[mikesbike]

Exactly!

And the labelled top-dial design does not extend well into age of high performance digital cameras. Labels worked back when ISO and exposure were limited to the smaller ranges found in film and with mechanical shutters. I notice, for example, that the X-H1 ISO dial does not go above 12800 and the shutter time dial is limited to 1/4000 to 1 second. A labelled dial for a higher performance camera like the K-1ii that can do ISO 100 to 819200 or 1/8000 to 30 seconds would have tiny illegible writing and such small clicks in the top dial that it would be too easy to jump two clicks.

Yes, indeed. There are very good reasons for camera designs to have gotten away from these traditional controls. Going back to them for reasons of sentimentality for yesteryear, and appealing to seeming simplicity, fails to address their shortcomings, and fails to recognize the actually greater simplicity of modern designs. As Rondec notes, the e-dials are easier and faster. Trying to cram even some of their capabilities onto a traditional top dial would be ergonomic chaos. And the well-designed visibility of the Fuji's top shutter speed dial needing to have full-stop jumps does not make it in todays more sophisticated world of fine-tunable fractional adjustments.

Add to that the Pentax Hyper System, using the e-dials and the green button, and we have a fast, efficient control system well ahead of the curve.

[btnapa]

There have been some valid points in this thread about camera size and ergonomics.

You are making excellent points. I wish you could have attended the recent WPPI show in Vegas.

I did attend and besides Pentax I wanted to check out Sony and Fuji. As a K1 and Panasonic GX8 owner, I wanted to see if I can switch to Sony or Fuji for a one system solution for mostly still work and occasional video work. I liked Sony especially the new A7III. It is a compact and capable camera. Where Sony falls short for me is the size of their fast (f1.4) primes in comparison to their bodies. Their slower primes are much smaller and more balanced on the A7 series bodies. Fuji on the other hand had smaller lenses and more balanced body lens combo. One of the drawbacks of the Fuji is the limitation of APSc sensor. I saw one particular print (24-36 or slightly bigger) on display which to me looked excellent and it was shot with the new XH-1. I also looked at prices for a dual body (one high end and one mid-range) along with a few fast primes and one or two zooms. In this comparison the Fuji came way ahead of Sony for overall cost.

After the show I was ready to switch to Fuji (I may still do that in the future) but for now I love my K1 and I have plenty of gear to get my still work done. If my 4K video work picks up, I may switch earlier. I like the idea of one system giving me both. Same body and the same set of lenses serving a dual purpose. Yes a dedicated video camera makes sense for long video clips (no overheating and other advantages) but for my type of occasional video work, it is done cinema style with lots of short clips which are assembled into the final product later.

[Franky2step]

Exactly!

And the labelled top-dial design does not extend well into age of high performance digital cameras. Labels worked back when ISO and exposure were limited to the smaller ranges found in film and with mechanical shutters. I notice, for example, that the X-H1 ISO dial does not go above 12800 and the shutter time dial is limited to 1/4000 to 1 second. A labelled dial for a higher performance camera like the K-1ii that can do ISO 100 to 819200 or 1/8000 to 30 seconds would have tiny illegible writing and such small clicks in the top dial that it would be too easy to jump two clicks.

You may want to check the comparison photo again, the X-H1 has a 1/8000th mechanical shutter PLUS 1/32,000th electronic shutter with the option of letting the camera pick mechanical or Electronic. Also, the ISO dial has a Hi setting which goes beyond 12800. How often do you shoot beyond ISO 6400?

[SSGGeezer]

You may want to check the comparison photo again, the X-H1 has a 1/8000th mechanical shutter PLUS 1/32,000th electronic shutter with the option of letting the camera pick mechanical or Electronic. Also, the ISO dial has a Hi setting which goes beyond 12800. How often do you shoot beyond ISO 6400?

Using my KP I have at least 300 at 12.8Kor higher out of 5400 images taken with the camera since new. I had a total of about 10 to 15 out of over 16,000 taken with my older K-50.
I got the images with the KP that the K-50 could not have.

[Rondec]

You may want to check the comparison photo again, the X-H1 has a 1/8000th mechanical shutter PLUS 1/32,000th electronic shutter with the option of letting the camera pick mechanical or Electronic. Also, the ISO dial has a Hi setting which goes beyond 12800. How often do you shoot beyond ISO 6400?

How much you use high iso (and how high you go) depends on what results you get from your camera. The KP is no slouch there and I imagine folks use it more. I never use higher than 4000 on my K3, I shoot at 12K and 25K all of the time on my K1s. A big performance difference there. I think the KP's high iso performance was a big draw to it.

[howieb101]

Well two big items are whether you like evf's and secondly x-trans.

I could live but not love a decent evf but I am just not a fan of x-trans. You do get funny smearing in high iso shots that don't look realistic from my experience.

[lotech]

I've little experience with Fuji, and I pre-own a XE2, the reason I picked it was the X-Trans sensor. In actual use I found the XE2 perform better than the K3 at high ISO, at 6400 the XE2 is about the same if not better than the K3 at 3200. The Fuji produced very clean image and becomes rough at ISO 12800 but still color correct, where the K3 always produce yellowish and even reddish image at the same ISO under Tungsten light, I took lot of low night shots so I can tell the difference, I know very few camera can perform well at that extreme. The reason I sold the Fuji was the bad ergonomic and menu design, I love the body and menu design of Pentax. Further more, there is near 1.5 stop difference in metering between the two I forgot which is which when mounted with the same uncoupled M42 lens.

[howieb101]

Well my experience with X-E1 which is meant to have better noise reduction, or. less than later cameras is very obvious smearing or artificial look in facial skin.

I'd prefer a Fujifilm camera with a Bayer sensor rather than x-trans.

I also find the film simulations a bit of a gimmick. I find Pentax colours more real although the white balance is a bit skewed to the cold side in general.

[lotech]

It is interesting that you feel that way, may be the XE2 is different. Overall I feel the Fuji gives cooler and smoother skin tone, or it has a default 'beauty mode' like cell phone ha ! where my K3 gives warmer tone, since I am using matching lenses on them I can't really tell the sensor difference, but for extreme low light I think Fuji is the winner. On the other hand, although the Fuji is mirrorless, I feel quite strong 'shutter shock', since it is thinner, lighter, without grip and too much front heavy I feel very tired to hold the camera steady, I don't see any good Fuji in term of ergonomic until the XTH. I like the tiny top LCD of it, the KP disappointed me without that, the KP also lacking the IR remote and downgraded the diopter adjust knob to a slider, I don't know how Pentax planned to position the KP, or it should be made better to replace the K3ii.

Well my experience with X-E1 which is meant to have better noise reduction, or. less than later cameras is very obvious smearing or artificial look in facial skin.

I'd prefer a Fujifilm camera with a Bayer sensor rather than x-trans.

I also find the film simulations a bit of a gimmick. I find Pentax colours more real although the white balance is a bit skewed to the cold side in general.

[Rondec]

It is interesting that you feel that way, may be the XE2 is different. Overall I feel the Fuji gives cooler and smoother skin tone, or it has a default 'beauty mode' like cell phone ha ! where my K3 gives warmer tone, since I am using matching lenses on them I can't really tell the sensor difference, but for extreme low light I think Fuji is the winner. On the other hand, although the Fuji is mirrorless, I feel quite strong 'shutter shock', since it is thinner, lighter, without grip and too much front heavy I feel very tired to hold the camera steady, I don't see any good Fuji in term of ergonomic until the XTH. I like the tiny top LCD of it, the KP disappointed me without that, the KP also lacking the IR remote and downgraded the diopter adjust knob to a slider, I don't know how Pentax planned to position the KP, or it should be made better to replace the K3ii.

The K-P definitely wasn't a K3 replacement, although it has significantly better high iso performance (close to the K-1's performance). Pentax was trying to release a smaller body that still had fairly good specs and would pair well with the limited lenses. At least that's what they said their reasoning was behind the K-P.

The K3 doesn't have as good high iso performance as most of the cameras mentioned here. I still get decent results up to iso 3200, but I don't usually go over that.

[Wheatfield]

Well two big items are whether you like evf's and secondly x-trans.

I could live but not love a decent evf but I am just not a fan of x-trans. You do get funny smearing in high iso shots that don't look realistic from my experience.

In general terms, that smearing is the fault of raw converters that aren’t doing a good job of decoding the X-trans file, and from my understanding, there is some baked in NR in the Fuji files. Weird plastic skin tones is a common complaint with Fuji.
I handled an X-H1 a while back and it’s quite a nice camera, but it is going to have some issues that will take a bit of getting used to, not least of which is the EVF. Fuji has introduced a “high performance” mode for the EVF which increases the refresh rate considerably. I believe the boost is from 60 to 100 FPS. I was able to look through the viewfinder with relative comfort when in the boosted refresh rate mode, but in regular mode it was just like my X-T1.
So use it is boost mode all the time would seem to be the answer. Well yes, but this boost mode comes at a price, that being much higher battery consumption, taking a camera with a rather short life into this really sucks territory.
One of the things I learned to do when I bought my X-T1 was adjust my shooting style into a battery preservation mode. I use the camera very much in a snap shooting mode where i don’t spend much time looking through the viewfinder, and I only have the viewfinder on when the camera is at eye level.
Part of this is because the X-T1 is, for me, a rapid eye strain and headache machine, but also because using the viewfinder extensively kills the battery.
I have gotten as few as 50 shots on a battery while working out how I had to use the camera in order to maximize battery life. With careful shooting, I get in the range of 250 exposures per battery.
Contrast this with my K3, which was routinely able to get in excess of a thousand images per battery, or the K1, which is much hungrier, but still turns in ~700 shots.
The Fujis are great cameras, with the caveat that the user must be comfortable with EVFs, but do be prepared to load up on extra batteries.
I travel off the grid every now and again, with Pentax I carry 7 extra batteries, and often use 4, sometimes 5. I like to have that buffer in the event I come across something that demands a lot of shooting. To get the same level of shooting volume with my Fuji, I would have to carry 20 batteries, and with the X-H1, I would likely need another half dozen.
If I was still shooting with the K3, add another 30% to those numbers.
I shot an event a couple of years ago with the X-T1 and X-Pro1 bodies. The X-Pro1 was never in EVF mode, I was using it’s lovely optical viewfinder for everything. I used one battery in the X-Pro1, five batteries in the X-T1 and that was that. I only had 6 batteries for the Fujis. In total I shot in the range of 1200 images over the course of 4 or 5 hours. For me it was a lot of shooting, but I was hired to get shots of everyone at the event, and everything was candid. It’snot A shooting method I am particularly comfortable with. I prefer a more methodical approach.

[sutherland]

I find Pentax colours more real although the white balance is a bit skewed to the cold side in general.

IMHO, Pentax/Ricoh gets an edge with Reds. Fuji does a great job with Greens.

[surfar]

I travel off the grid every now and again, with Pentax I carry 7 extra batteries, and often use 4, sometimes 5. I like to have that buffer in the event I come across something that demands a lot of shooting. To get the same level of shooting volume with my Fuji, I would have to carry 20 batteries, and with the X-H1, I would likely need another half dozen.

Yes, maybe....But many of the latest Fuji cameras have usb charging,so a solar charged battery pack can replenish a set of batteries while the in camera ones are being used.

---------- Post added 08-08-18 at 07:26 PM ----------

The X-Pro1 was never in EVF mode, I was using it’s lovely optical viewfinder for everything. I used one battery in the X-Pro1,

I like mine but do switch between OVF and EVF,depending on circumstance.

[Rondec]

Yes, maybe....But many of the latest Fuji cameras have usb charging,so a solar charged battery pack can replenish a set of batteries while the in camera ones are being used.

---------- Post added 08-08-18 at 07:26 PM ----------



I like mine but do switch between OVF and EVF,depending on circumstance.

You know that Wheatfield lives in Canada and solar power is a bit spotty there, depending on the day...

[MJKoski]

This question comes down to brand commitment to the system. Fuji constantly brings out new lenses and seems to update old models - both lenses and camera bodies. Ergonomics wise, X-T2 and X-H1 are no worse than KP which has lackluster add-on grip system with pieces that fit to no hand perfectly.

I see no reason to get KP instead of Fuji unless one has extensive selection of modern (enough) Pentax lenses with aperture automation. That, and/or Pixel-Shift which always requires extra care and proper tripod. Thus, lust for Pixel-Shift is better handled with K-1.