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03-06-2018, 08:17 PM | #1 |
K-1, K-3ii, or Kp for Safari
Hi all, There are lots of great posts here on K-1 vs K-3, K-3 vs Kp and best gear for safari. I'd appreciated hearing thoughts from forum members that might be more specific and tie all of these ideas together. For background, I'll be going on safari with my wife this June. I already own quite a bit of Pentax gear including a K-50 and a very sharp copy of the Sigma 150-500. I'm a hobby-shooter and most enjoy shooting 6x6 B+W film, with wide-angle primes. I love the 'hi-def' look (sharpness and separation) characteristic of larger formats. I don't plan on taking any film gear with me on this trip due to weight and since I'm planning on buying a second Pentax digital body, it might be an opportunity to upgrade to full-frame. I've gone so far as to pre-order the K-1ii, but am having second thoughts. Some key considerations/what I'm thinking: - Buffer: The K-1's buffer is notoriously small. Shooting in crop mode is probably defeating the purpose of spending the extra $1K for FF. I'm usually very deliberate with my shooting (no burst mode on my Bronica), but can't say what might happen when I see a leopard feeding in my viewfinder. How are most people working around this? - OoC JPEG: Blasphemy I know, but computers are my least favorite part of photography (I have to use one for 12 hours/day at work) and shooting JPEG would also help with the buffering issue. Are most users happy with the JPEG's that come out-of-camera? I don't see a lot of discussion on this specific topic and I haven't noticed a way to filter online shots by OoC vs RAW. The K-1ii press release mentions they've done some adjustments on the colors. What do forum members think? - Shutter Shake (Morror Slap?): Lots of forum talk on this, however Pentax says the K-1 is more balanced than the K-3. Given the wide range of ISO options, I should have no problem keeping the shutter at 1/1000 at f8 on a sunny day. - Pixel-shift: I'll be shooting off the bean-bag. I see a lot of mixed results from review sites. Is this a relevant feature? Maybe just for wide shots and landscapes of baobab's? - Autofocus: Between these three, is there really much difference in practice? I'm admittedly not great with auto-focus and will need some practice using whichever body I end up with. - Size: I prefer smaller, all else constant (love my MX), but not bothered by a larger camera if it's to make room for more IQ. Kp over K-3ii? K-1 with FA 35/2.0 or DA 40/2.8 looks pretty awesome. - GPS: This would be awesome, maybe not a deal breaker. K-3ii over Kp? - Wifi: An underrated feature. Why wait days/weeks to share photos? Why does my family only get to look at photos taken with my iPhone? - Dual cards: maybe useful but, again, buffer will suffer. I usually have just purchased smaller cards to change throughout my trip. On past trips, I've even treated them like film. - The 150-500 should be long enough in either format. I've already contacted Sigma about upgrading the mount. If they can't update it, the decision will be between the K-3ii and Kp. I don't use long lenses much and prefer to spend on shorter primes. - Cost: cheaper is better, naturally. Going for the most expensive option wont cause the children to starve. It's really just if I can mentally justify the expense. Lastly, I'm currently living in Singapore so renting isn't an option. Thanks for reading such a long post. All thoughts welcome and appreciated. | |
03-06-2018, 08:43 PM | #2 |
Hello Scotto, On a safari I would expect many of your subjects will be of reasonable size, and you do have a good long lens, so I would be taking the K-1 to maximise image quality. I use a K-1 with the DFA 150-450 to shoot birds and do a lot of BIF and find the AF-C and buffer isn't a real handicap. Cheers, Terry | |
03-06-2018, 09:25 PM | #3 |
On a trip like this I usually work with two bodies. Things happen fast and you do not allways have time to change lenses. Sometimes it is just too dusty for doing this. It is also good to have back up. With only one body an occasional fault would ruin the trip.
Last edited by PePe; 03-06-2018 at 10:39 PM. | |
03-06-2018, 09:27 PM | #4 |
The KP was designed with the idea of an APS-C model which would deliver image quality as close as possible to the K-1, but in a compact body. It also has a control layout on the order of the K-1. it would thus be attractive to K-1 owners who also have some DA crop glass, and also for the practical advantages of APS-C for tele work. Having had numerous Pentax APS-C models, including the K-5 IIs, which produces very fine JPEG images, I can say the KP's JPEG engine is exceptional, the best I have experienced. Its buffer, however, is not up to the K-3 or certainly not K-5 capability. Since I rarely do burst shooting, and certainly not in RAW mode, this has not been a disadvantage for me. If I should be anticipating an event where I might do some extensive burst use, I would still likely take my K-5 IIs. | |
03-06-2018, 09:37 PM | #5 |
Unless you plan on machine gunning, this is not an issue. I've never filled the K-1 buffer. I have not shot a jpeg in 8 years. I don't know about 'lots', it seems to be a vocal few who have some issues. Despite actively trying I cannot reproduce any mirror shock on my K-1 I only use it on tripod for the once in a lifetime landscape shot. It's useful, but not something that is critical one way or the other. K-1 is better than the K-3II, I've never tried a KP. Regardless, unless you are shooting birds in flight they are all good enough. K-1 is going to be noticeably bigger and heavier Never leave home without it, would not own a camera that doesn't have it. Absolute must have. IMHO Never used it. But then I never shoot jpeg so not really useful for me. If you are taking a laptop or tablet just transfer and upload. I don't think the Pentax implementation is all that useful. IMHO I just use the second slot to hold my spare card. Rarely needed it. But if you are on safari might be useful to not have to swap cards during the day. Yep. Of course. Personally I would get the K-1 and put the 150-500 on the k-50 and carry both. Put something like the 24-70 or 28-105 on the k-1 and the long lens on the k-50. I will also say that I would never go on such a trip without two bodies and at least one spare lens. No do overs on trips of a lifetime. | |
03-06-2018, 09:54 PM | #6 |
---------- Post added 03-06-18 at 23:14 ---------- this might be helpful to review K3 vs K3 ii for wildlife - Page 3 - PentaxForums.com __________________ now some questions: where are you going and what are you doing? is this a safari with a private vehicle and driver and the two of you or are you sharing a private vehicle, driver/guide and others? will you be in the vehicle all of the time or on a walking/lake/river tour all of that info could change advice as what to take and use ___________________________________________ all I can tell you is about my own experience in 2016 and our plans for a return trip in 2019 in 2016 I had a K 5 II and primarily a Tamron AF 70-300mm F/4-5.6 LD Tele-Macro [1:2] (Model 772D) I had other lens but used the Tamron 95 % of the time. i also had a Nikon coolpix p610 as back up and close up option the animals ranged from just outside of the vehicle to " too far away " we were in a expanded Toyota SUV with just the driver/guide and us. It had a pop up roof and I spent 90 % of the time standing up photographing out of the top of the vehicle using a bean bag for support with the engine off. we did not need to pander to anyone else's desire and had plenty of room we did some photography on foot near a hippo pond and picnic area where we did find lions but not close to us I found no need for a tripod or monopod nor flash. I had the add on Pentax O-GPS 1 for GPS and used it occasionally at a minimum, you want a back up along with your primary camera. You want to be able to have different types of lenses so all you have to do is reach for the other camera and be able to go from your longest lens to your lens designed for close up shots. weight isn't going to make a difference once you are there because you will have your stuff with you in the vehicle and won't be going long distance walking with it. GPS is not essential but if you want to be able to pin point exactly well that is your choice __________________________ for our 2019 trip, I have upgraded my equipment and will be taking a K 3 and K 3 II along with lenses chose from this list: SMC Pentax DA 21mm F3.2 Limited 49/43 F Kino Precision Japan Kiron 28mm F2 MC P/KA prime 55 F SMC Pentax-DA 40mm F2.8 XS 27 f SMC Pentax-DA 1.8 50 mm prime 52 f SMC Pentax-D FA 2.8 100 mm macro prime 49 f SMC DA * 300mm F 4 ED (IF ) SDM 77 f _________________________ ZOOMS HD Pentax DA 3.5-5.6 16 - 85 mm wr 72 f HD Pentax-D FA* 70-200mm F2.8 ED DC AW 77 f HD Pentax-D FA 4.5 - 5.6 150-450mm ED DC AW 86 f ___________________________ HD Pentax -DA af rear converter 1.4 AW __________________________ Pentax O-GPS1[COLOR="Silver"] Last edited by aslyfox; 03-06-2018 at 10:22 PM. | |
03-06-2018, 10:58 PM | #8 |
Thanks for the thoughtful and very quick replies, so far. @jatrax, the point-by-point is really helpful. Especially your experience with buffer, shutter-shake, auto-focus, pixel-shift and GPS. I'll keep searching for the elusive JPEG shooter. @tduell, PePe, mikesbike - I'll also bring the K-50 as a second cam and have quite lenses to choose from in the 135mm and shorter range. @Asleyfox, We'll be in northern Tanzania in a private vehicle. Most of our time will be in-vehicle (Serengeti), with a walk or 2 where available (Ngorongoro Crater). I'll probably pack a bit less glass than your list but also plan to bring a few zooms and a couple of wider primes. I'll probably bring a tripod for low light landscapes and a beanbag for shooting the heavy zooms out of the open roof. If I can't reach it with the 500, I'll accept that it just wasn't meant to be photographed. | |
03-07-2018, 01:05 AM - 1 Like | #9 |
@Sandy Hancock, Some great shots there. I may ask you to do my processing :P No doubt the whole Pentax range is more than "sufficient". I'm not too worried about range with the massive sigma. I noticed only one of your brother's shots were at full 300mm zoom. | |
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03-07-2018, 01:23 AM - 1 Like | #10 |
Thanks for the thoughtful and very quick replies, so far. . . . @Asleyfox, We'll be in northern Tanzania in a private vehicle. Most of our time will be in-vehicle (Serengeti), with a walk or 2 where available (Ngorongoro Crater). I'll probably pack a bit less glass than your list but also plan to bring a few zooms and a couple of wider primes. I'll probably bring a tripod for low light landscapes and a beanbag for shooting the heavy zooms out of the open roof. If I can't reach it with the 500, I'll accept that it just wasn't meant to be photographed. in 2019, we fly into Arusha, drive to Ngorongoro Crater, Serengeti, then fly to Selous Game Reserve and then head home PM me if you want details of where we stayed in 2016 or any other details or details of our planned trip __________________________ check with your organizer, your guide should have bean bags available if not, bring empty and fill with materials in country. If you have a jacket or back pack that can be used to help gain height or as padding be sure to have the guide turn off the engine if possible He may have other equipment as well such as binoculars. we brought small dollar store or clearance items for gifts/trade - mirrors, small ball globes to give to children and/or show where we were from, etc. ___________________________________________________________________________ you might want to consider this thread: Moman Mini Tripod - Greatest $30 Purchase in Last 5 Years! - PentaxForums.com I plan on taking mine in case I can use it on the top of the stopped vehicle or else where _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ your guide is your expert, trust him and follow his instructions to a T however, keep your eyes open, head on a swizzle, and hearing active we saw a group of guides and tourists setting up for breakfast at the hippo pool/picnic ground in the crater who did not see the lion behind them. we were further up the pool towards the tree and rest rooms, we, tourists and guides all were yelling at them and finally they turned around and saw it your 500 should be plenty, the biggest I had then was the 300mm of the Tamron you will have a fantastic time, make sure you take the time to look and then try photograph the sights, smells, sounds and people you will meet will be fantastic people you photograph may want something in exchange research the trip, customs and info about what you expect to see _________________________________________________ be advised that outside the US carry on regulations will change this might help https://travel-made-simple.com/carry-on-size-chart/ __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I will decide closer to the trip what I will haul to Tanzania, but I just listed the possibilities in my first post Last edited by aslyfox; 03-07-2018 at 01:52 AM. | |
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03-07-2018, 01:46 AM | #11 |
I went on safari recently with a K3 and da55-300. My experience was that 55-300 was long enough (thus on apsc) to be comfortable. I would have preferred a bit better high iso handling. I'd take the Kp with a tele (for its iso and faster AF) and the K1 with a landscape lens.. my 2cents. definitely 2 bodies.. | |
03-07-2018, 01:51 AM | #12 |
I haven't read all the above, so apologies if I'm repeating stuff already said, but I'd definitely take 2 cameras - the frustration of having oe fail if that's all you've got would be unbearable - and two cameras that use the same battery, so swapping over if one runs out is possible, and two cameras with two card slots as backup. APS-C gives better reach for you telephotos (450mm on FF is often not enough for birds), better fps for action - and the pixel density of recent APS-C is higher, so that it's better than crop mode in FF. OTOH - the K-1 is tops for IQ for wider scenes, moderate telephoto and dynamic range in difficult lighting conditions. GPS is also useful when plotting your shots. Taking all into account, it would be a K-1 and K-3ii would be optimal for me.
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03-07-2018, 02:49 AM | #13 |
My experience on safari is with the K-5 (Zambia, Zimbabwe, Namibia, South Africa), K-3 (Madagascar, South Africa), and K-1 (South Africa) - have never held the KP. - Buffer: The K-1's buffer is notoriously small. Shooting in crop mode is probably defeating the purpose of spending the extra $1K for FF. I'm usually very deliberate with my shooting (no burst mode on my Bronica), but can't say what might happen when I see a leopard feeding in my viewfinder. How are most people working around this? - OoC JPEG: Blasphemy I know, but computers are my least favorite part of photography (I have to use one for 12 hours/day at work) and shooting JPEG would also help with the buffering issue. Are most users happy with the JPEG's that come out-of-camera? I don't see a lot of discussion on this specific topic and I haven't noticed a way to filter online shots by OoC vs RAW. The K-1ii press release mentions they've done some adjustments on the colors. What do forum members think? From what I have seen the KP is not that far behind the K-1 (although the K-1ii might change that!) and is probably a good candidate if you want to keep the size down. Some can't live without. I think of it as nice to have and use it because I have it. Definitely not a dealbreaker for me. Especially on foot the 300 can feel a bit short. Your 500 should work well for that. In a vehicle I find 300 to be sufficient most of the time, even on FF. Actually, 150 on APS-C might feel a bit tight at times... I still use my old DA55-300, even on the K-1 (very moderate vignetting on the long end). I'd love to have something longer, but especially for walking I'm not too keen on the huge lenses. Apart from that my top tip is to get out the bed in the morning. Be in the vehicle when the curfew is lifted, get going as soon as is allowed. So many of our most memorable safari moments have been just around sunrise. More action, less people (where that is an issue). If they can't serve breakfast before sunrise I'd skip breakfast. Bring something to eat in the car instead. As for gear I go light. Last trip I brought the K-1 with DFA28-105, DA55-300, FA43, and A20, plus a Ricoh GR so I don't have to remove the 55-300 while driving/walking. The primes I use only for "special needs". When travelling I mostly use the zooms. (At home I always use primes.) The main thing, though, is to enjoy the trip! Don't see it only through the lens. Be there! | |
03-07-2018, 02:58 AM | #14 |
I would stay with APS-C but K3 or KP rather than K50
I never handled a K1 save a sample model inside a photo shop. Thus I wont comment about using the K1 for an african safari. But I have been to north Tanzania in september 2016: Serengeti, Ngorongoro, Grumeti river and Olduvaļ gorge, Manyara lake and Tarangire. I was traveling with my son and daughter. We had a stretched Toyota 4x4 with a private driver/guide for the three of us, and spent most of the time standing inside the car under the popping roof. We had a few walks with Masaļ warriors in the Olduvaļ gorge and with rangers at Grumeti river. September was the end of dry season, hence the grass was low, which made it easier to see the wildlife, and there was plenty of light. Wildlife was as well close to the car (lions having a nap in the shade alongside our car or even below the next car, elephants or gnus crossing the road alongside our car, hippo bathing in a nearby pond) as very far away. My son and I had a K3. My daughter had borrowed my K30 (same camera as K50). My son and I mainly used the HD DA55-300 (the 2015 version with screwdriven AF), completed by one wider zooms (DA 18-135 for me, DA 17-70 for my son). I also had in my bag a high end compact (Fuji X10) as my second camera, which allowed me to shoot snapshots of close wildlife when the 55-300 was too narrow and I had no time to switch lenses. The only prime I used was DA35 f2.4 for low light landscapes, but it proved almost useless (much too wide) for wildlife nightshots. On K30, my daughter used a cheap all plastic lens, FA 100-300 f4.7-5.8, that I had since the film era and which did the job. She used a high end compact (Panasonic LF1) when she needed to go wider. My son shot raw only and PP in DXO, I shot mostly JPEG (with Pentax bright or landscape default JPEG settings), saving the raw (DNG) when I thought I might not be happy with the JPEG (high contrast or backlit scenes for instance), and PP in Lightroom, my daughter shot only JPEG and PP in Picasa (she is a software developer and doesnt want to spend much time in PP). With our Pentax gear, we mostly shot in T-Av mode , around 1/800-1/1000 at f6.3-f8 (depth of field is shallow on focal length longer than 100mm, and you dont want only the eye to be in focus). We didnt carry any tripod nor beanbag, shooting handheld with the DA55-300 and FA100-300, which are not heavy and rather compact. Our experience was that we needed the driver not only to stop the car, but also the engine, otherwise there was too much shake and vibrations to steady our framing and get sharp shots. If you can afford it, I would recommand to upgrade from K50 to KP or K3, mainly for much improved AF:
A link to a sample of my son's photography; many more in free access if you browse his flickr gallery: A link to a sample from my daughter flickr gallery. As it is not BB-code, if it doesnt work, her user name is Caroline Bousquet and her pseudo Ya Pompon. Feel free to browse. IMGP0982 | Tanzanie | Ya Pompon | Flickr My last tip is to train a few times before the trip: you wont have time to fiddle with the menus and settings during the safaris, it must be automatic so that you can concentrate on the wildlife and the framing. | |
03-07-2018, 04:37 AM | #15 |
Good points. Yep, East Africa is very dusty. Lots of fine, red dust that gets in everywhere. You don't want to change lenses unnecessarily. TAv mode is immensely useful, especially when light is failing. I tend to stay at 1/500 and f8-f11 when light is good, opening up and slowing down as needed when light fades. One more thing; don't underestimate the increase in high-ISO IQ on the KP/K-1 over the K-3. I find the K-1 quite usable at ISO 25,600. | |
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