers would upgrade for this alone given they have essentially been in stasis for 5+ years. Come on Ricoh. And where is that firmware upgrade to allow image stabilisation for video recording.

The KP should either have:

1. Kept the 2nd SD card slot;
2. Had a deeper buffer;
3. Retained the larger battery; and/or
4. Done all of the above.

Even if it had just one of the above I am pretty sure it would have sold better with the Pentax faithful.

Howie Be

[mee]

I respectfully disagree, although I can see how it would come off as pompous. And what I meant by "Pentaxians are independent thinkers" is that there is a much greater percentage of Canikon (less for smaller brands) that buy into Canikon because that's what their best friend has, or what they say on the sideline, or what is used for Nat Geo or NASA, or what the salesman promoted at the store, etc.

My perspective on this is based on about 240 photo students, or 180 digital photo students per year. Acquiring their first DSLR, most students know very little about cameras, and the easiest to find, touch, test, buy, or sell are Canon. The kids, or their parents, that want to be different usually go with #2; Nikon, which are also fairly easy to find, touch, test, buy and sell.
But then there's me, the photo teacher, telling them to check out Pentax!!! It's not easy to find, touch, test, buy or sell, and you'll probably be the only one or two in the class with a Pentax. I know they don't initially know what or why a pentaprism, IBIS, dual wheels, weather-sealing, legacy glass really means, DNGs, but I explain, and the more thoughtful, kid or parent will take that risk and get the brand that "everyone says is doomed".

Do Pentaxians think more independently on politics, philosophy, social interaction, dietary choices, etc? Maybe, maybe not, but that isn't what I meant.

Yes, there are many, many different reasons why anyone chooses to buy a Pentax K-P. And yes, there are many more varied reason why Pentax instead of Canikony. But I, again my personal experience and perspective, do not believe Pentaxians "are no different than CaNikony shooters". I also shoot Nikon, and when I switched years ago from Minolta to Nikon, the main reason was not independent thinking; it was me joining the club. When I bought into the Pentax 645, it was completely against the grain of Hassie/Rollei and Bronica/Mamiya cartels.

I know many photographers buying the Canon 6DII, and if they were thinking and did their research and had any objectivity, they'd understand their decision was more copycat and keep-up-with-the-Joneses and not independent thinking.

I see.

So then they are biased pro-Pentax because their knowledgeable camera instructor said to check them out. That's not different than seeing their friend own a Canon and buying a Canon, no?

I say that because they didn't make an informed buy.. they're novices.. they by definition don't really know better. How would they? But the guy who is teaching the class has a Pentax and is selling the niceties of the Pentax so it must be nice. They trust you so some take the risk. It would be no different selling them on the correct brand of peanut butter. Some are going to believe you and buy your fav brand most are going for the brand they know and trust. And not the same people who trust you with the camera will trust you with the peanut butter buy.

If looking further back.. then to today.. how many people do we see coming here that had a Pentax film body.. say K1000 or the sort and know the brand name so are buying into the brand name? It happens and it seems relatively often.

It really isn't any different than Joe Canonite saying 'buy a Canon!' to his friend.

People are still people. We're not more special than the Canonites, Nikonians, Sony..people.. or any other human being operating a particular brand of camera.

Actually, if anything, I've seen more people buy a camera because its on sale for cheap (usually one of those over produced Canon Rebels or Nikon D3x00 bodies) than for any other reason. By the hundreds.

[caliscouser]

The K-P clearly has an issue: it's not trying to be a K-3 II and if I follow your reasoning, it's clearly more than a K-70 with extra features. I suppose people don't understand what the K-P is trying to be except a gorgeous piece of engineering (which it most definitely is).

I think Ricoh/Pentax's horrible marketing is to blame. People really have a hard time understanding what the KP is. This was further compounded with poor messaging around whether it is the new APS-C flagship or not.

The way I think about it is the K-70 is K-5ii(s) metering and AF (i.e. 2012 tech) with more or less current 24MP sensor tech wrapped in a K-30/K-50/K-S2 mid-class body.

The KP is the latest (for Pentax anyway) APS-C tech in a mag body with some deliberate feature omissions to allow it to sit in the rather large gap between the K-70 and K-3ii successor in terms of features and pricing.

Who's the KP for?
- The Limited shooters who want to keep it compact (Ricoh said as much themselves)
- Those who may be entertaining moving to mirror-less for size reasons (I find this less compelling).
- K-1 shooters looking for a backup APS-C camera with similar 3 wheel control layout.
- Those who want a richer feature set than the K-70 but don't necessarily need the full pro feature set of a K-3(x) class camera.

1 and 4 check the boxes for me personally.

Ricoh needs to up its game on the marketing front. They have no clue how to use social media and YouTube to generate energy and enthusiasm around their products. It doesn't even require a large marketing budget.
How hard is it to say identify the top 10 photographic Youtubers and send them a KP and a bag of delicious DA Limited primes for review? Who is running their North American marketing? What do they actually.... you know.....do?

[monochrome]

First, I have never heard of the Camera Store before and I have no desire to watch another end of year fiasco like that. Actually, I didn't get most of the way through that one. I am obviously not part of their demographic.

All that being said and promptly ignored, I am now quite intrigued with the K-P. I had no intention of buying another digital camera this year or next, but seeing how low on the totem pole the K-P ended up with these yahoos, and obviously with a lot of the people here on this forum, I suspect it will be right up my alley. Sounds a lot like the reception the K-01 received and it has turned out to be one of my favorite digital cameras. I am very glad I ignored the trampling masses and bought one.

Now, if I'm lucky, this magnificent review will result in an immediate drop in K-P prices as soon as the New Year dawns. Here is hoping.

EDIT - I do like gin and tonics though so I guess that these characters cannot be all bad.

For those upthread, and TCSTV, comparing and contrasting a K-3ll and KP is legit. K-3 less legit. K-70 not even ballpark. It’s just easy to pick on Pentax because they intentionally fill small niches, do things differently and don’t fit standard categories. And how many people will be offended anyway? We don’t matter (any more than Pentax matters).

Based on reading your posts I think you would like the KP. I’ve cleared out cameras;; down to K-1, KP and K-01. Three cameras for three purposes that can share all my Pentax lenses.

[mee]

Oh boy. You guys do realize that it's just opinions of two dudes (granted, they've probably tested and reviewed many more camera bodies and lenses than most), it's not Gospel. Take it with a grain of salt!

---------- Post added 12-21-17 at 05:06 PM ----------

If you watched more of their content you'll realize they are very lighthearted and joke around quite a lot, there's no reason to be so serious about a end of year review done while they are drinking gin and playing battleship! I get the brand loyalty and all, but come on lol. Their K-1 review was the main reason I got the camera and I do not regret it. I find their reviews pretty balanced. But again, it's just their opinion, they're allowed to have them.

Agreed.

If anything, over the past 7 years of being here, I've learned Pentaxians can be the most insecure of people. Maybe that is the real difference between us and the Canon, Nikon, or Sony shooters... in general.

At least I think that is why these guys are saying 'dont attack us' because they have been attacked before by overly zealous Pentax shooters who are seemingly so hurt that someone officially has a lesser opinion of their purchase that it, in their minds, requires a lashing out.

I know it has been all guns directed at DPR for their less than stellar Pentax reviews. Both barrels at anyone here, in the past, that has criticized Pentax.

This is why Pentax has such a bad reputation online.. too many here can't just let other people say Pentax is subpar.. maybe, to them, it is subpar. Ok great. moving on. If we could only collectively move on...

[monochrome]

I think Ricoh/Pentax's horrible marketing is to blame. People really have a hard time understanding what the KP is. This was further compounded with poor messaging around whether it is the new APS-C flagship or not.

The way I think about it is the K-70 is K-5ii(s) metering and AF (i.e. 2012 tech) with more or less current 24MP sensor tech wrapped in a K-30/K-50/K-S2 mid-class body.

The KP is latest (for Pentax anyway) APS-C tech with some deliberate feature omissions to allow it to sit in the rather large gap between the K-70 and K-3ii successor in terms of features and pricing.

Who's the KP for?
- The Limited shooters who want to keep it compact (Ricoh said as much themselves)
- Those who may be entertaining moving to mirror-less for size reasons (I find this less compelling).
- K-1 shooters looking a for a backup APS-C camera with similar 3 wheel control layout.
- Those who want a richer feature set than the K-70 but don't necessarily need full pro feature set a K-3(x) class camera.

1 and 4 checks the boxes for me personally.

Ricoh needs to up its game on the marketing front. They have no clue how to use social media and YouTube to generate energy and enthusiasm around their products. It doesn't even require a large marketing budget.
How hard is it to say identify the top 10 photographic Youtubers and send them a KP and a bag of delicious DA Limited primes for review? Who is running their North American marketing? What do they actually.... you know.....do?

1) and 3) for me, plus I’m a sucker for good legacy design cues (K-01 is nearly a direct copy of a Leica Digilux; KP is quite suggestive of the AP).

.

[clackers]

Both barrels at anyone here, in the past, that has criticized Pentax.

This is why Pentax has such a bad reputation online.. too many here can't just let other people say Pentax is subpar.. maybe, to them, it is subpar. Ok great. moving on. If we could only collectively move on...

Well, you have, haven't you, Mee ... sold your 36 Mp K-1 and gone to the 24Mp Nikon D750?

[mee]

Well, you have, haven't you, Mee ... sold your 36 Mp K-1 and gone to the 24Mp Nikon D750?

Indeed, I did sell the K-1 I owned to a nice gentleman here on the PF and I also did purchase a D750. Different horses for courses - they're both fine cameras.

But that isn't what I meant by my comment. It wasn't to sell your gear but not to attack people who have a lesser opinion of the product you cherish.

[awscreo]

Agreed.

If anything, over the past 7 years of being here, I've learned Pentaxians can be the most insecure of people. Maybe that is the real difference between us and the Canon, Nikon, or Sony shooters... in general.

At least I think that is why these guys are saying 'dont attack us' because they have been attacked before by overly zealous Pentax shooters who are seemingly so hurt that someone officially has a lesser opinion of their purchase that it, in their minds, requires a lashing out.

I know it has been all guns directed at DPR for their less than stellar Pentax reviews. Both barrels at anyone here, in the past, that has criticized Pentax.

This is why Pentax has such a bad reputation online.. too many here can't just let other people say Pentax is subpar.. maybe, to them, it is subpar. Ok great. moving on. If we could only collectively move on...

Funny thing - I experienced the same thing when I was shooing olympus Olympus forum is also full of "Olympus is doomed", "Canikon sucks", "DPR hates our AFC for no reason", "Brand X is better than Brand Y", "Olympus lenses are better than other lense" etc

[clackers]

Indeed, I did sell the K-1 I owned to a nice gentleman here on the PF and I also did purchase a D750.

But you're still here even though no longer a financial supporter, and you've sold off and jumped brand ... because?