[mikesbike]

I think the x-t20 is more of a competitor to the KP. This new camera is a top model, so it competes with the K-1 (Because there is no K-3 II successor yet)

As a tool for photography, I don't think it compares favorably with the KP. Better of course for video, but so are most other makes of DSLR that cost far less than this Fuji. I do a video clip on rare occasion, and just for that my KP is good enough, as is my K-S2 for that matter. When I want to actually do some videography work, I much prefer a dedicated video camera, and at least 1-2 hours high-quality shooting capability.

This is a very nice Fuji camera, but there's no way I would considerate it for my needs. For those doing a lot of video clips and some stills, and would pay this price- it would be ok.

Essentially, I prefer an OVF. Then, there's no built-in flash. I like having one for a quick grab shot and/or for fill. I'll have to put up with that if I should also get a FF K-1, or perhaps its successor.

I notice the H-X1's classic shutter speed dial, which adjusts in full-stop jumps. I have my cameras set for 1/3 EV steps. Its native ISO is 200, where the KP's is 100, which suggests higher DR for the KP. The KP has a better on-body control layout, and it appears a more efficient control system. Then there's the fast, efficient Pentax Hyper System of operation. Then there's the use of classic legacy glass.

---------- Post added 02-17-18 at 03:27 PM ----------

.
Pentax KP vs Fuji X-H1 - I'll take the KP anyday!


The X-H1 still uses the funky Fuji 24.3MP APS-C X-Trans CMOS III Sensor. I've not had the best of luck with X-Trans sensors. Frequently I get "little wormies" show up in the fine details. Been a complaint for years about X-Trans sensors. I don't believe they've ever been able to correct it.


The wormies don't show up in an image with relatively smooth transitions (e.g. street, portraits, still life, skys) but take a photo with an X-Trans sensor with tons of fine detail and contrasty edges (like most of my landscapes have) and these ugly wormies come out in force.


I'll never buy another Fuji X camera...

And I prefer my KP greatly over one requiring periodic clean-up post-process due to its sensor!

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Last edited by mikesbike; 02-18-2018 at 01:59 AM.

[mee]

Theres software that corrects those effects which are minor...which Xtrans sensor with which firmware?




Yes, XT size is likely to remain similar...Not so sure XH is aimed at Dslr guys exclusively,its predominantly for advanced video,even though its a fair bit behind Pano and $$$ony...they just left the stills capability in there as well.Later this year the XT3 is likely to be at Photokina,it has a dedicated following that are eagerly awaiting.It wont have IBIS so i'm led to believe.

New article posted today.. Fujifilm interview: 'We want the X-H1 to be friendly for DSLR users': Digital Photography Review

Indeed as I thought.. its aimed more towards DSLR users.. designed ergonomically to appeal to them/us.

[surfar]

Yes,read that this morning.Linked from Fuji rumours....its a well rounded photo/video device,similar to Pentax DSLR sizes
Many on the Fuji forum have preordered...I buy a new body each year,so will wait till I see what RI have to offer?

[str8talk83]

I think there are a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to answering the "Which Camera is Best?" Question

-preference for lens system
-preference for features available to a particular system
-how important price/performance is

A lot of people love Fuji and most of the reports I have heard relate to liking the "feel" of shooting with their bodies and lenses. I've never personally owned a Fuji, so I can't really say how valid that is. I do shoot Sony FF mirrorless and I just can't justify buying into the Fuji APS-C system at a similar cost. I feel that it makes sense to spend similar money on the Sony a7 series and their lenses in the price bracket. My bias, however, is to choose image quality before things like ergonomics unless I hate the ergonomics completely.

There have been some valid points in this thread about camera size and ergonomics. As mirrorless has grown more popular, there is also an ever increasing demand for "pro grade" lenses. This means that fast aperture primes and zooms are coming out that are very large in size. I don't want to get into the technical details, but there are limitations as to how small a lens can be when you get to the normal range and longer. There are some ways to make smaller ultra wide and wide angle mirrorless lenses, but that about it. As the sizes for the lenses grow, the cameras are having to grow with them to maintain good ergonomics.

[surfar]

I think there are a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to answering the "Which Camera is Best?" Question

Of Course, and the one thats purchased is always the best...the trick is to buy as many as possible!

I just can't justify buying into the Fuji APS-C system

Theres plenty of models that are half price or less than the XH-1
OR
Seeing you are invested in $$$$ony, the A7iii was announced today...Bang for Buck$

[btnapa]

Same size, same weight, half the cost.
Discuss

I tried both at WPPI in Vegas today. I am a Pentax K1, K3 and K5IIs owner. It was the first time I tried the KP. The image quality is perhaps the best I have seen from an APSc sensor. The high ISO quality was the surprise. It simply has no equal. KP is compact and small but felt right in my hands. I got to try it with the 20-40 zoom lens and I loved the combo. I also tried my friend's XH-1. He was given one by Fuji to walk around and give them some feedback (he is a former Canon guy who went all Fuji last year).

I liked the feel of the Fuji too. I was not a big fan of EVFs but I did like the Fuji EVF. The image quality is so high, you feel like you are looking at an OVF! We know the Fuji shoots 4K so on that one point it wins big for being a "hybrid," multi-purpose still camera. But in just pure still image I think it is almost a draw with slight edge going to KP. I don't know. I am torn as both are fine image making machines. If price was a factor then the KP wins. For me an advanced flash system is a big factor. In that regard, Fuji has much better third party support. They both suffer from lack of third party lens support. Lots of pluses and minuses on both sides.

At WPPI Pentax has a 20x20 booth with lots of camera gear (first time they have brought so much gear) but hardly any foot traffic. On the other hand Fuji has a massive booth with tons of traffic and buzz, lots of Canon and Nikon converts to the Fuji system. So, who do you think has the edge in the long run?

[totsmuyco]

Fuji is more up to date and has more features. If you like it, go for it.

As for me, it ain't my stuff. I don't need a KP but the image quality that comes out from it makes it really tempting to get one.

[photoptimist]

For me, an unacceptable negative of Fuji is the retro-style labelled top-dial controls. It's a lot of awkward clicks to spin those dials from some set middle value of ISO or shutter speed over to the "A" setting and back.

I vastly prefer the modern user interface design of a mode dial (I love TAv and how few clicks it takes to get from P to M and back!!!) with easy-to-spin e-dials for adjusting the exposure values. I especially like the K-1's third e-dial (which I usually have set to ISO) although I'd prefer if it were easier to spin. Were it up to me, I'd design a camera with four dedicated e-dials for shutter time, aperture, ISO, and ±EV but for now I'll settle for three dials on the K-1.

[mikesbike]

For me, an unacceptable negative of Fuji is the retro-style labelled top-dial controls. It's a lot of awkward clicks to spin those dials from some set middle value of ISO or shutter speed over to the "A" setting and back.

I vastly prefer the modern user interface design of a mode dial (I love TAv and how few clicks it takes to get from P to M and back!!!) with easy-to-spin e-dials for adjusting the exposure values. I especially like the K-1's third e-dial (which I usually have set to ISO) although I'd prefer if it were easier to spin. Were it up to me, I'd design a camera with four dedicated e-dials for shutter time, aperture, ISO, and ±EV but for now I'll settle for three dials on the K-1.

Amen! The handling control-wise for the KP is head and shoulders above. And there is no electronic screen that is as true to reality as a high-quality OVF. The idea of retro seems appealing on the surface (pun intended), since all the info is right on the dial, but as far as handling, the KP's design is more efficient and more sophisticated for depth of adjustment, and even easier to see what you are doing. I spent years shooting with the original "retro", and I can say that modern designs, especially Pentax, have come a long way. I think the KP, and the K-1 too, have taken whatever positive aspects "Retro" offers, and integrated that into the modern technology to great effect. Appearance of the KP is reminiscent of the MZ/ZX 5 (n) of the 1990's, which was even then a "retro" design. But the KP is only so in general appearance. Its controls are far more advanced and efficient.

[RobA_Oz]

@btnapa, Would you mind citing some references for this statement? Are there any market statistics? My sense is that the Fuji MF is good, but I'm not aware of its relative market position now. Thanks.

I imagine that was based on an impression (which no doubt arose from marketing material!) rather than independent statistics. I haven't followed prices for the Fuji, but the last time I looked, the 645Z body was running at around half its initial selling price. That's the relative price point the 645D was at when the 645Z was announced. This is getting way off-topic, even though the thread was petering out, but it may be that the delay in Pentax 35FF lenses could be a result of new 645 lenses.

[btnapa]

For me, an unacceptable negative of Fuji is the retro-style labelled top-dial controls.

I spent some time at the Fuji booth. The cameras reminded me of the old film cameras. I initially did not like the dials but once I got used to them they became quite intuitive.

---------- Post added 02-28-18 at 05:35 PM ----------

@btnapa, Would you mind citing some references for this statement? Are there any market statistics? My sense is that the Fuji MF is good, but I'm not aware of its relative market position now. Thanks.

My conclusions are anecdotal. However, here is an observation from looking at the two booths (Pentax and Fuji) today. At the back of the Pentax booth they were demonstrating the 645Z. I went by and saw no one... not a single person attending to look at the demo of the 645Z. I walked by the Fuji booth 30-40 feet away. They were doing a GFX demo and I counted at least 20-25 people sitting there and watching the guy do his demo. BTW, I loved the Fuji APSc offerings but did not like the GFX that much.

As far as market position, I do not have stats but again I ran into an old Canon shooting friend who switched to Fuji last year and talked to two other pro shooters who where at the Fuji booth checking out the system. Both of the photographers were Canon shooters and were seriously thinking about switching to Fuji after they saw what the system can do for them vs. their existing DSLR system. As a matter of fact one of the two ladies who said she does lots of portrait work, walked over to Samy's booth and bought the 56mm f1.2 lens and an XT-2 and placed an order for the XH-1 and one or two other lenses! So their you have it. It is anecdotal but that is what I observed today.

[photoptimist]

I spent some time at the Fuji booth. The cameras reminded me of the old film cameras. I initially did not like the dials but once I got used to them they became quite intuitive.

Yes, they are intuitive and I lived with those kinds of top-plate dials for the first 20 years of my photography.

But they aren't as fast and flexible as the mode+e-dials combination. Having to spin two or three different dials each half a dozen clicks to change from Av to Tv or from P to M is a hassle. I also prefer having the dials under my index finger and thumb for easy spinning. Changing a top-plate dial with the camera at my eye was always more awkward.

But it it's clearly a personal choice whether one likes the old or the new interface style.

[Rondec]

I think we tend to like what we are used to. I am pretty used to two to three e dials for control of settings and that does feel pretty intuitive. I'm sure I could get used to the Fuji retro-style too, although it seems more limiting in some respects. As photoptomist says, e dials are very easy to spin (maybe a little too easy sometimes) as compared to a dial. If you are at f2 and want to get to f11, it doesn't take very long with a camera with an e dial, it feels like it would take longer with a dial...

[mikesbike]

I was very used to the old manual-camera dials. I could pick one up and shoot with it today with no adjustment period. What photoptimist is saying is the old retro dials and knobs are more fiddly, disruptive, and not as fast and efficient, nor as exacting in their settings as a modern design, especially a modern Pentax design.

[photoptimist]

I was very used to the old manual-camera dials. I could pick one up and shoot with it today with no adjustment period. What photoptimist is saying is the old retro dials and knobs are more fiddly, disruptive, and not as fast and efficient, nor as exacting in their settings as a modern design, especially a modern Pentax design.

Exactly!

And the labelled top-dial design does not extend well into age of high performance digital cameras. Labels worked back when ISO and exposure were limited to the smaller ranges found in film and with mechanical shutters. I notice, for example, that the X-H1 ISO dial does not go above 12800 and the shutter time dial is limited to 1/4000 to 1 second. A labelled dial for a higher performance camera like the K-1ii that can do ISO 100 to 819200 or 1/8000 to 30 seconds would have tiny illegible writing and such small clicks in the top dial that it would be too easy to jump two clicks.