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01-11-2018, 09:07 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by nocturnal Quote
It is going to be huge, I'll stick to a HD DA15.

I'd have preferred a Limited f4 version of 11-18 much in the style of the fabulous HD DA 20-40 Ltd. Then a small crop body like KP with the 11-18 f4 & 20-40 f2.8-f4 would been a perfect compact high end UWA to slight telephoto camera system.

That FA 15-30 f2.8 is so big and heavy you'd be better off with a 645 medium format.
The 11-18 will probably be fine on the next APSc flagship. The 20-40 isn’t really small on the KP - certainly not a DA21/40/70 pancake!

01-11-2018, 09:12 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by nocturnal Quote
It is going to be huge, I'll stick to a HD DA15.

I'd have preferred a Limited f4 version of 11-18 much in the style of the fabulous HD DA 20-40 Ltd. Then a small crop body like KP with the 11-18 f4 & 20-40 f2.8-f4 would been a perfect compact high end UWA to slight telephoto camera system.

That FA 15-30 f2.8 is so big and heavy you'd be better off with a 645 medium format.

What would you use an 11-18 f4 for? I'd assume it'd be mostly used on a tripod for landscape and architecture. If you're worried about size and weight, why not swap the tripod with a sufficiently fast for hand holding lens?

Last edited by AyeYo; 01-11-2018 at 09:29 AM.
01-11-2018, 09:28 AM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by AyeYo Quote
What would you use an 11-18 f4 for? I'd assume it'd be mostly used on a tripod for landscape and architecture. If you're worried about size and weight, why not stick the tripod with a sufficiently fast for hand holding lens?
Landscape at f2.8 handheld? Snap landscapes yes but not if one prints large fine art landscapes or architectures requiring large depth of field and ISO 100. Hence why they put f32 on the DA 20-40 zoom (which I own).

Come on seriously you can't ditch a tripod. 😁

It may be a good for aurora photography, f2.8 is useful for this and handheld interiors.
01-11-2018, 09:34 AM   #49
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Well that's exactly what I meant. Why does lens size matter for shots you're already lugging a tripod for? If you're not lugging a tripod (walk around landscape or city snaps), you'd probably want a faster lens, even with the size penalty. So basically, an 11-18 f2.8 can work for both types of use, an 11-18 f4 is really only good at one. At least that's how I'd be looking at it if I was the one selling the lens.

01-11-2018, 11:46 AM - 1 Like   #50
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I hate big lenses and that is why I chose Pentax. No I don't want a faster lens in UWA. I have a Samyang 14mm f2.8 and I would never hike with it, I hate using it and only use it for astro (which it isn't good at either because the true open aperture is too small, same will be true for the new Pentax 11-18). It needs a heavier tripod than the marvellous DA15 f4.

If I have a big heavy lens on then I'd need a heavier tripod than the super light compact one I have for hiking.

If I have to carry larger gear it will be 645 film format and the Pentax system is my compact system.

Besides angles less than 15mm/22.5mm FF aren't ideal (for me) for landscapes as everything becomes way too miniature.

I don't think I'll be wanting this lens as it doesn't suit my photography.

---------- Post added 01-11-18 at 07:41 PM ----------

Talking about lightweight/small gear and tripods...

When I need to go really light I bring the tiniest tripod, a little toy type about 4" long and cost £5 or so. I have used it with my K30/DA15 and DA40 with the astrotracer attached. Rested on a rock I have successfully used it for long exposures.

All the above in contrast to the Canon photographers I met in Tenerife (world's 3rd highest volcano) whom with their bulky gear, I thought were going on a 3 month expedition.

Again it is why I chose Pentax and never regretted it.
01-11-2018, 01:36 PM - 2 Likes   #51
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I disagree completely that APS-C is dying. I think if anything, the opposite is true-APS-C has within the last few years, made such progress in image quality, it is putting full-frame into an even more niche category. Not that FF still doesn't offer some advantages, it does in certain respects, but the gap between the two formats has been narrowed to a remarkable degree. As to lenses, it is practical to offer a lens that would satisfy both, especially for customers who have both. There are nonetheless plenty of high-quality APS-C lenses available that will produce fine results, that are even capable of showing the resolution gained in the latest camera bodies.
01-11-2018, 02:10 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by nocturnal Quote
It is going to be huge, I'll stick to a HD DA15.

I'd have preferred a Limited f4 version of 11-18 much in the style of the fabulous HD DA 20-40 Ltd. Then a small crop body like KP with the 11-18 f4 & 20-40 f2.8-f4 would been a perfect compact high end UWA to slight telephoto camera system.

That FA 15-30 f2.8 is so big and heavy you'd be better off with a 645 medium format.
What advantage would it have over the existing DA 12-24 f/4?

01-11-2018, 02:14 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
I disagree completely that APS-C is dying. I think if anything, the opposite is true-APS-C has within the last few years, made such progress in image quality, it is putting full-frame into an even more niche category. Not that FF still doesn't offer some advantages, it does in certain respects, but the gap between the two formats has been narrowed to a remarkable degree.
Absolutely, Mike. The performance of APS-C bodies like the K-70 and KP is really outstanding. Even my (now considered long-in-the-tooth) K-3 and K-3II are phenomenally capable.

I choose to stay with APS-C format on my Pentax equipment... I like the size of the bodies and lenses, and though I do use some full-frame glass on them at times, the APS-C lens line-up is terrific. It might not suit everybody, but you'd be hard pressed not to find something very good at both focal length extremes and everywhere in between. We have plenty of great glass to shoot with. Plenty

Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-11-2018 at 05:17 PM.
01-11-2018, 03:38 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
What advantage would it have over the existing DA 12-24 f/4?
All the newer tech developed since 2005... HD coating, possibly better optical design, shorter zoom range meaning better optics, lighter, smaller and especially smaller thread size than 77mm (which is 10mm bigger than my F*300 prime).

Hence why I said an f2.8 version would be a monster, especially with the measurebator trend of sharp corners wide open.
01-11-2018, 03:44 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by AyeYo Quote
What would you use an 11-18 f4 for?
f4 is only one stop slower than f2.8. You could do the same things with an f4 that you could with an f2.8 lens. A stop faster is nice to have, certainly a premium feature, but not absolutely necessary, especially in daylight use where I might be stopping down to f8 anyways. Even on my f2.8 lenses I try to not shoot wide open if I don't have to, since that's not the optimum aperture for image quality.

Last edited by adjutant; 01-11-2018 at 04:05 PM.
01-11-2018, 04:38 PM - 1 Like   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
... APS-C has within the last few years, made such progress in image quality, ... the gap between the two formats has been narrowed to a remarkable degree.
Reminds me of guy I worked with c1985 when there was a technical step improvement in film resolution. He bought a 110 camera (for younger readers : 110 frame size was about the size of a fingernail) on the basis that the 110 format now had the same resolution as 35mm format, or so he reckoned. But of course 35mm film also took advantage of the improvement, so it always stayed ahead. I notice for example that the FF Canon EOS 5DS is now up to 50 MPx. Whether such ever-increasing resolution has any point for normal prints, let alone computer screens, is arguable, and I think that if I were starting now I'd go for APS-C. However, having a collection of legacy 35mm film lenses, I have opted for FF so my old lenses can be used for the purposes I bought them for.
QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
As to lenses, it is practical to offer a lens that would satisfy both, especially for customers who have both.
Funny, but Canon have deliberately different mounts for their FF and APS cameras, to foil people from doing just that We are lucky to be Pentax users.
01-11-2018, 05:52 PM   #57
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Fine legacy lenses being used in their original FOV, and related purposes, is a valid point for FF appeal. It is certainly my own, since I have acquired some very good lenses from the days of exclusive film use, that do not serve as well for APS-C. I have not yet pulled that trigger, not in a hurry, but I am likely to down the road.
01-11-2018, 06:07 PM - 1 Like   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Funny, but Canon have deliberately different mounts for their FF and APS cameras, to foil people from doing just that
That's not the whole story. Canon FF lenses (EF mount) will work just fine on Canon APS-C bodies that have the EF-S mount. The EF-S lenses - which are APS-C specific - won't work on Canon FF cameras.
01-12-2018, 12:37 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Canon FF lenses (EF mount) will work just fine on Canon APS-C bodies that have the EF-S mount. The EF-S lenses - which are APS-C specific - won't work on Canon FF cameras.
In that case I won't quibble with them. The sharp part of the image circle of an APS-C lens will generally be smaller than for a FF lens, and I guess Canon don't want their FF cameras to be blamed for sub-optimal results due to an APS-C lens being used. But do their FF DSLRs allow Canon's legacy film lenses to be used, like Pentax do?
01-12-2018, 12:47 PM - 1 Like   #60
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My impression was that Canon abandoned their legacy glass years ago when they designed their AF camera bodies. Pentax and Nikon were both in favor of inclusive designing. I would think, however, that modern Canon DSLRs will handle older Canon AF lenses.
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