Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-04-2018, 01:20 AM   #1
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
BruceBanner's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,404
KP Video a lot worse than K-1?

Is it my imagination but using the same lenses and recording settings, does the KP just look a lot fuzzier in quality than the K-1? Ima do some more testing tomorrow but just wanted to put that out there in case others felt the same or I'm talking smack and that professional reviews have had the KP rated higher than that of the K-1 bla bla etc.

Bruce

03-04-2018, 01:27 AM   #2
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,913
Do some video tests of identical scenes, post the video results on YouTube, post the YT links here, then revisit this thread. We will then have the basis for a much more valid discussion.
03-04-2018, 01:40 AM   #3
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 51,584
QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Is it my imagination but using the same lenses and recording settings, does the KP just look a lot fuzzier in quality than the K-1? Ima do some more testing tomorrow but just wanted to put that out there in case others felt the same or I'm talking smack and that professional reviews have had the KP rated higher than that of the K-1 bla bla etc.

Bruce
Did you forget to turn off the SR?

They're quite similar in terms of video. The KP might actually show a little less noise thanks to the accelerator chip.

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:
03-04-2018, 02:18 AM   #4
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
BruceBanner's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,404
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Do some video tests of identical scenes, post the video results on YouTube, post the YT links here, then revisit this thread. We will then have the basis for a much more valid discussion.
I will when i get some time, hopefully tomorrow. This wasn't meant to be an opinion piece like I'm dead certain of this fact, more like that's what my initial impressions this afternoon have been. Just thought I'd put it out there in case there was a general consensus already reached by a few that this was also a fairly consistent find.

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Did you forget to turn off the SR?

They're quite similar in terms of video. The KP might actually show a little less noise thanks to the accelerator chip.
Well that's kinda what I thought too, yet first impressions seemed to be lacking that sharpness and cleaner image that I was seeing with the K-1.

I have a job next Sunday, it involves purely video recording, speeches that will last around the 40min mark so I will have to have both cameras running and accounting for the 25min max time limit. I'm testing a few different lenses and apertures, I was hoping to have the KP sit on a stationary tripod (Roll A) and have a wide angle lens attached to it, but really my DA 15mm f4 and Sigma 10-20mm look very fuzzy at all apertures, not a pleasant picture at all, in fact nothing really improves on the KP (haven't tested the same with the K-1 yet) till around the 50mm focal length, things start to look sharper and cleaner with less fuzz.

Is this a thing? Shooting video with wide angle lenses on dslr's tends to produce less than stella results?

Tried with SR on and Off. I will be monopodding with the B Roll (I think the K-1), I;ve had SR on for that purpose, I think it tends to help no? Is the SR on video an issue? Is there something I should know??

03-04-2018, 11:39 AM - 1 Like   #5
Pentaxian
richandfleur's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,788
QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote

Is this a thing? Shooting video with wide angle lenses on dslr's tends to produce less than stella results?
No, it’s a Pentax thing. Shooting any video tends to produce less than stella results 😂😉

Limit the amount of movement in the scene (both subject movement or camera movement where possible) to devote the available bit rate to capturing movement well.

In general Pentax video just doesn’t look particularly sharp. You can address this to some degree in post.

To be brutally honest, the Pentax video capabilities hasn’t really changed much since the K-01 and K-30 in 2012. There may be some differences between models, but they’re all in the same ballpark, and as good (or as bad) as each other.
03-04-2018, 12:42 PM - 1 Like   #6
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,199
QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Originally posted by BruceBanner

Is this a thing? Shooting video with wide angle lenses on dslr's tends to produce less than stella results?
No, it’s a Pentax thing. Shooting any video tends to produce less than stella results ����
imo any dslr has more difficulty with wide scenes than with a more narrow fov. Simply because there is more detail to capture. dslrs are at their best with a tele lens focused on a particular subject with background blur.

This said, the low pentax bitrate doesn't help.. So it's also a pentax thing, yes..

---------- Post added 03-04-18 at 08:44 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
but really my DA 15mm f4 and Sigma 10-20mm look very fuzzy at all apertures, not a pleasant picture at all
same experience here with the da15. best result i got is with the fa31 (on k3)
03-04-2018, 01:13 PM   #7
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
BruceBanner's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,404
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
No, it’s a Pentax thing. Shooting any video tends to produce less than stella results 😂😉

Limit the amount of movement in the scene (both subject movement or camera movement where possible) to devote the available bit rate to capturing movement well.

In general Pentax video just doesn’t look particularly sharp. You can address this to some degree in post.

To be brutally honest, the Pentax video capabilities hasn’t really changed much since the K-01 and K-30 in 2012. There may be some differences between models, but they’re all in the same ballpark, and as good (or as bad) as each other.
With the testing I was doing, the KP was tripodded with the DA15, Sigma 10-20, A 24, it wasn't until FA50mm that things got better.

QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
imo any dslr has more difficulty with wide scenes than with a more narrow fov. Simply because there is more detail to capture. dslrs are at their best with a tele lens focused on a particular subject with background blur.

This said, the low pentax bitrate doesn't help.. So it's also a pentax thing, yes..

---------- Post added 03-04-18 at 08:44 PM ----------



same experience here with the da15. best result i got is with the fa31 (on k3)
Good, someone else experiencing the same thing. Bit rate... yes that's the word I was looking for, it looks natively to have a low bitrate with the wider angle lens, switching to a 50mm etc and things look so much better.
I was really hoping my DA40mm XS would come to the rescue a compromise of such, sadly it didn't, in fact I felt the Pentax A 24mm might have looked better than the 40mm. Like I said, not till the 50mm went on did things look significantly better.

Seriously wondering now if I should just use my LG G5 phone recording capabilities for one of the rolls...

03-04-2018, 01:59 PM   #8
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,199
QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Seriously wondering now if I should just use my LG G5 phone recording capabilities for one of the rolls...
i don't know. there might be too much of a difference in output looks between the K1 and your phone.
the A 24 should do ok on the kp. My A28 is pretty good.

What will you be using on K1? I wonder what the 24 looks like on K1 vs the kp..
Maybe use K1 for stationary use & kp with 50 for close ups?














What lens will you be using with K1?
03-04-2018, 02:08 PM - 1 Like   #9
Pentaxian
richandfleur's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,788
QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
With the testing I was doing, the KP was tripodded with the DA15, Sigma 10-20, A 24, it wasn't until FA50mm that things got better.
The bitrate available is divided across all the movement in your scene. If you can control this, you can devote the bulk of it to your subject area.

The choice of lens and knowledge of the subject matter can help to isolate unnecessary movements.

In these situations, it does pay to ask if you need the aspects a DSLR is good for (narrow depth of field, specific interchangeable lenses, low light ability) or if a handicam/smaller sensor device etc would be more suited (easier to get more of the shot in focus, can record for hours straight, no heat issues).

In all cases, lighting and audio are your best friends
03-05-2018, 01:47 PM - 1 Like   #10
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
BruceBanner's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,404
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
i don't know. there might be too much of a difference in output looks between the K1 and your phone.
the A 24 should do ok on the kp. My A28 is pretty good.

What will you be using on K1? I wonder what the 24 looks like on K1 vs the kp..
Maybe use K1 for stationary use & kp with 50 for close ups?














What lens will you be using with K1?
That's what I thought, and also popped into my head when other suggested getting a dedicated camcorder for the event, I felt when cutting and editing A and B roll the contrast between the two camera systems would be off putting, at least if what I use has the same 'feel' then that's somewhat advantageous.

So i have two 50mm lenses, the FA50mm 1.5 and an old MF Pentax A 50mm 1.7. I also have a 100mm DFA 2.8 WR. I was either thinking of the B Roll also being a 50mm, so two cameras with 50mm's mounted, one tripodded with a narrower aperture which should hopefully mean minimal focus adjustment (none actually because the missus will be operating this), just small panning movements if need be (the tripod head does have a decent video panning head), the other 50mm on my k-1 on a monopod, shooting wider and stronger DoF contrasts etc as well as a different shooting angle.
I did also try the DFA 100mm yesterday, what I did notice is camera shake or movement is a little more obvious at that focal length, as well as having to narrow the aperture more. For example, with a 50mm attached I could keep focus pretty well at say f4-5, but with the DFA 100mm, f4-5 was hard to keep a pacing about subject in focus, I'd have to bump to f6-7 to get the same kinda DoF safety range...

I also thought about using the KP as the B Roll on the monopod, as being ASP-C sensor it's FoV will 'reach' better, however when doing this in practice I found the KP quite light on the monopod, I can't help feel the weight of the K-1 is advantageous in this regard.

QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
The bitrate available is divided across all the movement in your scene. If you can control this, you can devote the bulk of it to your subject area.

The choice of lens and knowledge of the subject matter can help to isolate unnecessary movements.

In these situations, it does pay to ask if you need the aspects a DSLR is good for (narrow depth of field, specific interchangeable lenses, low light ability) or if a handicam/smaller sensor device etc would be more suited (easier to get more of the shot in focus, can record for hours straight, no heat issues).

In all cases, lighting and audio are your best friends
Ah... yes this makes sense. Like a piece of knitting stretched over a larger frame, the holes between the fabric appear more obvious, stretch the same piece of knitting/patchwork over a smaller frame and the holes between the stitching are harder to notice... (eh poor metaphor but I think that's kinda what yer getting at).
03-06-2018, 08:09 AM   #11
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,199
QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I also thought about using the KP as the B Roll on the monopod, as being ASP-C sensor it's FoV will 'reach' better, however when doing this in practice I found the KP quite light on the monopod, I can't help feel the weight of the K-1 is advantageous in this regard.
Makes sense. If weight helps you, put the K1 on the monopod. Don't rely on SR. Make sure it is off!

I think the K1 with 50mm and Kp with the 24mm should get a similar IQ. Although it might be easier to get some reach with the 50 on the Kp. True. Avoid the 100mm.
Maybe you know already, but use 'muted' or natural with saturation/sharpness/contrast down.. & manage in post.

the proof wil be in the eating of the pudding. I look forward to comparing the output of both in the same environment..

Don't worry too much about IQ. What Richandfleur said: lighting & audio are your best friends..
If you have any control over that..
03-06-2018, 08:55 AM   #12
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
BruceBanner's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,404
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
Makes sense. If weight helps you, put the K1 on the monopod. Don't rely on SR. Make sure it is off!

I think the K1 with 50mm and Kp with the 24mm should get a similar IQ. Although it might be easier to get some reach with the 50 on the Kp. True. Avoid the 100mm.
Maybe you know already, but use 'muted' or natural with saturation/sharpness/contrast down.. & manage in post.

the proof wil be in the eating of the pudding. I look forward to comparing the output of both in the same environment..

Don't worry too much about IQ. What Richandfleur said: lighting & audio are your best friends..
If you have any control over that..
SR off for the tripodded KP, but surely you want some degree of SR on for the K-1 on a monopod? Does it not help when monopodding? I haven't really tested on and off in this regard, will have to do that tomorrow.

Yesterday I got a chance to go to the venue early and set things up, see how things would look and where I could best place my gear. I first focused on the KP and 24mm as you said, I could place this closer to the speaker, however still felt the bitrate was a bit naff due to the wide angle. I then pulled the tripod further back, raised it higher (so it would pass the heads of others comfortably) and mounted the 50mm, this I felt would have a higher quality to it even tho the shot is further back.
I will of course be closer with the K-1 and prolly with a 50mm also. Perhaps from an editing perspective it's nice to have two rolls with the same focal length? <shrugs>

And yes I was gonna switch both White Balances off Auto and onto something fixed, to give a consistency during editing. Does it matter if I set them both to say 'shade' or 'sunlight' etc? Or can the cameras still interpret those modes slightly? Should I pick a kelvin such as 5200k etc? And yes to natural/flat or whatever, both set to the same whatever I choose.

I'm a little vague about actual video specific settings tbh. With stills I quite often live in Av mode, set the ISO Auto Parameters to slow or something so that I don't drop below 1/80th etc (lens dependent of course) and have Auto ISO on. Then I just concentrate on framing, composition and DoF.
I think on my practice run I had the video set to Av mode as well, and I noticed when pushing the aperture to say f11-13 it went from white to blinking red. Not sure what this means... is it trying to say too much noise and grain/ISO is kicking in? Guess I have some more experimenting to do before Sunday.

EDIT: Playing around with the Button Customisation etc, I can see on Av mode for movie I can have rear dial for aperture and front dial for Exposure (-2 to +2), I think I need that because changing aperture does seem to change overall exposure, and if you want to change the DoF but keep a certain exposure then you'll need to be able to control that somehow.
I'm a little confused as to why TAv and Manual mode give a shutter speed for Movie mode.... like... huh?

Last edited by BruceBanner; 03-06-2018 at 09:09 AM.
03-06-2018, 09:16 AM   #13
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,199
QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
SR off for the tripodded KP, but surely you want some degree of SR on for the K-1 on a monopod?
No you don't :-) the furniture behind the speaker might go wobbling if he moves.
At least my experience.. Maybe someone else can advise.. Maybe do a test.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I first focused on the KP and 24mm as you said, I could place this closer to the speaker, however still felt the bitrate was a bit naff due to the wide angle. I then pulled the tripod further back, raised it higher (so it would pass the heads of others comfortably) and mounted the 50mm, this I felt would have a higher quality to it even tho the shot is further back.
My only issue is that with the 50mm on the Kp you might have to close down the lens too much (light..) in order to get everything in focus.. Maybe it is not an issue. Depends on the location and the scene you want.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
'm a little vague about actual video specific settings tbh. With stills I quite often live in Av mode, set the ISO Auto Parameters to slow or something so that I don't drop below 1/80th etc (lens dependent of course) and have Auto ISO on. Then I just concentrate on framing, composition and DoF.
Normally you'd set it to manual and shutter to 1/50 if shooting 25fps. 30 fps --- 1/60
Iso & aperture to a usuable setting according the light.
A bit more tricky for the K1 since you will be moving with it and lighting will change. In some instances i went auto for that.. Or Shutter priority.
If the light is stable, go manual.

Tune WB as per what you see as normal. The light in the room will dictate what you should use.
03-06-2018, 01:27 PM   #14
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,199
QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
EDIT: Playing around with the Button Customisation etc, I can see on Av mode for movie I can have rear dial for aperture and front dial for Exposure (-2 to +2), I think I need that because changing aperture does seem to change overall exposure, and if you want to change the DoF but keep a certain exposure then you'll need to be able to control that somehow.
I'm a little confused as to why TAv and Manual mode give a shutter speed for Movie mode.... like... huh?
I'd go manual to be honest. In reality you will not be playing around with aperture a lot. Rather keep things a bit constant not to change the pace of the video.
Maybe focus on interesting frames instead.
While recording there is a useful exposure bar on the screen to keep an eye on. If really needed just change exposure slightly..

See below video at 1.27sec. Watch his hands. This is what happens when not respecting the shutter rule (but instead auto setting or Av mode). (shutter: 1/50 when filming at 25fps)

Another very important thing (at least for me), make sure the framing of the KP is different enough from the K1. Nothing worse than editing frames that are similar (or not different enough)
Really, it cuts so difficult! That is why i tended to favour the 24mm on the K1 and the 50 on the kp (on the monopod) for closeups. the above video shows that.. go from wide to close up in editing.
It also allows you to take real close ups without being in the FOV of the stationary camera!

Putting 50 on both will show two "tele" frames. So, no, using two 50's doesn't add for me. Personally i'd put at least the 24 on the kp then. Even if IQ reduces a bit. The overall pace/audio is far more important.

Train you muscle memory. Still some time to go.. ;-)

ps Looks like i am the only person doing video here. Really, i know i'm not! Some people here are far more experienced than me..
03-06-2018, 01:28 PM   #15
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
BruceBanner's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,404
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
No you don't :-) the furniture behind the speaker might go wobbling if he moves.
At least my experience.. Maybe someone else can advise.. Maybe do a test.
Ah ok... I will.



QuoteOriginally posted by grispie Quote
My only issue is that with the 50mm on the Kp you might have to close down the lens too much (light..) in order to get everything in focus.. Maybe it is not an issue. Depends on the location and the scene you want.



Normally you'd set it to manual and shutter to 1/50 if shooting 25fps. 30 fps --- 1/60
Iso & aperture to a usuable setting according the light.
A bit more tricky for the K1 since you will be moving with it and lighting will change. In some instances i went auto for that.. Or Shutter priority.
If the light is stable, go manual.

Tune WB as per what you see as normal. The light in the room will dictate what you should use.
Lighting should stay pretty stable. There will be a projector being used from the speaker time to time (thus changing light). I believe I shall get a copy of the powerpoint presentation so that I can do cut edits if need be, but its nice to be able to change the exposure quickly to accommodate when the speaker is interacting with the projector or not.

I still don't fully understand the shutter process for filming but I understand the fps/shutter correlation that you have outlined so will abide by that (I think I'm 30fps for both cameras so will aim to have a fixed 1/60th). If I am in Av mode and have set rear dial for aperture and front dial for +/- exposure, how do I know what shutter speed I'm running at? To me it looks fine so I'm imagining it's doing a sensible thing by toggling to a fixed 1/50th for 25fps and 1/60th for 30fps settings?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
bla, camera, dslr, k-1, kp, kp video, lot, pentax, photography, results, video, video a lot
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
KP vs K-70 - to KP or not to KP, that is the question OldChE Pentax DSLR Discussion 28 11-02-2019 05:29 AM
Mirrorless sales collapsing worse than -30% in Japan the homecountry of mirrorless beholder3 Photographic Industry and Professionals 21 04-05-2017 04:58 AM
Why is K3II worse than Nikon D7200 on Studio scene Shanti Pentax K-3 & K-3 II 35 09-08-2015 05:02 AM
Is AIV really any worse than MIJ? DanielT74 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 52 10-02-2011 12:09 AM
Sports Their bite is worse than their bark Workingdog Post Your Photos! 4 12-07-2009 05:30 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:07 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top