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01-10-2018, 07:44 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
The current lenses available for all the alternative APS-C camera systems have much the same good and bad points as those available for Pentax.

...
That said, there are plenty of K-mount lenses that provide extremely sharp results, if that's your priority. The Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 mentioned by others here is one of those. I think I paid around £300 for mine here in the UK, which is something of a bargain for a fast, constant aperture zoom lens...
My personal copy of the Sigma 17-50 f2.8 is fine for close up work but I find it disappointing on landscapes which form the core of my photography here in Newfoundland, Canada. In particular, it makes the landscape details in the distance look almost pointillist rather than defined. This is true even stopped down to f8 or so. I still have it should I need indoors f.2.8, but I have totally gone over to the Pentax 16-85 for landscape and outdoors pictures. My personal copy of that lens renders colors and details near and far beautifully.

Other's mileage may vary.


Last edited by jgnfld; 01-10-2018 at 07:54 AM.
01-10-2018, 09:31 AM - 1 Like   #32
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APS is not so much dead as it may be stagnant. Most, if not all major lens development is happening in the FF (especially FE mount) and u4/3 ecosystems. The reason is because APS is complete. The focal lengths and apertures are mostly covered. I don’t think APS lenses are flying off the shelves to justify major updates like a Rev 2. I think all ecosystems will face this situation when their line up is considered complete. u4/3 May have their Rev 2 in order to get faster versions of already existing focal lengths. Olympus has started releasing faster Pro lenses, like their recent 17mm f/1.2. That’s not a new focal length for them. They already have f/2.8 and f/1.8.

Sony has slowed down their APS lens development. I think Fuji is still trickling something out but it still pales in comparison.

I think the best you can do is upgrade your camera body for better AF performance and correct optical defects with some gentle post processing.
01-10-2018, 11:12 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChromaNoise Quote
Pentax-A 70-210mm f/4
Soft throughout the entire zoom range, no matter what aperture it's set to. It's been collecting dust ever since I got it. Overall, a complete waste of money.
Verdict: Trash
Must be your copy. Mine has proved to be very competent and at least as good as its highly regarded contemporary, the Tamron SP 70-210/3.5 that I also own.

QuoteOriginally posted by ChromaNoise Quote
Pentax DA 17-70mm f/4
The "would be decent" lens if not for said focus inaccuracy. It seems that the SDM is on its way out now too. Would not buy again.
Verdict: Mediocre
I own the Sigma 17-70/2.8-4 (C) and bought it over the Pentax equivalent based on the reviews on this site. It is a sterling lens despite significant focus breathing at the long end and is highly recommended in my book. It is more than up to the resolution challenge of my K-3. If you choose to replace your DA 17-70/4, the Sigma might be an option.

As for the general statement about wide-end options (the "Dead-End" of the original post), that was definitely true in 2007 when I bought my K10D. I filled the gap with a KMZ Zenitar 16/2.8 Fisheye which proved more than capable for the task. In recent years, I have been pleased to see the multiple entries into the sub-20mm focal length space in K-mount and no longer consider the short end to be a K-mount desert.


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01-10-2018, 11:25 AM   #34
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I can recommend two zoom lenses that i used on my K5II that always made me smile! DA*16-50 f2.8 and DA*50-135 f2.8. The Sigma 17-50 f2.8 is ok, just does not have that magical effect!

01-10-2018, 12:28 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
APS is not so much dead as it may be stagnant. Most, if not all major lens development is happening in the FF (especially FE mount) and u4/3 ecosystems. The reason is because APS is complete.
er, DA* 11-18?
01-10-2018, 12:37 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
er, DA* 11-18?
First, I said "most, if not all". That does leave room for "some".

Second, I think the D-FA* 50mm and the DA* 11-18mm were announced at the same time but the D-FA* 50mm seems to be much further ahead. We're seeing advance sample images online and blog reports on it. Has anything like that appeared for the DA* 11-18mm?

I hope for APS user's sake that the lens will come out soon but I have a feeling that Ricoh took what limited resources they have and threw it all on the D-FA* 50mm.
01-10-2018, 02:03 PM - 1 Like   #37
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What???

QuoteOriginally posted by ChromaNoise Quote
I've been an owner of a Pentax K-5 for several years now. I got the camera at a discount and at that time I thought it was a pretty good deal. However, throughout the years I've been trying to find a decent walk-around zoom lens for it, without much success.

What I found that literally all of the "digital" lenses don't provide enough quality the sensor otherwise would be capable of. Since I tried many film lenses, I know what the sensor can do, but the obvious caveat there is the lack of focal length on the wide end. Regarding "digital" lenses, another issue has surfaced and that is a ridiculously small focus throw. My Pentax 17-70 has ruined quite a few shots because of inaccurate AF and accurate MF is impossible with that short throw.

It seems to me that Pentax, including competitors essentially killed off APS-C quality by manufacturing lenses meant for full-frame sensors. For me those are prohibitively expensive, not to mention they don't represent a good value (ala I'm not getting a 5 times better camera for 5 times the price). Since I'm a hobbyist, I'm not making money on photography either.

At this point I don't think there is a way to salvage my camera, since there won't be any normal zoom lens for it ever, that matches its sensor. I understand that people will say I wanted too much for too little, but I just wanted to share my experience.
You do know the K5 has a very very strong anti-aliasing filter, so everything is a bit on the soft side from that camera? You can compensate by sharpening more than usual, but get a K3ii with a 16-85 and tell me that doesn't just rock your world. And with the DA limiteds...forgetabout it. Have you tried the 15 limited?

Good luck,
Cameron


Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-10-2018 at 02:11 PM. Reason: Keeping it friendly
01-10-2018, 03:01 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think you would find any of the DA limiteds, DA *primes, or the DA *60-250 or DA *50-135 to be of excellent quality. Truthfully, the 18-135, while cheap is quite a capable lens. I know photozone gave it a hard review, but there are enough other folks who have decent copies here that I wouldn't judge it totally off that review. I certainly wouldn't say that Pentax isn't releasing new APS-C gear. They continue to turn out new cameras and have announced the DA *11-18. Clearly they aren't abandoning it.

If you watch the marketplace here, you can often find nice deals on lenses in good shape and that can save quite a bit off of new glass.
Yes, Photozone (now they call themselves Optical Limits) gave a hard review to the 18-135. I wonder how many samples they evaluated. When my DA 17-70 died I bought a DA 16-85 to replace it and I really like it. Out of curiosity I checked Optical Limits and they reviewed the 16-85 and gave it quite a glowing review. They ultimately gave it their "Highly Recommended" conclusion. Point is, there are plenty of high quality lens options for Pentax APS-C and I do not see that they are abandoning or backing away from APS-C.
What I am picking up from this thread and all of the responses is that the K-5 is getting somewhat old and even though I still really like mine I am getting a sense it is getting left behind the times. My K-5 is backup to a K-3 which definitely has better autofocus, especially indoors. I will probably be looking at an upgrade to the KP later this year. I also can't wait to get a look at the new DA* 11-18 when it comes out.
01-10-2018, 04:42 PM - 1 Like   #39
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It could be possible that the lenses are front/back focusing. Let's not forget that. In that situation taking the time to fine tune lenses is a valid option.
01-10-2018, 05:05 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
You do know the K5 has a very very strong anti-aliasing filter...
I do not agree with ChromaNoise's views regarding Pentax DA lenses but also, although I no longer have a K-5, from experience I cannot accept this point from Cambo regarding its AA filter. In fact you can still read on-line the DPReview in-depth review of the K-5 which states, "Thanks to the camera's comparatively weak AA filter, the Pentax K-5 produces very good detail in both JPEG and RAW image modes."
01-10-2018, 05:26 PM - 1 Like   #41
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Clearly if manual focus lenses from film era give good results the AA filter isn't the problem. The lack of focus accuracy is more likely the culprit. I'd think front / back focus issues before AA filter.
01-10-2018, 10:39 PM   #42
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Pentax has a solid APS-C lineup. I have absolutely no misgivings about investing in a Pentax APSC-only kit. Something that was significantly missing from the lineup was a premium wide angle zoom, and lo and behold, the DA* 11-18 was recently announced. I think they've got all their bases covered now in terms of zoom. I suppose they could start making F4 versions of the F2.8 zooms. Or make a Pentax re-brand of that new Tamron super-zoom. Remake old lens designs to PLM versions seems like a cool idea as well. I means, there's still stuff for Pentax to release, but it's got all the basic stuff down now.

I've got a 20-40 Limited, so I am biased when I say Pentax has a pretty damn excellent normal zooms. I'm never going to get rid of it. I guess what I'm trying to say is: buy premium lenses for premium results. So don't lose heart friend, you don't have to go full frame if you don't want to.
01-10-2018, 11:51 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChromaNoise Quote
OK, here comes a list, mini-review style:

Pentax-A 35-105mm f/3.5
Some call it "stack of primes", I can't agree more. All zoom lenses should be made like this. I probably got my best results with this lens. A bit heavy, yes, but who cares?
Verdict: Excellent

Pentax-A 135mm f/2.8
I haven't used this many times but when I did, there was that definite "wow factor" there. Sharp and contrasty, very nice colors.
Verdict: Excellent

Pentax-A Macro 50mm f/2.8
Sharp lens. I guess the only drawback is the lack of 1:1 magnification?
Verdict: Very Good

Pentax-A 70-210mm f/4
Soft throughout the entire zoom range, no matter what aperture it's set to. It's been collecting dust ever since I got it. Overall, a complete waste of money.
Verdict: Trash

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 DG
Not terribly good, not terribly bad either. Used it a couple of times, love the wide end on it.
Verdict: Medium-Good

Pentax DA 17-70mm f/4
The "would be decent" lens if not for said focus inaccuracy. It seems that the SDM is on its way out now too. Would not buy again.
Verdict: Mediocre

Pentax-A 24-50mm f/4
I got some decent results out of this one. It's a bit slow and soft on the wide end. The major drawback here it was designed for film cameras. If this was let's say a 16-30mm or similar, I'd use this one most of the time. Unfortunately it isn't.
Verdict: Good

---------- Post added 01-10-18 at 03:24 AM ----------



I've actually been looking at the Sigma 17-50 for a couple of years now. However, sample shots show that it may not represent a good value. It was a bit expensive the last time I checked, dunno. It only got 3.5 stars on Optical Limits (formerly Photozone), the same as the Pentax 17-70. At that point I decided it's probably not much better.

I immediately disregarded the Pentax 18-135mm when I got my camera body because of mediocre results. I think it's common knowledge that long zooms aren't very good?

A friend of mine has the Pentax 16-85. He sent me a couple of samples and while I sort of like the results, I'm not really flattered. The way the lens extends on its full focal length scares me.

The 20-40 looks interesting, but is it wide enough??? It baffles me why it does not start from 16-17mm. Scared to buy just to find out.

To be honest, you have very little experience with AF lenses to be complaining about them. 


I have the 16-45, and I get very good results out of it, even wide open.  


I have a sigma 8-16, excellent results. 


I have a tamron 28-75, excellent results (aslong as you don't shoot wide open at 75mm). 


I have a Tamron 70-200 excellent results 


I have a Pentax 80-200, excellent results concidering it is an old cheap lens. Just don't use it wide open. 


So there are plenty of excellent lenses which you can use on APS-C sensors. But as with all things, not everything is equal. Even with quality control, bad copies will seep through the gaps. If you happen to get one of those, bad luck. But it doesn't represent the majority of it. 


And with the 20-40. Yes they could have started at 16 or 17mm, but then it wouldn't be so small, or IQ would be less, or the aperture would start smaller. 


Look at the latest lenses from Sigma All very good, very sharp, all large aperture lenses, and all very big. To have it all, you will have to pay the price, in money, and in size. there is no other way around it (yet)


01-11-2018, 07:15 AM - 2 Likes   #44
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A new high-end DA* 11-18/2.8 does not spell dead end to me...
01-11-2018, 08:52 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
A new high-end DA* 11-18/2.8 does not spell dead end to me...
It is going to be huge, I'll stick to a HD DA15.

I'd have preferred a Limited f4 version of 11-18 much in the style of the fabulous HD DA 20-40 Ltd. Then a small crop body like KP with the 11-18 f4 & 20-40 f2.8-f4 would been a perfect compact high end UWA to slight telephoto camera system.

That FA 15-30 f2.8 is so big and heavy you'd be better off with a 645 medium format.
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