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12-25-2017, 02:37 PM - 1 Like   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
On my previous link, they state the KP gets 390 shots per battery charge, which is below average. However, that may be an issue for pros, but not the average photographer. And considering the cost of spare batteries, it's sort of like complaining that your 40 mpg economy car only has a 10 gallon fuel tank.

And a true DK1000 would have a battery that would last about 2 years and could be operated without power (sans metering and AF) in an all manual mode.

12-25-2017, 02:38 PM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
Well it doesn't have to have low battery life anymore, recent mirrorless cameras have pretty decent batteries. Why not add a little bit of grip, like one on XT2. k1000 is a beautiful design, and it'd make a nice retro mirrorless.
I always considered my Super Program to be more desirable than a K1000, more svelte for one thing. Now I consider the KP to be its equivalent in appearance, size, grip, and battery life. I have no reason to want a K1000 equivalent, but a KP will be my next camera unless they come up with something else.
12-25-2017, 03:02 PM - 2 Likes   #153
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I like the K1000 but I don't think that works for digital. I really think that the idea in most people's imagination when they talk about this is less an actual form factor and more a true minimalist camera. I am certainly intrigued with the KP but it doesn't even begin to fit as a minimalist type of camera.

K1000 had shutter speeds, aperture, optical viewfinder, micro prism rangefinder, ISO adjustment, simple center weighted metering, manual film advance, interchangeable lenses. The K1000 was probably defined as much by what features it didn't have as it was by those that it did.

So how does that actually translate to digital. I think that the only digital camera that currently comes close to a minimal feature set is the Leica MD. It doesn't even have a rear display.

Everybody likes to toss this idea around but how close to the original K1000 feature set are you willing to pay for in a digital camera? And how much would you pay?

I think what people really want is a full featured digital camera that pretends to be a K1000 through looks alone. They are not really willing to do without all the nice menus and features that come with current digital cameras. Not even many Leica users are actually willing to put their money where their mouths are and buy the MD.
12-25-2017, 03:14 PM   #154
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I would be willing to go for a minimalist camera, like the FF Leica M-D without a rear screen or menus, no video, and only shoots DNGs, if the price reflected the reduced features ($600, not $6000+). Like the Leica Monochrom that only shoots monochrome, there is something to the less is more, but not if it costs more to get less.

12-25-2017, 03:32 PM   #155
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I honestly have not noticed a difference in battery life between my KP and my K-1. I'm not saying there isn't a difference - I just have not noticed it. I always carry an extra battery and change it when needed. I don't worry about, or even keep track of how many shots I get with a battery.

If my goal was to find faults with the KP(or any camera) I'm sure I could, but I just really enjoy shooting with it and that's enough for me.
12-25-2017, 03:57 PM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
I would be willing to go for a minimalist camera, like the FF Leica M-D without a rear screen or menus, no video, and only shoots DNGs, if the price reflected the reduced features ($600, not $6000+). Like the Leica Monochrom that only shoots monochrome, there is something to the less is more, but not if it costs more to get less.
I can agree that the Leica MD is priced far higher than it should be, but that is true of all Leica cameras.

However, it doesn't necessarily follow that even a Pentax version, which I would definitely buy, would be a low priced camera on the Pentax scale of things. The problem is that any digital camera with this minimal type of feature set will be a very specialty camera with a low turnover. This is why the Leica MD is higher priced as well. You are paying a premium for the fact that the camera is quite a bit outside the normally expected model. However, in the Leica world, this type of minimal feature set has a true following so the camera does sell. Leica is also a very small camera company catering to a clientele that typically is willing to spend more money for their cameras and their lenses. They still do a lot of hand assembly even today so the MD is more possible.

Pentax is not small and they do not use hand assembly at all that I am aware of. Even though the Pentax K1000 has a very loyal following I am not sure that even Pentax fans would be willing to pay $2,000 or more for a true K1000 feature set, even if it were full frame, which I think it has to be. Looking back through history, Pentax really has never been a producer of boutique style cameras, which this would certainly be.

I would be more than happy to add my name to a pre-order list, even fronting some money, if Ricoh did agree to produce this type of camera. But I have no delusions that this would ever really happen. Instead, the best you would end up with is another Nikon DF, which was just a wannabe. Pentax already has great backwards compatibility and already make most important adjustments available without going to menus.
12-25-2017, 10:44 PM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You're saying... the KP's battery life is not really an issue, and they should scratch that out from the "this is what makes it the 2nd worst camera" list?
My point is that they're asking precisely for the characteristics they're bashing the KP for.
I think they picked the cameras they liked the least for their list. It's not like they trashed KP completely either, dunno if you've watched the KP review itself. It seems they were just less impressed with it than some of the other products from other brands

---------- Post added 12-25-17 at 10:49 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I always considered my Super Program to be more desirable than a K1000, more svelte for one thing. Now I consider the KP to be its equivalent in appearance, size, grip, and battery life. I have no reason to want a K1000 equivalent, but a KP will be my next camera unless they come up with something else.
Some want a mirrorless design though.im happy with dslr but I did enjoy my time with mirrorless and could see a value in Pentax mirrorless camera, with evf manual focus enhancements etc

12-26-2017, 04:23 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
I think they picked the cameras they liked the least for their list. It's not like they trashed KP completely either, dunno if you've watched the KP review itself. It seems they were just less impressed with it than some of the other products from other brands

---------- Post added 12-25-17 at 10:49 PM ----------



Some want a mirrorless design though.im happy with dslr but I did enjoy my time with mirrorless and could see a value in Pentax mirrorless camera, with evf manual focus enhancements etc
The thing about mirrorless cameras is that the biggest point of them seems to be to make the camera smaller (mostly thinner) and to make wide angle primes smaller. This is only achievable if you go ahead and make a new lens mount with it. But leaving the K mount behind, even if Pentax would release an adapter that would allow for mounting current lenses on this new camera, would really put Pentax in a tough spot.

Currently, they have a pretty decent APS-C line up and are trickling out full frame lenses, but this would mean going back to the drawing table to try to create a bunch of lenses for the new mount. I'm not convinced they could do that in a timely manner.
12-26-2017, 06:52 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The thing about mirrorless cameras is that the biggest point of them seems to be to make the camera smaller (mostly thinner) and to make wide angle primes smaller. This is only achievable if you go ahead and make a new lens mount with it. But leaving the K mount behind, even if Pentax would release an adapter that would allow for mounting current lenses on this new camera, would really put Pentax in a tough spot.

Currently, they have a pretty decent APS-C line up and are trickling out full frame lenses, but this would mean going back to the drawing table to try to create a bunch of lenses for the new mount. I'm not convinced they could do that in a timely manner.
It won't be Pentax if the K-mount was left behind. I don't know if they were both drunk after consuming a lot of Gin when they said they didn't understand why Pentax is still in business. Probably they don't see any effort from Ricoh to sell Pentax. Frankly, I don't understand why there's no advertising/marketing campaign for Pentax. Sure I agree, AF isn't that great but it ain't all that bad as others are trying to portray it. Pentax's strength is a force to recon with. It's just that it's not being emphasized.

Come on Ricoh, please do some marketing efforts!
12-26-2017, 01:05 PM - 1 Like   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote

Feature- and performance-wise the KP has quite a bit to go for it, but who gave Ricoh the idea that the K-7/K-5/K-3 form factor is not small enough to be happily shooting their Limiteds? One reason that I fell in love with the K-7 in its time was that it fit my hands like a glove, had build quality written all over it, and was so much fun in actual use.
As a K-01 user the KP is the only camera I feel compelled to upgrade to once I have the money. The size of the other cameras do not appeal to me.

I'm glad they made it.
12-27-2017, 12:38 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The thing about mirrorless cameras is that the biggest point of them seems to be to make the camera smaller (mostly thinner) and to make wide angle primes smaller. This is only achievable if you go ahead and make a new lens mount with it. But leaving the K mount behind, even if Pentax would release an adapter that would allow for mounting current lenses on this new camera, would really put Pentax in a tough spot.

Currently, they have a pretty decent APS-C line up and are trickling out full frame lenses, but this would mean going back to the drawing table to try to create a bunch of lenses for the new mount. I'm not convinced they could do that in a timely manner.
I think recent (larger) mirrorless bodies showed that there are other advantages of mirrorless cameras other than size, especially since full frame lenses for mirorrless aren't smaller than full frame lenses for dslr's. EVF, silent shutters, ability to adapt glass from any system (especially with adapters getting smarter, supporting af etc), ease of focusing with manual glass (peaking and magnification in EVF), much higher fps + a ton more af points etc. Of course there are trade offs, and people will choose dslr or milc. They can keep the size of K1000 and just offer a MILC pentax K mount camera with vintage styling and much easier use of older glass, or use another mount and allow adapters for other systems, not sure if what would be better. First way is probably cheaper for them, but a new mount could be give more options for users.
12-27-2017, 12:57 PM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
I think recent (larger) mirrorless bodies showed that there are other advantages of mirrorless cameras other than size, especially since full frame lenses for mirorrless aren't smaller than full frame lenses for dslr's. EVF, silent shutters, ability to adapt glass from any system (especially with adapters getting smarter, supporting af etc), ease of focusing with manual glass (peaking and magnification in EVF), much higher fps + a ton more af points etc. Of course there are trade offs, and people will choose dslr or milc. They can keep the size of K1000 and just offer a MILC pentax K mount camera with vintage styling and much easier use of older glass, or use another mount and allow adapters for other systems, not sure if what would be better. First way is probably cheaper for them, but a new mount could be give more options for users.
I suppose. The reality is that at a given price range (say, 2000 dollars) you are going to get very similar performance between SLRs and mirrorless cameras. I don't think there are any SLRs yet that can hit an A9's frame rate, but that is just because it is the newest one and prior to its release, the D5 and 1Dx II were king of the roost. Many SLRs now incorporate an electronic shutter and silent mode.

I'm not saying that mirrorless cameras are bad. I just think they are more similar in terms of performance to SLRs than they are different. I would hesitate to say that there are any images that could be taken with an SLR than couldn't be with an MILC at this point -- or vice versa.

As for Pentax mirrorless, it just isn't happening. If there is a mirrorless camera, odds are it will be a Ricoh.
12-27-2017, 01:25 PM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I suppose. The reality is that at a given price range (say, 2000 dollars) you are going to get very similar performance between SLRs and mirrorless cameras. I don't think there are any SLRs yet that can hit an A9's frame rate, but that is just because it is the newest one and prior to its release, the D5 and 1Dx II were king of the roost. Many SLRs now incorporate an electronic shutter and silent mode.

I'm not saying that mirrorless cameras are bad. I just think they are more similar in terms of performance to SLRs than they are different. I would hesitate to say that there are any images that could be taken with an SLR than couldn't be with an MILC at this point -- or vice versa.

As for Pentax mirrorless, it just isn't happening. If there is a mirrorless camera, odds are it will be a Ricoh.
But isn't it just choice? IQ wise you won't see the difference, but there's a significant enough difference handling the camera, some prefer MILC, others DSLR. It won't even need to have crazy fps rate to compete with A9, old olympus em1 can do 11fps, more than enough in my opinion. And at say $1499 price point - similar to A7II in terms of spec (24mp sensor), with IBIS, and with Pentax features (PixelShift, Astrotracer, GPS), and awesome retro styling, maybe a cool vintage prime as a kit lens (Pentax-A 50 1.7 or smth similar). Back when I was choosing a system to switch to, if I had that choice I'd buy it in a heartbeat A7II looked good to me, but it had some drawbacks that pushed me towards Pentax instead. Dreams, sure, but one can dream.
12-27-2017, 01:28 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by adjutant Quote
You've set up the most ridiculous straw person to argue against. No one on PentaxForums has ever said such a thing, but you gladly assume it because apparently, it's the only way your accusations would make sense.
Straw person?
12-27-2017, 01:45 PM - 1 Like   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
But isn't it just choice? IQ wise you won't see the difference, but there's a significant enough difference handling the camera, some prefer MILC, others DSLR.
I don't quite understand the polarized views around DSLR versus mirrorless... They both have strengths and weaknesses, but like any tool, you just learn to embrace those and work with them. I use both, enjoy them for different reasons, and have no trouble switching back and forth. I will say, there are things I can do far more easily with an EVF, even though I may prefer the view through an optical viewfinder.
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